Return-Path: Received: from mail-bk0-f41.google.com ([209.85.214.41] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4606748 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 18:17:10 +0100 Received: by bkbzx1 with SMTP id zx1so4392972bkb.28 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:22:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=C7YmTmhxvBdYaP0RKBpSlF1Xo7FNtxv+2xugLeYHghw=; b=XxRNXHd3Gzp4cdTHNjHTzl7A3tU1e7Hw26/JAfk+MXxWwDo0R0Qjtfhv2yxQrlqHsQ Cvi95egVtrGdq9hVQwWrbwM/e/VEshBc0TRGN22ckey2Vcr563F4btW/0V77fBc/sNOa eQFC5VTBT/pKtyP/2r6aBaY7pscX/DANQobNA= Received: by 10.204.153.199 with SMTP id l7mr7541550bkw.88.1327512167229; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:22:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.100.74 with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:22:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Teddy Gage Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 12:22:06 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] The Future of the Mac Pro in Video Post To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175d075e29a87d04b75d8377 --0015175d075e29a87d04b75d8377 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > they offer great value for money. no they don't. Current gen Mac mini = $762 on amazon - 4GB RAM (about the minimum you'd need for any kind of real AE work) - 2.5GHz DUAL-core Intel Core i5 - AMD Radeon HD 6630M graphics processor with 256MB of GDDR5 memory - 500 gb hdd Current gen PC desktop configured for around $770 - 8 GB RAM - 3.3 GHz QUAD core i5 - AMD radeon 6770 - 1 TB drive http://ironsidecomputers.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_13&products_id=21 You get literally 2x the computing power (2x the CPUs, at a faster speed and 2x RAM) for the same price This is why I've never seen a mac render farm. I'm sure they exist, but in terms of the ratio of price / power macs will never be competitive for large scale computer processing. It's just a fact. On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 11:57 PM, Chris Zwar wrote: > Although I wasn't seriously suggesting the comparison - and Bob is correct > that the new versions of AE limit the installs of AE render so you'd need > to buy more licenses - I will repeat that the current Mac Minis have a > current and very capable processor in them. The Core 2 Duo that I > mentioned was in relation to my 3+ year old iMac. A new mac mini has a > mobile i5 in it (or an i7 if you pay a premium) and it could easily run 2 > instances of AE render. No, you wouldn't run it in multi-processor mode, > you'd run two separate instances of AE render in single processor mode and > they'd render different parts of your composition. That's what Deadline > does - it automatically splits your render into sections (eg 1 second) and > distributes them amongst the machines on the render farm. The processors > aren't exactly the Xeon class but they're not obsolete and they offer great > value for money. That's why the idea is interesting - one monster machine > or an iMac with 4 mac minis for the same price... > > The idea of a render farm - even if it's only 4 mac minis - is that > they're just render machines. They wouldn't even need a keyboard or mouse, > let alone a monitor. The only software they'd run would be deadline, which > would be executing the AE render engine in the same way that Lloyd's BG > render script does. They don't need full installs of After Effects. > > But there's all sorts of other things to take into account, such as having > to adapt your entire workflow to image sequences. I didn't exactly do the > sums or the prices accurately. But they are indicative. > > As I said - it's just a thought experiment. It highlights the difference > in price between a consumer desktop and a professional desktop, and that > I've grown to like render farms :-) > > > -Chris > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Balint [mailto:greg@delrazor.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 01:46 PM > To: 'After Effects Mail List' > Subject: Re: [AE] The Future of the Mac Pro in Video Post > > Can a dual core Mac mini run on both cores? Doesn't that bog the system > down to a stand-still? Considering a while ago when I had a dual core pc > and could only run one core in AE Mp settings, does deadline just run a > streamlined OS completely just for rendering? > > Also, today's 12 core systems are 12 faster cores, with smaller > architecture and faster busses and better memory controllers. 12 cores in > one box vs 8 cores split up across core 2 duos would be no contest. The 12 > core would probably beat it by 2x the speed, even though it only has 1/3 > more processors. > > I like the idea of having a dedicated farm for rendering though. That > would be a nice alternative to faster renders; the fact that you could > continue to work on a dedicated station while your renders to off and > finish on the network. > > > On this small topic, I know it's been asked before, but does anyone have > an idea if there are good modern AE benchmark project files out there that > stress the Mp setup and RAM and can be measured by speed of render? I'd > love to have statistics like Cinebench provides and 3dfluff archives at > cbscores.com > > Maybe we can put one together as a list, and make sure we find processor > intensive plugin actions, then have a second render that relies more on RAM > (time /echo effects maybe?) > > > ////Greg Balint > ///Art Director / Motion Graphics Designer > delRAZOR.com/ > > On Jan 24, 2012, at 9:20 PM, "Chris Zwar" wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Jim Lang > wrote: > >> Does AE work decently on a mini? > > > > From: Teddy Gage [mailto:teddygage@gmail.com] > > I think it depends on your definition of "decently," and of course, the > > project. Could you mock up a few quick titles? Sure. Would you be able to > > render a 1080p project with 5 million+ particles and a mess of 3D layers > > and depth of field? probably not. > > > > > > Actually I respectfully disagree. Mac Minis come with a dual-core i5 > (i5 is what's in an iMac), if you give them enough ram they'll run After > Effects just fine. My home machine is an iMac that's just over 3 years > old, it has 4gb ram and a Core 2 Duo in it. It runs AE v5 without any > problems and I've done a lot of high end jobs with it - it's less powerful > than a current mac mini and is due to be replaced but it can still do > anything I want it to (just slowly). > > > > Here's a thought experiment: > > > > If you were to buy a high-end, 12-core Mac Pro and stick 24 GB ram in > it, the Apple Store will happily charge you $6000 for it. > > > > For the same $6000, you could buy a 27" quad-core iMac with 16GB ram, > and 4 dual-core Mac Minis with 8GB ram. If you use the change to buy > Deadline network rendering software, you've got yourself a nice iMac > workstation and a 4 machine render farm. With dual cores and 8 GB ram, > each mac mini can have 2 instances of AE render running at the same time, > so you've got 8 render engines at your disposal. > > > > Would such a setup be faster than a single 12-core Mac Pro? I don't > know. But it's worth thinking about... > > > > > > -Chris > > > > > > > > > > +---End of message---+ > > To unsubscribe send any message to > > > > +---End of message---+ > To unsubscribe send any message to > > > > > +---End of message---+ > To unsubscribe send any message to > -- Animator & Editor www.teddygage.com Brooklyn --0015175d075e29a87d04b75d8377 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > they offer great value for money.

no they don't.

Cu= rrent gen Mac mini =3D $762 on amazon

- 4GB RAM (about the minimum y= ou'd need for any kind of real AE work)
- 2.5GHz DUAL-core Intel Cor= e i5
- AMD Radeon HD 6630M graphics processor with 256MB of GDDR5 memory
- 50= 0 gb hdd

Current gen PC desktop configured for around $770

- = 8 GB RAM
- 3.3 GHz QUAD core i5
- AMD radeon 6770
- 1 TB drive

http://ironsidecomputers.com/ind= ex.php?main_page=3Dproduct_info&cPath=3D3_13&products_id=3D21
You get literally 2x the computing power (2x the CPUs, at a faster sp= eed and 2x RAM) for the same price

This is why I've never seen a mac render farm. I'm sure they ex= ist, but in terms of the ratio of price / power macs will never be competit= ive for large scale computer processing.

It's just a fact.

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 11:57 PM, Chris Zwar= <chris@chriszw= ar.com> wrote:
Although I wasn't seriously suggesting the comparison - and Bob is corr= ect that the new versions of AE limit the installs of AE render so you'= d need to buy more licenses - I will repeat that the current Mac Minis have= a current and very capable processor in them. =A0The Core 2 Duo that I men= tioned was in relation to my 3+ year old iMac. =A0A new mac mini has a mobi= le i5 in it (or an i7 if you pay a premium) and it could easily run 2 insta= nces of AE render. =A0No, you wouldn't run it in multi-processor mode, = you'd run two separate instances of AE render in single processor mode = and they'd render different parts of your composition. =A0That's wh= at Deadline does - it automatically splits your render into sections (eg 1 = second) and distributes them amongst the machines on the render farm. =A0Th= e processors aren't exactly the Xeon class but they're not obsolete= and they offer great value for money. =A0That's why the idea is intere= sting - one monster machine or an iMac with 4 mac minis for the same price.= ..

The idea of a render farm - even if it's only 4 mac minis - is that the= y're just render machines. =A0They wouldn't even need a keyboard or= mouse, let alone a monitor. =A0The only software they'd run would be d= eadline, which would be executing the AE render engine in the same way that= Lloyd's BG render script does. =A0They don't need full installs of= After Effects.

But there's all sorts of other things to take into account, such as hav= ing to adapt your entire workflow to image sequences. =A0I didn't exact= ly do the sums or the prices accurately. =A0But they are indicative.

As I said - it's just a thought experiment. =A0It highlights the differ= ence in price between a consumer desktop and a professional desktop, and th= at I've grown to like render farms :-)


-Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Balint [mailto:greg@delrazo= r.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 01:46 PM
To: 'After Effects Mail List'
Subject: Re: [AE] The Future of the Mac Pro in Video Post

Can a dual core Mac mini run = on both cores? Doesn't that bog the system down to a stand-still? =A0Co= nsidering a while ago when I had a dual core pc and could only run one core= in AE Mp settings, does deadline just run a streamlined OS completely just= for rendering?

Also, today's 12 core systems are 12 faster cores, with smaller archite= cture and faster busses and better memory controllers. =A012 cores in one b= ox vs 8 cores split up across core 2 duos would be no contest. The 12 core = would probably beat it by 2x the speed, even though it only has 1/3 more pr= ocessors.

I like the idea of having a dedicated farm for rendering though. That would= be a nice alternative to faster renders; the fact that you could continue = to work on a dedicated station while your renders to off and finish on the = network.


On this small topic, I know it's been asked before, but does anyone hav= e an idea if there are good modern AE benchmark project files out there tha= t stress the Mp setup and RAM and can be measured by speed of render? =A0I&= #39;d love to have statistics like Cinebench provides and 3dfluff archives = at cbscores.com

Maybe we can put one together as a list, and make sure we find processor in= tensive plugin actions, then have a second render that relies more on RAM (= time /echo effects maybe?)


////Greg Balint
///Art Director / Motion Graphics Designer
delRAZOR.com/

On Jan 24, 2012, at 9:20 PM, "Chris Zwar" <chris@chriszwar.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Jim Lang <james.c.lang@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Does AE work decently on a mini?
>
> From: Teddy Gage [mailto:teddyg= age@gmail.com]
> I think it depends on your definition of "decently," and of = course, the
> project. Could you mock up a few quick titles? Sure. Would you be able= to
> render a 1080p project with 5 million+ particles and a mess of 3D laye= rs
> and depth of field? probably not.
>
>
> Actually I respectfully disagree. =A0Mac Minis come with a dual-core i= 5 (i5 is what's in an iMac), if you give them enough ram they'll ru= n After Effects just fine. =A0My home machine is an iMac that's just ov= er 3 years old, it has 4gb ram and a Core 2 Duo in it. =A0It runs AE v5 wit= hout any problems and I've done a lot of high end jobs with it - it'= ;s less powerful than a current mac mini and is due to be replaced but it c= an still do anything I want it to (just slowly).
>
> Here's a thought experiment:
>
> If you were to buy a high-end, 12-core Mac Pro and stick 24 GB ram in = it, the Apple Store will happily charge you $6000 for it.
>
> For the same $6000, you could buy a 27" quad-core iMac with 16GB = ram, and 4 dual-core Mac Minis with 8GB ram. =A0If you use the change to bu= y Deadline network rendering software, you've got yourself a nice iMac = workstation and a 4 machine render farm. =A0With dual cores and 8 GB ram, e= ach mac mini can have 2 instances of AE render running at the same time, so= you've got 8 render engines at your disposal.
>
> Would such a setup be faster than a single 12-core Mac Pro? =A0I don&#= 39;t know. =A0But it's worth thinking about...
>
>
> -Chris
>
>
>
>
> +---End of message---+
> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>
>

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--
Animator & Editor
www.teddygage.com
Brooklyn

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