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[71.63.186.29]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x18sm12575438ibi.2.2012.02.16.13.46.25 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:46:26 -0800 (PST) From: Carey Dissmore Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B32F2C42-66ED-48AA-858D-294D95CC33BB" Subject: Re: [AE] 720 or 1080 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 15:46:24 -0600 In-Reply-To: To: "After Effects Mail List" References: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmltdyk7mZsW+vOgqrPbMgGsM1+HIPImWWiCS4Q62riO31Ien5QmCgA9/rO9R0Qc8f1MhjK --Apple-Mail=_B32F2C42-66ED-48AA-858D-294D95CC33BB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii LOL, managed to avoid the spit-take! Look, I'm a quality freak. Whatever I do, I want to do the best it can = be done, always creating and preserving the highest video and audio = quality from acquisition-to-master and from master-to-deliverable, = within the target specs of the job. In my analog beginnings in this = business you wouldn't believe the hoops I would jump through for a bump = in quality.=20 My quality freak-ish-ness nowadays translates to the principles of good, = intelligent (non-wasteful) workflows. I believe in the proven concept of = over-sampling, but often the budgets, projects and crews I'm working = with do not shoot resolutions higher than 1080p. Rarely I get a 4K-shot = RED job to "finish" in 1080p, but enjoy it when I do.=20 But I believe strongly in doing all you can to work in what I think will = remain a dominant standard for mastering (and deliverables) for a good = long time. That's 1080p. The fact that a client may want a smaller = deliverable today is not enough to sway me (very often) to throw away = that resolution at the start of the project. Rather, I'll produce it = 1080p and deliver a 720p and enjoy the benefits of oversampling (for = that deliverable) but also have that 1080p master and raw footage to = draw upon in case there's a future higher quality use.=20 As far as low-data rate green screen keys, sure--I've seen it = done....and I've even pulled them myself. Doesn't mean I want to. When I = work with XDCAM footage at 35mbit vs. at, say 220mbit 422 recorded by a = nano-flash one of my DPs uses, the differences are more readily apparent = in the keying than even the viewing of straight video. The stuff just = eye-dropper-keys so freaking well without nearly as much choking, = fiddling, etc. BTW as you crank up the data rate you do see diminishing = returns once you get over about 120-130mbit on XDCam 422 but it's still = interesting to compare. I've settled on 140 long-GOP for interviews and = b-roll and 220 I-frame for keying an vfx. Carey On Feb 16, 2012, at 10:39 AM, Dave Bittner wrote: > Another factor to consider is whether or not you're dealing with a = fixed data rate at any point in the acquisition or delivery phases.=20 >=20 > For example, much of the in-house acquisition with do is shot with a = Sony EX3. We chose that model as our default camera to own because it = can handle, out of the box, the vast majority of our needs. And we can = (and do) throw a Pro35 adapter with prime lenses if we need that = particular look.=20 >=20 > But it's limited, internally, to 35mbs, variable bit rate. Again, for = the vast majority of the stuff we do, this is sufficient. (Carey just = did a spit-take, spraying some really good wine all over his computer = monitor.) I've had no troubles pulling clean keys, for example. But I've = also got 15+ years experience pulling keys, and that surely helps.=20 >=20 > So, the question is, do I throw that 35mbs at a 720p frame or a 1080p = frame? Most of the time I choose 720p. And to my eyes it looks great. I = never find myself pressing my nose against the screen, lamenting digital = artifacts, like we used to do back in the DV25 days. Would 100mbs look = better? Probably. Most likely. But the 35mbs looks great, takes up less = room on my hard drives, and has various other workflow advantages. It's = a good, practical solution. (We edit and archive in ProRes.) >=20 > My work is primarily B to B, and most of the stuff we produce ends up = online, so again, 720p is a good, practical choice. >=20 > There are plenty of studies out there which demonstrate that = resolution is just one part of the image-quality equation.=20 >=20 > Dave >=20 > Dave Bittner - Pixel Workshop Inc. > www.pixelworkshop.com > 410.381.8555 > Twitter @bittner >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_B32F2C42-66ED-48AA-858D-294D95CC33BB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii LOL, = managed to avoid the spit-take!

Look, I'm a quality = freak. Whatever I do, I want to do the best it can be done, always = creating and preserving the highest video and audio quality from = acquisition-to-master and from master-to-deliverable, within the target = specs of the job. In my analog beginnings in this business you wouldn't = believe the hoops I would jump through for a bump in = quality. 

My quality freak-ish-ness = nowadays translates to the principles of good, intelligent = (non-wasteful) workflows. I believe in the proven concept of = over-sampling, but often the budgets, projects and crews I'm working = with do not shoot resolutions higher than 1080p. Rarely I get a 4K-shot = RED job to "finish" in 1080p, but enjoy it when I = do. 

But I believe strongly in doing all = you can to work in what I think will remain a dominant standard for = mastering (and deliverables) for a good long time. That's 1080p. The = fact that a client may want a smaller deliverable today is not enough to = sway me (very often) to throw away that resolution at the start of the = project. Rather, I'll produce it 1080p and deliver a 720p and enjoy the = benefits of oversampling (for that deliverable) but also have that 1080p = master and raw footage to draw upon in case there's a future higher = quality use. 

As far as low-data rate = green screen keys, sure--I've seen it done....and I've even pulled them = myself. Doesn't mean I want to. When I work with XDCAM footage at 35mbit = vs. at, say 220mbit 422 recorded by a nano-flash one of my DPs uses, the = differences are more readily apparent in the keying than even the = viewing of straight video. The stuff just eye-dropper-keys so freaking = well without nearly as much choking, fiddling, etc. BTW as you crank up = the data rate you do see diminishing returns once you get over about = 120-130mbit on XDCam 422 but it's still interesting to compare. I've = settled on 140 long-GOP for interviews and b-roll and 220 I-frame for = keying an vfx.

Carey

On = Feb 16, 2012, at 10:39 AM, Dave Bittner wrote:

Another factor to consider is = whether or not you're dealing with a fixed data rate at any point in the = acquisition or delivery phases. 

For example, = much of the in-house acquisition with do is shot with a Sony EX3. We = chose that model as our default camera to own because it can handle, out = of the box, the vast majority of our needs. And we can (and do) throw a = Pro35 adapter with prime lenses if we need that particular = look. 

But it's limited, internally, to = 35mbs, variable bit rate. Again, for the vast majority of the stuff we = do, this is sufficient. (Carey just did a spit-take, spraying some = really good wine all over his computer monitor.) I've had no troubles = pulling clean keys, for example. But I've also got 15+ years experience = pulling keys, and that surely helps. 

So, = the question is, do I throw that 35mbs at a 720p frame or a 1080p frame? = Most of the time I choose 720p. And to my eyes it looks great. I never = find myself pressing my nose against the screen, lamenting digital = artifacts, like we used to do back in the DV25 days. Would 100mbs look = better? Probably. Most likely. But the 35mbs looks great, takes up less = room on my hard drives, and has various other workflow advantages. It's = a good, practical solution. (We edit and archive in = ProRes.)

My work is primarily B to B, and most = of the stuff we produce ends up online, so again, 720p is a good, = practical choice.

 There are plenty of = studies out there which demonstrate that resolution is just one part of = the image-quality = equation. 

Dave

www.pixelworkshop.com
Twitter @bittner




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