Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw0-f41.google.com ([209.85.213.41] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4655153 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 15:33:01 +0100 Received: by yhr47 with SMTP id 47so1963383yhr.28 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 07:40:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=cpyj3Y8Hkypm1SmeWRIpgmKQgz7JlcmQB1cTMcT6QiY=; b=L82cecubckc7POvxVQPXEp4KsU9dMeA6NyDfF6RkNjXKE1O+f84scGUZEONxIyyFsN /g8yb5kwgjL/UrUOusfCeLBdP4l//TVZj8fj6kBjJ1BmcyioYn9sMZFUwHT0Mef6qcIy ErO1LndzYMk69T58ZYWhW/lxDGjA3cGUGyd74pb0jhk8JZNhL6Cn8uCsjTTfD9S3aXSc Ukyg2RqzYcGP+TZqUyaQIy9Z2b37o7zICwzsk+aDfueUScsJ1qZnUV9QmtYFSXqKS15p 39A7m4JovXIuLBC65xYi93BCfLDLqyHS4fUSo4to4o1mCFufd551LB+BbP/yhPulPrH+ LZfw== Received: by 10.182.38.8 with SMTP id c8mr3704584obk.34.1331736008265; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 07:40:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.52.233 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 07:39:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Teddy Gage Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:39:28 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] [OT] 3D program discussion To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0447f274b50efa04bb34f35b --f46d0447f274b50efa04bb34f35b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 That's excellent advice Chris. Just out of curiosity I like to play around with whatever's current. While specializing in one thing may be the true path to a "career," I still consider myself a generalist, I can't quite turn down work outside my main expertise at this point. As such, it's great to know what has become something of a standard within a majority of post houses. This thread has helped a lot to collect different experiences. Obviously it's a small slice of what's out there. However, from recommendations on-list and my few hours with Cinema it certainly seems like a program worth knowing, and I'm going to continue picking it up. For what it's worth, I think the $45 / month all-you-can-eat digital tutors subscription combined with demo software is a fantastic way to teach yourself anything. I'm by no means an expert but I do have a fair amount of experience in both Vray and Mental Ray - and I do think learning them is crucial to becoming competent in 3D. As for max vs. maya for particles, I think Max has a slight edge, with a caveat; mainly with the plugins Krakatoa and Frost. Especially in conjunction with RealFlow. It also supports Vray out of the box, which is becoming more and more of a standard. But of course I think each plug-in is over $1k, so that's a factor too. http://youtu.be/3xaG882IJ44 On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 6:42 AM, Chris Zwar wrote: > I actually think that you need to figure out what sector of the industry > you're aiming for, and think more about the types of places you want to > work rather than decide on a piece of software to learn. It's much harder > to change industries than it is to learn new software. Corporate events, > broadcast TVCs, feature films, architectural renders, branding and design > are really quite distinct sectors and most people end up specialising in > one of them. If you want to design title sequences then I wouldn't suggest > learning zbrush. If you want to work on feature films then I wouldn't > suggest learning cinema 4D. My opinion is that trying to get a job in > broadcast design if you've only worked in corporate events will be more > difficult than learning Max if you've only used Maya before. > > But here are some observations from my own experience: > > > Cinema 4d: easiest to use, fast workflow, something of a "standard" for > motion graphics? Is it still being actively developed etc? Is it something > every studio is using? > > As the others have noted, Cinema 4D is growing rapidly and has a very > solid base in the design markets. In the studio I'm working in now, it is > constantly turning the heads of the Max/Maya guys and they're increasingly > deferring to Cinema 4D for specific tasks. it will only get bigger and > better. > > > Maya: used a lot in film / high end commercials - steeper learning curve > but very flexible. shaders are complicated but powerful. Good dynamics > engine > > 3dstudio max: used mostly for games / particles work? > > Max and Maya are the two most common 3D programs. I haven't heard anyone > mention XSI or Lightwave for about 10 years. Maya seems more buggy but it > works on Macs - and that's a really important consideration for smaller > agencies that don't run windows. I think that Max has better support for > low-poly real-time engines, but those sort of generalisations can easily be > inaccurate or outdated. The particles thing is a case of the grass being > greener - neither have especially amazing particle systems, and anything > really really complex will bring both packages to their knees. > > Depending on the markets you get work in, you may find that the real skill > is learning a rendering engine (ie vray, mental ray or renderman) and that > skill will be more important than the animation package you use. > > -Chris > > > +---End of message---+ > To unsubscribe send any message to > -- Animator & Editor www.teddygage.com Brooklyn --f46d0447f274b50efa04bb34f35b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =A0 =A0 =A0That's excellent advice Chris. Just out of curiosity I like = to play around with whatever's current. While specializing in one thing= may be the true path to a "career," I still consider myself a ge= neralist, I can't quite turn down work outside my main expertise at thi= s point. As such, it's great to know what has become something of a sta= ndard within a majority of post houses. This thread has helped a lot to col= lect different experiences. Obviously it's a small slice of what's = out there. However, from recommendations on-list and my few hours with Cine= ma it certainly seems like a program worth knowing, and I'm going to co= ntinue picking it up. For what it's worth, I think the $45 / month all-= you-can-eat digital tutors subscription combined with demo software is a fa= ntastic way to teach yourself anything. I'm by no means an expert but I= do have a fair amount of experience in both Vray and Mental Ray - and I do= think learning them is crucial to becoming competent in 3D.=A0

As for max vs. maya for particles, I think Max has a slight = edge, with a caveat; mainly with the plugins Krakatoa and Frost. Especially= in conjunction with RealFlow. It also supports Vray out of the box, which = is becoming more and more of a standard. But of course I think each plug-in= is over $1k, so that's a factor too. http://youtu.be/3xaG882IJ44=A0

On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 6:42 AM, Chris = Zwar <chris@chr= iszwar.com> wrote:
I actually think that you need to figure out what sector of the industry yo= u're aiming for, and think more about the types of places you want to w= ork rather than decide on a piece of software to learn. =A0It's much ha= rder to change industries than it is to learn new software. =A0Corporate ev= ents, broadcast TVCs, feature films, architectural renders, branding and de= sign are really quite distinct sectors and most people end up specialising = in one of them. =A0If you want to design title sequences then I wouldn'= t suggest learning zbrush. =A0If you want to work on feature films then I w= ouldn't suggest learning cinema 4D. =A0My opinion is that trying to get= a job in broadcast design if you've only worked in corporate events wi= ll be more difficult than learning Max if you've only used Maya before.=

But here are some observations from my own experience:

> Cinema 4d: easiest to use, fast workflow, something of a "standar= d" for motion graphics? Is it still being actively developed etc? Is i= t something every studio is using?

As the others have noted, Cinema 4D is growing rapidly and has a very= solid base in the design markets. =A0In the studio I'm working in now,= it is constantly turning the heads of the Max/Maya guys and they're in= creasingly deferring to Cinema 4D for specific tasks. =A0it will only get b= igger and better.

> Maya: used a lot in film / high end commercials - steeper learning cur= ve but very flexible. shaders are complicated but powerful. Good dynamics e= ngine
> 3dstudio max: used mostly for games / particles work?

Max and Maya are the two most common 3D programs. =A0I haven't he= ard anyone mention XSI or Lightwave for about 10 years. =A0Maya seems more = buggy but it works on Macs - and that's a really important consideratio= n for smaller agencies that don't run windows. =A0I think that Max has = better support for low-poly real-time engines, but those sort of generalisa= tions can easily be inaccurate or outdated. =A0The particles thing is a cas= e of the grass being greener - neither have especially amazing particle sys= tems, and anything really really complex will bring both packages to their = knees.

Depending on the markets you get work in, you may find that the real skill = is learning a rendering engine (ie vray, mental ray or renderman) and that = skill will be more important than the animation package you use.

=A0-Chris


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Animator & Editor
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