Return-Path: Received: from eatspam.slcc.edu ([144.35.15.69] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 4684996 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 13 Apr 2012 19:17:44 +0200 X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1334337510-0439c31285107b460001-edO5QZ Received: from vCAS2.slcc.int (vcas2.slcc.int [10.1.11.53]) by eatspam.slcc.edu with ESMTP id HZJGuGbFcOwH2g2D for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2012 11:18:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Barracuda-Envelope-From: John.Morgan@slcc.edu Received: from EXCH.slcc.int ([127.0.0.1]) by vCAS2.slcc.int ([fe80::8031:551b:9a53:7716%11]) with mapi; Fri, 13 Apr 2012 11:18:30 -0600 From: John Morgan To: After Effects Mail List Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 11:18:29 -0600 Subject: RE: [AE] iMac and AE Thread-Topic: [AE] iMac and AE X-ASG-Orig-Subj: RE: [AE] iMac and AE Thread-Index: Ac0ZlmpOPL3vg+EqRwS1z0E/GugU0AAAPHzA Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_EAE675A223415848A14AA69EBCDE9D0A5A667E1EC2EXCHslccint_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Barracuda-Connect: vcas2.slcc.int[10.1.11.53] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1334337510 X-Barracuda-URL: http://eatspam.slcc.edu:8000/cgi-mod/mark.cgi X-Virus-Scanned: by bsmtpd at slcc.edu X-Barracuda-Spam-Score: 0.00 X-Barracuda-Spam-Status: No, SCORE=0.00 using global scores of TAG_LEVEL=1000.0 QUARANTINE_LEVEL=1000.0 KILL_LEVEL=6.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE X-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Code version 3.2, rules version 3.2.2.94018 Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.00 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message --_000_EAE675A223415848A14AA69EBCDE9D0A5A667E1EC2EXCHslccint_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Additional comment on Chris's "you can spend less on a pc than a mac." Why would anyone want to do that and end up with Jim's experience? Heck, my= Z800 (configured as noted) was around $9,400.00 2+ years ago, not counting= the CUDA card and the external Rorke Data GalaxyHDX2 storage and fiber cha= nnel HBA card. And it does exactly what I need it to do with high reliabil= ity and it can do it all day long. Anything less is unacceptable. Got me a racey little car with tight suspension. Does exactly what I want i= t to do. Someone might say "Yeah, but what kind of gas mileage does it get?= " I look back at them kind of dumbfounded and say "Who cares?" John From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of= John Morgan Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 10:57 AM To: After Effects Mail List Subject: Re: [AE] iMac and AE Definitely those relationships matter, as does investment in software/hardw= are, plugins and such. When a person has a bad experience as Jim described= , if it can be attributed to price, quality and ultimately 'survival'....we= ll, survivors learn how to survive. :) My survival has been having quality= /fast hardware with cost being secondary to those first two things. BTW, my NVIDIA Quadro FX 4800 looks like it's now taking a back seat to the= newer 4000 line and others. I was reading the CS6 CUDA/render speeds on y= our website and wondering if it's time to upgrade. I saw numbers indicating= what my card will do in 14 seconds, the 4000 does in 6. Something close to= that. That's a great website! Thanks Chris. John From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of= Chris Meyer Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 10:39 AM To: After Effects Mail List Subject: Re: [AE] iMac and AE That's the two edged sword, isn't it? You can spend less on a PC than on a = Mac, but then it might not be as stable/reliable (unless you really know wh= at you're doing, and configure your own). You can get a PC that's as stable= and faster than a Mac...but now you're spending similar money again. What = was that formula...faster/cheaper/better, pick any 2? Seriously, though, the big deficit on the MacPro side is graphic card assor= tment (and # of cores, and max RAM, but you'll hit your head on the GPU cei= ling first). The Apple Store offering only two flavors of ATI compared to t= he long list HP offers for the Z820 is criminal enough; then when you move = onto the CUDA requirement to get good speed out of ray tracing in CS6, and = look at the list of approved cards on the PC vs. Mac, and as a Mac user I w= ant to cry. Regardless, the advice to "just get a Mac" or "just get a PC" does discount= huge chunks of a person's relationship to their computer, in terms of soft= ware (and hardware) investment, OS familiarity, and other intangibles. It's= like blithely telling someone to change their religion to get a better ass= ortment of holidays (smile). - Chris On Apr 13, 2012, at 10:30 AM, John Morgan wrote: Not denying Jim's experience but I do need to ask if he's tried a workstati= on class machine such as the HP Z800 configured with adequate RAM and prope= r graphics card. Somewhere above the discussion of mac v pc and making a p= urchase based on price, there is a realm of higher quality/better component= s in a workstation that don't offer any of the downside things Jim has expe= rienced. Mine's a dual processor quad core Xeon w/24GB RAM. Never a hiccup= in 2+ years. RAM previews and complex renders are as good today as day one. John From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of= Teddy Gage Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 10:16 AM To: After Effects Mail List Subject: Re: [AE] iMac and AE How are ram previews and rendering more complex on pc? AE is the same progr= am on both OSes. On Apr 13, 2012 12:07 PM, "Jim Lang" > wrote: Unfortunately, every time I have believed the pcs are ok spin, and bought one, I've been burned. At work, they go down more, are convoluted to maintain, and the problems like ram previews and even rendering complex projects become insurmountable, so forgive me if I sound like a Mac nut, it's not that I love Apple, it's a matter of survival. On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 8:17 PM, Rob Birnholz > wrote: > FWIW, I don't have as much bias against Windows as some people think.> +---End of message---+ To unsubscribe send any message to > This message, and any attachments, is intended only for the use of the addr= essee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential or ot= herwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this = e-mail is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any unau= thorized use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of this message i= s prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please noti= fy the sender by return e-mail and delete this e-mail and any attachments f= rom your system.=20=20 This message, and any attachments, is intended only for the use of the addr= essee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential or ot= herwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this= e-mail is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any una= uthorized use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of this message = is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please no= tify the sender by return e-mail and delete this e-mail and any attachments= from your system.= --_000_EAE675A223415848A14AA69EBCDE9D0A5A667E1EC2EXCHslccint_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Additiona= l comment on Chris’s “you can spend less on a pc than a mac.= 221;

 

Why would anyone want to do that and end= up with Jim’s experience? Heck, my Z800 (configured as noted) was ar= ound $9,400.00 2+ years ago, not counting the CUDA card and the external Ro= rke Data GalaxyHDX2 storage and fiber channel HBA card.  And it does e= xactly what I need it to do with high reliability and it can do it all day = long. Anything less is unacceptable.

 

Got me a= racey little car with tight suspension. Does exactly what I want it to do.= Someone might say “Yeah, but what kind of gas mileage does it get?&#= 8221; I look back at them kind of dumbfounded and say “Who cares?R= 21;

 

John

 

From= : After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf = Of John Morgan
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 10:57 AM
To= : After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] iMac and AE<= /o:p>

 

Definitely those relationships matter, as does inves= tment in software/hardware, plugins and such.  When a person has a bad= experience as Jim described, if it can be attributed to price, quality and= ultimately ‘survival’….well, survivors learn how to surv= ive. J  My survival has been having quality/fast hardwa= re with cost being secondary to those first two things.

 

BTW, my NVIDIA Quadro FX 4800 looks like it’s now taking a= back seat to the newer 4000 line and others.  I was reading the CS6 C= UDA/render speeds on your website and wondering if it’s time to upgra= de. I saw numbers indicating what my card will do in 14 seconds, the 4000 d= oes in 6. Something close to that.  That’s a great website! Than= ks Chris.

 

John

 

From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On = Behalf Of Chris Meyer
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 10:39 AMTo: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] iMac and A= E

 

That's the two edged sword, isn't it? You can spend = less on a PC than on a Mac, but then it might not be as stable/reliable (un= less you really know what you're doing, and configure your own). You can ge= t a PC that's as stable and faster than a Mac…but now you're spending= similar money again. What was that formula…faster/cheaper/better, pi= ck any 2? 

 

Seriously, though, the big deficit on the= MacPro side is graphic card assortment (and # of cores, and max RAM, but y= ou'll hit your head on the GPU ceiling first). The Apple Store offering onl= y two flavors of ATI compared to the long list HP offers for the Z820 is cr= iminal enough; then when you move onto the CUDA requirement to get good spe= ed out of ray tracing in CS6, and look at the list of approved cards on the= PC vs. Mac, and as a Mac user I want to cry. 

 

Regardless, the advice to "just get a Mac" or "just get a P= C" does discount huge chunks of a person's relationship to their compu= ter, in terms of software (and hardware) investment, OS familiarity, and ot= her intangibles. It's like blithely telling someone to change their religio= n to get a better assortment of holidays (smile).

=

 

&= nbsp;- Chris

 

 

 

On Apr 1= 3, 2012, at 10:30 AM, John Morgan wrote:

 

Not denying Jim’s experience but I do need to a= sk if he’s tried a workstation class machine such as the HP Z800 conf= igured with adequate RAM and proper graphics card.  Somewhere above th= e discussion of mac v pc and making a purchase based on price, there is a r= ealm of higher quality/better components in a workstation that don’t = offer any of the downside things Jim has experienced.  Mine’s a = dual processor quad core Xeon w/24GB RAM. Never a hiccup in 2+ years. RAM p= reviews and complex renders are as good today as day one.=

 

John

 

From: After Effects = Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of Teddy Gage
Sent:&nbs= p;Friday, April 13, 2012 10:16 AM
To: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] iMac and AE

 

Ho= w are ram previews and rendering more complex on pc? AE is the same program= on both OSes.

On Apr 13, 2012= 12:07 PM, "Jim Lang" <james.c.lang@gmail.com> wrote:

Unfortunately, every time I have believed the pcs are ok spin,= and
bought one, I've been burned.  At work, they go down more, are=
convoluted to maintain, and the problems like ram previews and even
= rendering complex projects become insurmountable, so forgive me if I
sou= nd like a Mac nut, it's not that I love Apple, it's a matter of
survival= .

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 8:17 PM, Rob Birnholz
<absolutemotion@birnholz.com> wrote= :
> FWIW, I don't have as much bias against Windows as some people th= ink.>

+---End of message---+
To unsubscribe send any message t= o <ae-list-off@media-moti= on.tv>


This message, a= nd any attachments, is intended only for the use of the addressee and may c= ontain information that is privileged and confidential or otherwise exempt = from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail is not t= he intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any unauthorized use, d= issemination, distribution or reproduction of this message is prohibited. I= f you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender b= y return e-mail and delete this e-mail and any attachments from your system= .  ­­  

 

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