Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-f169.google.com ([209.85.214.169] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4685023 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 13 Apr 2012 19:27:14 +0200 Received: by obbup16 with SMTP id up16so3615994obb.28 for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2012 10:28:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=w7CTWaj/IRXehL1Lbs4hY5SD95qS+OdQDd7sedM1oa0=; b=vSblJ57wtUJyhTn0L/BpN6R55Dckw1QOsCSzqwnHfcP3lAlDDq3rqQiWDauxfVXhL4 wMgRrKv7D/eh4NAVGqdGYJj4jvtkt+27JqOKnSwPnBjTbEhU0ZwoakN8DNwNabQ/kd5l 9285qiZJ9zvv6iD6lJIQYTdI5fDmfatP37gIM+LE6sMHRdbDqA4RwzAy94m4lZfklmDb o0kaPxuUsLAlVwHaYiE1WRuDVw+MpJGgf5adSzk8/oH0TFocUOoFoH/rdPXLhLptQUP9 J/c3Q0/pBv5+v9h1t8QCwvSgr9/YSb6B999owgwdJcGfhXadEKW4nlUE50wpXDEil0MY XdzA== Received: by 10.182.188.1 with SMTP id fw1mr3425490obc.3.1334338080424; Fri, 13 Apr 2012 10:28:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.193.97 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Apr 2012 10:27:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Teddy Gage Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 13:27:19 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] iMac and AE To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d044788f54b445804bd92cb6d --f46d044788f54b445804bd92cb6d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well how nice of you (or your company) to have unlimited funds, but not all of us are so extremely lucky. For some people money is actually an issue. And cheaper isn't worse - it just means you get more for your money. And I'd be happy to put your z800 against my custom built core i7 3930K any day of the week. :D On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 1:18 PM, John Morgan wrote: > Additional comment on Chris=92s =93you can spend less on a pc than a mac.= =94**** > > ** ** > > Why would anyone want to do that and end up with Jim=92s experience? Heck= , > my Z800 (configured as noted) was around $9,400.00 2+ years ago, not > counting the CUDA card and the external Rorke Data GalaxyHDX2 storage and > fiber channel HBA card. And it does exactly what I need it to do with hi= gh > reliability and it can do it all day long. Anything less is unacceptable.= * > *** > > ** ** > > Got me a racey little car with tight suspension. Does exactly what I want > it to do. Someone might say =93Yeah, but what kind of gas mileage does it > get?=94 I look back at them kind of dumbfounded and say =93Who cares?=94*= *** > > ** ** > > John**** > > ** ** > > *From:* After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] *On > Behalf Of *John Morgan > *Sent:* Friday, April 13, 2012 10:57 AM > > *To:* After Effects Mail List > *Subject:* Re: [AE] iMac and AE**** > > ** ** > > Definitely those relationships matter, as does investment in > software/hardware, plugins and such. When a person has a bad experience = as > Jim described, if it can be attributed to price, quality and ultimately > =91survival=92=85.well, survivors learn how to survive. J My survival ha= s been > having quality/fast hardware with cost being secondary to those first two > things.**** > > ** ** > > BTW, my NVIDIA Quadro FX 4800 looks like it=92s now taking a back seat to > the newer 4000 line and others. I was reading the CS6 CUDA/render speeds > on your website and wondering if it=92s time to upgrade. I saw numbers > indicating what my card will do in 14 seconds, the 4000 does in 6. > Something close to that. That=92s a great website! Thanks Chris.**** > > ** ** > > John**** > > ** ** > > *From:* After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] *On > Behalf Of *Chris Meyer > *Sent:* Friday, April 13, 2012 10:39 AM > *To:* After Effects Mail List > *Subject:* Re: [AE] iMac and AE**** > > ** ** > > That's the two edged sword, isn't it? You can spend less on a PC than on = a > Mac, but then it might not be as stable/reliable (unless you really know > what you're doing, and configure your own). You can get a PC that's as > stable and faster than a Mac=85but now you're spending similar money agai= n. > What was that formula=85faster/cheaper/better, pick any 2? **** > > ** ** > > Seriously, though, the big deficit on the MacPro side is graphic card > assortment (and # of cores, and max RAM, but you'll hit your head on the > GPU ceiling first). The Apple Store offering only two flavors of ATI > compared to the long list HP offers for the Z820 is criminal enough; then > when you move onto the CUDA requirement to get good speed out of ray > tracing in CS6, and look at the list of approved cards on the PC vs. Mac, > and as a Mac user I want to cry. **** > > ** ** > > Regardless, the advice to "just get a Mac" or "just get a PC" does > discount huge chunks of a person's relationship to their computer, in ter= ms > of software (and hardware) investment, OS familiarity, and other > intangibles. It's like blithely telling someone to change their religion = to > get a better assortment of holidays (smile).**** > > ** ** > > - Chris**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > On Apr 13, 2012, at 10:30 AM, John Morgan wrote:**** > > ** ** > > Not denying Jim=92s experience but I do need to ask if he=92s tried a > workstation class machine such as the HP Z800 configured with adequate RA= M > and proper graphics card. Somewhere above the discussion of mac v pc and > making a purchase based on price, there is a realm of higher quality/bett= er > components in a workstation that don=92t offer any of the downside things= Jim > has experienced. Mine=92s a dual processor quad core Xeon w/24GB RAM. Ne= ver > a hiccup in 2+ years. RAM previews and complex renders are as good today = as > day one.**** > > **** > > John**** > > **** > > *From:* After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] *On > Behalf Of *Teddy Gage > *Sent:* Friday, April 13, 2012 10:16 AM > *To:* After Effects Mail List > *Subject:* Re: [AE] iMac and AE**** > > **** > > How are ram previews and rendering more complex on pc? AE is the same > program on both OSes.**** > > On Apr 13, 2012 12:07 PM, "Jim Lang" wrote:**** > > Unfortunately, every time I have believed the pcs are ok spin, and > bought one, I've been burned. At work, they go down more, are > convoluted to maintain, and the problems like ram previews and even > rendering complex projects become insurmountable, so forgive me if I > sound like a Mac nut, it's not that I love Apple, it's a matter of > survival. > > On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 8:17 PM, Rob Birnholz > wrote: > > FWIW, I don't have as much bias against Windows as some people think.> > > +---End of message---+ > To unsubscribe send any message to **** > > > This message, and any attachments, is intended only for the use of the > addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential > or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader o= f > this e-mail is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that a= ny > unauthorized use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of this > message is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, > please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this e-mail and any > attachments from your system. =AD=AD **** > > ** ** > --=20 Animator & Editor www.teddygage.com Brooklyn --f46d044788f54b445804bd92cb6d Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well how nice of you (or your company) to have unlimited funds, but not all= of us are so extremely lucky. For some people money is actually an issue. = And cheaper isn't worse - it just means you get more for your money.
And I'd be happy to put your z800 against my custom built core i7 3= 930K any day of the week. :D



On F= ri, Apr 13, 2012 at 1:18 PM, John Morgan <John.Morgan@slcc.edu> wrote:

Additional co= mment on Chris=92s =93you can spend less on a pc than a mac.=94

=A0<= /p>

Why would anyone want = to do that and end up with Jim=92s experience? Heck, my Z800 (configured as= noted) was around $9,400.00 2+ years ago, not counting the CUDA card and t= he external Rorke Data GalaxyHDX2 storage and fiber channel HBA card.=A0 An= d it does exactly what I need it to do with high reliability and it can do = it all day long. Anything less is unacceptable.

=A0<= /p>

Got me a racey little = car with tight suspension. Does exactly what I want it to do. Someone might= say =93Yeah, but what kind of gas mileage does it get?=94 I look back at t= hem kind of dumbfounded and say =93Who cares?=94

=A0<= /p>

John

=A0<= /p>

From: After Ef= fects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of John Morgan Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 10:57 AM


To: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] iMac = and AE

=A0

Defi= nitely those relationships matter, as does investment in software/hardware,= plugins and such.=A0 When a person has a bad experience as Jim described, = if it can be attributed to price, quality and ultimately =91survival=92=85.= well, survivors learn how to survive. J= =A0 My survival has been having quality/fast hardware with cost being secon= dary to those first two things.

=A0<= /p>

BTW, my NVIDIA Quadro = FX 4800 looks like it=92s now taking a back seat to the newer 4000 line and= others.=A0 I was reading the CS6 CUDA/render speeds on your website and wo= ndering if it=92s time to upgrade. I saw numbers indicating what my card wi= ll do in 14 seconds, the 4000 does in 6. Something close to that.=A0 That= =92s a great website! Thanks Chris.

=A0<= /p>

John

=A0<= /p>

From: After Ef= fects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of Chris Meyer Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 10:39 AM
To: After Effects Ma= il List
Subject: Re: [AE] iMac and AE

=A0

That's the two edged sword, isn't it? You can spend less on a PC th= an on a Mac, but then it might not be as stable/reliable (unless you really= know what you're doing, and configure your own). You can get a PC that= 's as stable and faster than a Mac=85but now you're spending simila= r money again. What was that formula=85faster/cheaper/better, pick any 2?= =A0

=A0

Seriously, though, the big deficit on the MacPro side is graphic ca= rd assortment (and # of cores, and max RAM, but you'll hit your head on= the GPU ceiling first). The Apple Store offering only two flavors of ATI c= ompared to the long list HP offers for the Z820 is criminal enough; then wh= en you move onto the CUDA requirement to get good speed out of ray tracing = in CS6, and look at the list of approved cards on the PC vs. Mac, and as a = Mac user I want to cry.=A0

=A0

Regardless, the advice to "just get a Mac" or &quo= t;just get a PC" does discount huge chunks of a person's relations= hip to their computer, in terms of software (and hardware) investment, OS f= amiliarity, and other intangibles. It's like blithely telling someone t= o change their religion to get a better assortment of holidays (smile).<= /u>

=A0

=A0- Chris

=A0

=A0<= /p>

=A0

On Apr 13, 2012, at 10:30 AM, John Morg= an wrote:

=A0

Not denying Jim=92s experience bu= t I do need to ask if he=92s tried a workstation class machine such as the = HP Z800 configured with adequate RAM and proper graphics card.=A0 Somewhere= above the discussion of mac v pc and making a purchase based on price, the= re is a realm of higher quality/better components in a workstation that don= =92t offer any of the downside things Jim has experienced.=A0 Mine=92s a du= al processor quad core Xeon w/24GB RAM. Never a hiccup in 2+ years. RAM pre= views and complex renders are as good today as day one.

=A0<= /u>

= John

=A0<= /u>

From:= =A0After Effects Mail List = [mailto:AE-Lis= t@media-motion.tv]=A0On Behalf Of=A0Te= ddy Gage
Sent:=A0Friday, April 13, 2012 10:16 AM
To:=A0After Effects Mail List
Subject:=A0Re:= [AE] iMac and AE

=A0

How are ram previews and rendering more complex on pc? AE is the s= ame program on both OSes.

On Apr 13, 2012 12:07 PM, "Jim Lan= g" <jam= es.c.lang@gmail.com> wrote:

Un= fortunately, every time I have believed the pcs are ok spin, and
bought = one, I've been burned. =A0At work, they go down more, are
convoluted= to maintain, and the problems like ram previews and even
rendering complex projects become insurmountable, so forgive me if I
sou= nd like a Mac nut, it's not that I love Apple, it's a matter of
= survival.

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 8:17 PM, Rob Birnholz
<absolutemotion@= birnholz.com> wrote:
> FWIW, I don't have as much bias against Windows as some people thi= nk.>

+---End of message---+
To u= nsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv><= /div>


This message, and any attachments, is intended only for the = use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and con= fidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the = reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notifie= d that any unauthorized use, dissemination, distribution or reproduction of= this message is prohibited. If you have received this communication in err= or, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this e-mail and an= y attachments from your system.=A0=A0=AD=AD=A0=A0

=A0

=



--
Animator & Editor
= www.teddygage.com
Brooklyn

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