Mailing List AE-List@media-motion.tv ? Message #43678
From: Greg Bacon <bacon@stsci.edu>
Subject: Re: [AE] Astronomical positioning in AE (script?)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 15:05:22 +0000
To: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>, stephen@sv2studios.com <stephen@sv2studios.com>
Hi Stephen,

A colleague of mine; Frank Summers (visualizer and astronomer) tried to send you a message via the AE list, but I'm not sure if it made (since he is not a member).  Hope this information helps…. I'm copy/pasting his message:

Stephen,

Greg Bacon passed along your message to me. I'm an astronomer in the Office of Public Outreach at the Space Telescope Science Institute (home of Hubble).

Right Ascension (RA) and Declination (dec) are simply angular coordinates on the sky, analogous to longitude and latitude on Earth. The usual tricky part is that astronomers traditionally specify RA in hours-minutes-seconds and dec in degrees-minutes-seconds. Your source gave you the decimal conversion, so everything you have should be in degrees.

To get the 3D equatorial coordinates, I would write a perl script that uses the spherical polar coordinate transform:

Z = D * cos(90 – dec)
X = D * sin(90 – dec) * cos(RA)
Y = D * sin(90 – dec) * sin(RA)

Remember that you have to convert degrees to radians (mulitply by pi/180) before calling sin and cos in most programming languages.

Now this gives you equatorial coordinates in which the Z axis is Earth's rotational axis and the XY plane is the projection of Earth's equator onto the sky. You may want a different coordinate system, which will require rotating these coordinates. Most likely that will depend on what coordinate system is being used for objects in the foreground.

Other useful coordinate systems are:
- ecliptic coordinates — XY plane is plane of Earth's orbit around the Sun, good for solar system shots
- galactic coordinates — XY plane is plane of Milky Way, good for extragalactic shots

You are correct in noting that there are usually several distance measures to a galaxy. Distance in the universe is quite difficult to measure. My advice is to use only one source. It will have errors, but the errors should be consistent with each other. Using multiple sources can produce nonsensical situations (at least from an astronomers point of view).

I will also note that galaxies are very small compared to the distances between them. When doing the flight from the Milky Way to the Virgo Cluster in IMAX "Hubble 3D", the size of each galaxy was scaled up by about 4-5 in order to make them more visible during the flight. Don't know what you are working on, but you will likely want to do a similar scaling.

Frank Summers

Space Telescope Science Institute
3700 San Martin Dr
Baltimore, MD 21218
410-338-4749




From: Stephen van Vuuren <stephen@sv2studios.com>
Reply-To: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>, "stephen@sv2studios.com" <stephen@sv2studios.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 2:55 AM
To: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] Astronomical positioning in AE (script?)

Just in test form – volunteers are being recruited to populate it. Here’s the data. The three distance (MPC or megaparsec) is due to lack of agreement. I’m thinking of averaging them.

 

Object

RA (decimal)

Dec (decimal)

Distance from HST Release Info (Mpc)

Distance from NED (MPC)

Distance from Simbad (MPC)

M104

189.997633

-11.623054

9

10.39

11.52

NGC 1316

50.673000

-37.209306

23

20.135

21.13

NGC 3310

159.691071

53.503303

18

18.1

18.58

 

 

stephen van vuuren

336.202.4777

 

http://www.sv2dcp.com/

http://www.sv2studios.com/

http://www.outsideinthemovie.com/

 

A film is – or should be – more like music than like fiction. It should be a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what’s behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes later.

Stanley Kubrick

 

From: Dan Ebberts [mailto:debberts@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 12:43 AM
To: After Effects Mail List; stephen@sv2studios.com
Subject: Re: [AE] Astronomical positioning in AE (script?)

 

What form is the data in now? The script could certainly do the conversion from right ascension ,  declination and distance. Then I think all you need is to pick a scale factor for the distance to fit everything into a AE-sized world. How much data is there?

 

Dan

 

 

 

 

Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 9:01 PM

Subject: Re: [AE] Astronomical positioning in AE (script?)

 

Phil,

 

Not in a huge rush and that would certainly get you listed in the film’s credits – thanks so much for the offer. Let me work on the Excel side of things (not that I’m genius there either but it should be possible) to get it sorted out.

 

I am wondering about the multiplier – wonder if it needs to be truly logarithmic giving the size of the universe. The observable universe is 46 billion light years across, the average galaxy (e.g. ours) is 100,000 light years, that’s a ratio of 460,000 : 1.

 

Any idea of maximum XYZ values in AE?

 

stephen van vuuren

336.202.4777

 

http://www.sv2dcp.com/

http://www.sv2studios.com/

http://www.outsideinthemovie.com/

 

A film is – or should be – more like music than like fiction. It should be a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what’s behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes later.

Stanley Kubrick

 

From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv]On Behalf Of Phil Spitler
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 11:43 PM
To: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] Astronomical positioning in AE (script?)

 

If you can get the data into a spreadsheet into X,Y,Z columns, it would be easy enough to have a script read each row of x,y,z and apply that to the position of a layer.

 

I have done a similar thing taking camera data from a motion control rig into AE.

 

If you are not in a huge rush, I could write the script for you once you give me a sample of the data.

 

You will probably need some kind of multiplier in there to make the values fit within you AE world.

 

Phil

 

Phil Spitler |   Associate Creative Director  |  Bonfire Labs |  t : 415.394.8200  |  c : 415.571.3139  |  Bonfirelabs.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

On May 15, 2012, at 8:21 PM, Stephen van Vuuren wrote:

 

I’m working on the Big Bang section of the film. A local community college is researching celestial objects that have been imaged. They provide two pieces of data – the spherical position via a value for right ascension & declination. And a distance in megaparsecs.

 

I need to convert this into a manageable form in AE. Obviously, some kind of compensation for

 

I found this on converting to XYZ – but the how to create the math to work in AE, I’m not sure what is the best way:

 

 

I don’t know if this should be setup in Excel and then exported into AE, or some kind of script built – which is probably beyond my admittedly poor scripting skills.


Thoughts?

 

stephen van vuuren

336.202.4777

 

 

A film is – or should be – more like music than like fiction. It should be a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what’s behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes later.

Stanley Kubrick

 

 

 
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