Return-Path: Received: from omr12.networksolutionsemail.com ([205.178.146.62] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4737543 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Thu, 07 Jun 2012 08:04:13 +0200 Received: from cm-omr3 (mail.networksolutionsemail.com [205.178.146.50]) by omr12.networksolutionsemail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q5766gmZ013773 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2012 02:06:42 -0400 Authentication-Results: cm-omr3 smtp.user=chris@chriszwar.com; auth=pass (PLAIN) X-Authenticated-UID: chris@chriszwar.com Received: from [122.150.240.225] ([122.150.240.225:53978] helo=[192.168.0.5]) by cm-omr3 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.41 r(31179/31189)) with ESMTPA id F7/18-14279-0F440DF4; Thu, 07 Jun 2012 02:06:41 -0400 From: Chris Zwar Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6--35253204 Subject: Re: [AE] Why a raytraced renderer? Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 16:06:39 +1000 In-Reply-To: To: "After Effects Mail List" References: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) --Apple-Mail-6--35253204 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I often reflect on how time brings technological advances that simply = eradicates problems altogether. When I first started working, it was a = huge issue just to transfer a file larger than 1 meg - or whatever would = fit on a floppy. SCSI chains and termination issues could be = infuriating. A client could throw a huge spanner in the works by = turning up with a VHS tape they wanted to digitise. I cursed Beta SP = for its dropouts. When I first used Media 100 - on a Quadra, I think - = you had to render EVERYTHING - even static titles. And the first quote = we got on a hard-drive array was $1K per gigabyte - it was exactly = $18,000 for an 18 gig array, made up of 4 x 4.5 gig SCSI drives - which = needed their own high performance SCSI cards and $200 cables. The cost = was so high that I used to have to backup media to an Exabyte drive to = make room for current projects, because the bean counters wouldn't pay = for more storage. And on the software side of things, just dealing with text was a huge = issue. First you'd have to create a text layer in Photoshop, then = rasterise it, then enlarge the canvas and put dots in the corners so = effects like blur wouldn't clip the edges, then export it and import it = into AE... Those problems just went away with time... and now I sound like an old = fart who's moaning away (back in MY day...) So perhaps in a few years we'll look back and wonder what all the fuss = was about... -Chris On 07/06/2012, at 12:59 PM, Chris Meyer wrote: > I think the biggest thing for users to wrap their heads around is that = the After Effects team has far, far, far fewer resources than most = assume, given the overall size and presumed might of Adobe. Which is = criminal (the lack of resources; not user perceptions); it also = magnifies the pain if any misstep is made in allocating those precious = few resources. >=20 > - Chris >=20 >=20 > On Jun 6, 2012, at 1:19 PM, Greg Balint wrote: >=20 >> Alright. I'll concede on my arguments of side parties influencing the = dev teams.=20 >>=20 >> I guess the biggest thing for users to wrap their heads around is = that this is just step one of many to improve the feature. AE team = doesn't seem to do this all the time. It's not like we have improvements = on the puppet pin feature or cartoon effect, or graph editor after those = were implemented, so it's generally assumed this will be the basis on = the feature for versions to come, with just small tweaks and additions = made to it in the future instead of seeing it revamped and changed = completely for version 2.0 of the feature. =20 >>=20 >> ////Greg Balint >> ///Art Director / Motion Graphics Designer >> delRAZOR.com/ >>=20 >> On Jun 6, 2012, at 3:05 PM, pixelbot@comcast.net wrote: >>=20 >>> it reminds me of the implementation of GI in cinema 4d - everybody = had to have it and then when it was put in everybody bitched and moaned = and now it is highly usable and refined. I can't imagine it won't get = better in further updates, baby steps. >>>=20 >>> timt >>>=20 >>> From: "Todd Kopriva" >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> When thinking about the 3D features in After Effects CS6, it's = important to realize that we consider this feature set a single step on = a path. Are we done? No. Is it perfect? No. But we were able to = introduce a much-requested feature in a way that satisfies a lot of = people. >>>=20 >>> One interesting point of note: In the 11.0.1 update, we added fixes = to support a third-party 3D renderer (AtomKraft from JupiterJazz). You = should see this as an indication that we did a lot of work to the guts = of After Effects C6 to enable future 3D advances, and we already have = third parties taking advantage of this. >>>=20 >>> So, please do keep the feature requests coming. Don't think that = we're foolish enough to assume that our current 3D feature set is = perfect and then criticize us based on that false assumption. Rather, = help us to take the next step on this path that we just started down. >>>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-6--35253204 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii I = often reflect on how time brings technological advances that simply = eradicates problems altogether.  When I first started working, it = was a huge issue just to transfer a file larger than 1 meg - or whatever = would fit on a floppy.  SCSI chains and termination issues could be = infuriating.  A client could throw a huge spanner in the works by = turning up with a VHS tape they wanted to digitise.  I cursed Beta = SP for its dropouts.  When I first used Media 100 - on a Quadra, I = think - you had to render EVERYTHING - even static titles.  And the = first quote we got on a hard-drive array was $1K per gigabyte - it was = exactly $18,000 for an 18 gig array, made up of 4 x 4.5 gig SCSI drives = - which needed their own high performance SCSI cards and $200 cables. =  The cost was so high that I used to have to backup media to an = Exabyte drive to make room for current projects, because the bean = counters wouldn't pay for more storage.

And on the = software side of things, just dealing with text was a huge issue. =  First you'd have to create a text layer in Photoshop, then = rasterise it, then enlarge the canvas and put dots in the corners so = effects like blur wouldn't clip the edges, then export it and import it = into AE...

Those problems just went away with = time... and now I sound like an old fart who's moaning away (back in MY = day...)

So perhaps in a few years we'll look = back and wonder what all the fuss was = about...


-Chris

=

On 07/06/2012, at 12:59 PM, Chris Meyer = wrote:

I think the biggest = thing for users to wrap their heads around is that the After Effects = team has far, far, far fewer resources than most assume, given the = overall size and presumed might of Adobe. Which is criminal (the lack of = resources; not user perceptions); it also magnifies the pain if any = misstep is made in allocating those precious few = resources.

 - = Chris


On Jun 6, 2012, at 1:19 PM, = Greg Balint wrote:

Alright. I'll concede on my arguments of side = parties influencing the dev teams. 

I = guess the biggest thing for users to wrap their heads around is that = this is just step one of many to improve the feature. AE team doesn't = seem to do this all the time. It's not like we have improvements on the = puppet pin feature or cartoon effect, or graph editor after those were = implemented, so it's generally assumed this will be the basis on the = feature for versions to come, with just small tweaks and additions made = to it in the future instead of seeing it revamped and changed completely = for version 2.0 of the feature.  

////Greg Balint
///Art = Director / Motion Graphics Designer

On = Jun 6, 2012, at 3:05 PM, pixelbot@comcast.net = wrote:

it reminds = me of the implementation of GI in cinema 4d - everybody had to have it = and then when it was put in everybody bitched and moaned and now it is = highly usable and refined. I can't imagine it won't get better in = further updates, baby steps.

timt

From: "Todd Kopriva" <kopriva@adobe.com>

=
When thinking about the 3D features in After Effects CS6, it's = important to realize that we consider this feature set a single step on = a path. Are we done? No. Is it perfect? No. But we were able to = introduce a much-requested feature in a way that satisfies a lot of = people.

One interesting point of note: In the 11.0.1 update, we = added fixes to support a third-party 3D renderer (AtomKraft from = JupiterJazz). You should see this as an indication that we did a lot of = work to the guts of After Effects C6 to enable future 3D advances, and = we already have third parties taking advantage of this.

So, = please do keep the feature requests coming. Don't think that we're = foolish enough to assume that our current 3D feature set is perfect and = then criticize us based on that false assumption. Rather, help us to = take the next step on this path that we just started = down.


<= /div>

= --Apple-Mail-6--35253204--