Return-Path: Received: from mail-lb0-f169.google.com ([209.85.217.169] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4744880 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:51:05 +0200 Received: by lbjn8 with SMTP id n8so764211lbj.28 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:53:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=wJYmByUlLA0DLFKY6GlsO4rF3rHFO7qurXndSTI1ioc=; b=JJcy1a16brEmc0sIr07R7gERkHs9FlnILkLOUWfbGXUAb6mGZTCm9thrwOcXv4QPVc x3jUTyMsVOTOnzNNxKtTU/tQMEDpwV8wfZx7urCS/wGShtQSq4BSh24O4xyYDzQ85L4U wN96Yl5JK2iA6D8DgKaTfFRue5X7jBAxKUezWHF22JR92SAmhGQ9Cv+KWec6wPsnS6N6 7w+rcPb4nA3NRALC5RYuuQ8IfS8fBT+6i6Uw3WLWGH0VINRP/Wwu/yhjIOI73oiIhq6G IH9cT+kjH8/DQYJ36edQ7YyVhRaYpwoUnV8QSxP3qKW+K6BEd65dOUenQkuuFSV11ZnE i2gg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.131.68 with SMTP id ok4mr21902701lab.47.1339538026308; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.85.101 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:53:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:53:46 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] (OT) An example of a PC version of a Mac Pro with today's tech for AE From: Steve Forde To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0435c1d238a63804c24d8061 --f46d0435c1d238a63804c24d8061 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just for clarity - I think a minor (perhaps major!) point got lost. HT is very powerful for AE on a normal basis. Many effects, processes etc can utilize the benefits of spawning many threads and having the additional semi-CPU's work with them. That=92s on your bread and butter stuff. Chris is articulating MP only. MP means that Ae essentially spawns multiple instances of itself (and renders a complete frame on that instance) and makes this determination based on a mix of available RAM and # of processors. The OS reports to Ae the number of processors - Ae CANNOT distinguish the difference between a real CPU and an HT one. Therefore - if spawned instances of Ae are equal to the total number of CPU's - you will have Ae instances trying to use the HT CPU's as if they were real ones. At this point the scheduler in the OS is going to try to route traffic as efficiently as possible - however - on long renders - you will have Ae instances trying to compute on some CPU's that frankly don't exist. This is Chris's point. Ae attempts to take this into account with memory management and limiting the number of CPU's as one way to keep HT on and let the scheduler in the OS do the rest. The advice from Chris is still sound - buy RAM for what is truly used. Meaning - the amount of memory you need for previews and general computing - and the actual number of CPU's you will be using if you decide to turn on MP. Usually that translates into - the most RAM you can possibly afford! Hope this helps. Steve Adobe Systems Inc. On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Greg Balint wrote: > Ok. So clear and final word here. > > HT on will have the OS (windows) show any program that it has 12 threads > to work with. Period. Right?? Why would AE discern against it if the os > doesn't even determine which threads are "originals" versus "virtuals"? > > In my experience of CS5, AE just uses the Threads equally. No Delineation > of whether they are virtual or not. The performance is a little slower > than if you had 12 true cores, but it's not nearly as slow as only 6 true > cores. > > Is this correct in Cs6 or have they removed this. I'll be sad if they > have, as it actually is a faster render. > > I don't care about the ray tracing engine at this point. So I'll only be > using AE in a similar way as previous versions. I want my HT to be worth = it! > > ////Greg Balint > ///Art Director / Motion Graphics Designer > delRAZOR.com/ > > On Jun 12, 2012, at 5:10 PM, "Stephen van Vuuren" > wrote: > > >> As I alluded, It's only multiproc rendering that can't use virtual > cores. > > Other multithreaded tasks (like non-CUDA ray-traced rendering) uses rea= l > and > > virtual cores. > > > > Chris, you confused about AE (which is a very rare thing). CS4 did not > use > > HTT, but CS5 did - it was part of the launch marketing. Unless somethin= g > has > > been disabled in CS6 which would be a big shocker and a fail since this > was > > a major engineering feature of 64-bit CS5. I've been HTT rendering on > almost > > every render since CS5 came out. While performance is not the same as > > physical cores - obviously - the huge cost difference, especially if yo= u > > overclock, more than makes up. Which is why this benchmark recommended > Quad > > Core, HT and MP enabled as best bang for buck using AE CS5. > > > > http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/adobe-cs5-cuda-64-bit,2770-6.html > > > > http://forums.adobe.com/message/4363116 > > > > I just got my plugs setup for CS6 and will be rendering with HTT on > tonight > > but I will be most surprised if it does not work. > > > > stephen van vuuren > > 336.202.4777 > > > > http://www.sv2dcp.com/ > > http://www.sv2studios.com/ > > http://www.outsideinthemovie.com/ > > > > A film is - or should be - more like music than like fiction. It should > be a > > progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what's behind the emotion= , > the > > meaning, all that comes later. > > -Stanley Kubrick > > > > > > > > > > +---End of message---+ > > To unsubscribe send any message to > > > > +---End of message---+ > To unsubscribe send any message to > --f46d0435c1d238a63804c24d8061 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just for clarity - I think a minor (perhaps major!) poin= t got lost.

HT is very powerful for AE on a normal= basis. =A0Many effects, processes etc can utilize the benefits of spawning= many threads and having the additional semi-CPU's work with them. =A0T= hat=92s on your bread and butter stuff.

Chris is articulating MP only. =A0MP means that Ae esse= ntially spawns multiple instances of itself (and renders a complete frame o= n that instance) and makes this determination based on a mix of available R= AM and # of processors.

The OS reports to Ae the number of processors - Ae CANN= OT distinguish the difference between a real CPU and an HT one. =A0Therefor= e - if spawned instances of Ae are equal to the total number of CPU's -= you will have Ae instances trying to use the HT CPU's as if they were = real ones.

At this point the scheduler in the OS is going to try t= o route traffic as efficiently as possible - however - on long renders - yo= u will have Ae instances trying to compute on some CPU's that frankly d= on't exist. =A0This is Chris's point.

Ae attempts to take this into account with memory manag= ement and limiting the number of CPU's as one way to keep HT on and let= the scheduler in the OS do the rest.

The advice f= rom Chris is still sound - buy RAM for what is truly used. =A0Meaning - the= amount of memory you need for previews and general computing - and the act= ual number of CPU's you will be using if you decide to turn on MP. =A0U= sually that translates into - the most RAM you can possibly afford!

Hope this helps.

Steve
Adobe Systems Inc.
On Tue, Ju= n 12, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Greg Balint <greg@delrazor.com> wrote= :
Ok. So clear and final word here.

HT on will have the OS (windows) show any program that it has 12 threads to= work with. Period. Right?? =A0 Why would AE discern against it if the os d= oesn't even determine which threads are "originals" versus &q= uot;virtuals"?

In my experience of CS5, AE just uses the Threads equally. No Delineation o= f whether they are virtual or not. =A0The performance is a little slower th= an if you had 12 true cores, but it's not nearly as slow as only 6 true= cores.

Is this correct in Cs6 or have they removed this. I'll be sad if they h= ave, as it actually is a faster render.

I don't care about the ray tracing engine at this point. So I'll on= ly be using AE in a similar way as previous versions. I want my HT to be wo= rth it!

////Greg Balint
///Art Director / Motion Graphics Designer
delRAZOR.com/

On Jun 12, 2012, at 5:10 PM, = "Stephen van Vuuren" <stephen@sv2studios.com> wrote:

>> As I alluded, It's only multiproc rendering that can't use= virtual cores.
> Other multithreaded tasks (like non-CUDA ray-traced rendering) uses re= al and
> virtual cores.
>
> Chris, you confused about AE (which is a very rare thing). CS4 did not= use
> HTT, but CS5 did - it was part of the launch marketing. Unless somethi= ng has
> been disabled in CS6 which would be a big shocker and a fail since thi= s was
> a major engineering feature of 64-bit CS5. I've been HTT rendering= on almost
> every render since CS5 came out. While performance is not the same as<= br> > physical cores - obviously - the huge cost difference, especially if y= ou
> overclock, more than makes up. Which is why this benchmark recommended= Quad
> Core, HT and MP enabled as best bang for buck using AE CS5.
>
> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/adobe-cs5= -cuda-64-bit,2770-6.html
>
> = http://forums.adobe.com/message/4363116
>
> I just got my plugs setup for CS6 and will be rendering with HTT on to= night
> but I will be most surprised if it does not work.
>
> stephen van vuuren
> 336.202.4777 >
> http://www.sv2dcp= .com/
> http://www.sv= 2studios.com/
> http:/= /www.outsideinthemovie.com/
>
> A film is - or should be - more like music than like fiction. It shoul= d be a
> progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what's behind the em= otion, the
> meaning, all that comes later.
> -Stanley Kubrick
>
>
>
>
> +---End of message---+
> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>
>

+---End of message---+
To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>

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