Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 4747433 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 15 Jun 2012 00:46:02 +0200 Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=KKDY/S5o c=1 sm=0 a=nSwYzG3nL+YYqzdGadiYmA==:17 a=j74oHANl87gA:10 a=qD1w9f7OX9oA:10 a=6QVzGSgJaQ4A:10 a=n_cyjgRKAAAA:8 a=JAralIE_AAAA:8 a=0NtdC1r0AAAA:8 a=IS4zgYgXAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=9kpiMG8CAAAA:8 a=MqKSN0MkAAAA:8 a=0OJHTwOpAAAA:8 a=STtTM94eBg55K4ZOUk4A:9 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=jOscZG_KAVcA:10 a=9oIVFEAV14sA:10 a=FXIxpJd4O80A:10 a=xJxwlSTHri8A:10 a=VE7Xo1yCvyMA:10 a=Hiit177yz3gA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=J3FFS5Z1cv1xAox-:21 a=A09_Lb7JB7r7xVY9:21 a=wRFwjknTdF8hVnuWXjsA:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=o0Gw6g83cyUA:10 a=UGRb_p-nXPUA:10 a=2FFvW08N8nkA:10 a=YGFCVFWAXQUA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=nSwYzG3nL+YYqzdGadiYmA==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 24.73.238.28 Received: from [24.73.238.28] ([24.73.238.28:56219] helo=[192.168.0.2]) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 62/F7-05395-E4A6ADF4; Thu, 14 Jun 2012 22:48:47 +0000 From: Dann Stubbs Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-629673636 Subject: Re: [AE] [OT] The Mac Pro is dead Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:48:46 -0400 In-Reply-To: To: "After Effects Mail List" References: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) --Apple-Mail-1-629673636 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 http://www.flickr.com/photos/denton-family/3964899726/ apple used to have a modular computer "stack" design concept - i could = see this coming back with the TB connectors being the connectivity. = video cards are popped into an empty "shell" case and plugged in. (or = purchased pre-packaged in their TB ready shell) just a thin "master" stack that has the OS boot rom in it that is flash = upgradable controls it all... plug in the HD, power supplies, central = processing unit and ram etc... essentially nearly the entire computers = is modular at this point.=20 not that i personally like this idea but the whole modular/consumer = friendly thing seems the direction - no more consumer level fear of the = "guts" of the computer when they are all in safe sterile apple branded = plastic enclosures that just plug and play... easy to upgrade and add on = to as well. your computers does not become obsolete anymore - just pop = off the piece you want to upgrade and the rest can stay as it is. i could see these "stacks" becoming so much of a commodity they'd be = sold anywhere... after all if anyone told you 10 or 20 years ago you'd = be buying 32 or 64GB of hardware storage on the counter at 7-11 for $8 = you would have laughed... yet look at the little USB drives that sell = just like that... i guess it will be interesting to see where the path leads... my old = school side wants things to not go too radical, but the adventure side = says bring it on and we will roll with it as it evolves and wonder how = we ever did without it. dann ___________________________________________________________________ Dann Stubbs - dann@darkskydigital.com Dark Sky Digital - http://www.darkskydigital.com http://www.RenderKing.com Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm ___________________________________________________________________ On Jun 14, 2012, at 5:38 PM, Chris Meyer wrote: > That was my assumption as well, until Dave Bittner pointed me to some = tests which showed a near-negligable performance dropoff of putting an = NVIDIA card in a Thunderbolt-connected PCI chassis compared to having it = on board. If AE is using the card as a render farm, and the time spent = computing dwarfs the time spent transferring the frames=85well, you know = the rest. >=20 > This obviously changes with the more frame transfers you intend to do, = such as multistream realtime playback (i.e. Premiere Pro). That said, = David Helmly posted a video where he showed putting a RED Rocket in an = external chassis was still a worthwhile boost to a MacBook for those = doing RED work in Premiere. >=20 > willing to have my assumptions rocked - > Chris >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Jun 14, 2012, at 2:24 PM, Tim Sassoon wrote: >=20 >> At NAB the NVidia rep told me that their #1 user request by far was = for a TB-attached CUDA engine/GPU. He said that the _current_ TB = implementation wasn't fast enough to make that as good a solution as = user would hope for. >>=20 >>=20 >> Tim Sassoon >> Sassoon Film Design >> 2525 Main Street >> Suite 206 >> Santa Monica, CA 90405 >> W 310.664.9115 >> M 310.266.8630 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Jun 14, 2012, at 1:20 PM, Tony Romain wrote: >>=20 >>> That's kind of what I've been thinking too=85 just ditch everything = in the computer except for a souped up graphics card and processor. = Everything else is external and thunderbolt connected >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- >>> tony romain | principal/creative director >>>=20 >>> trance >>> motion graphic animation and design >>> 323 651 1114 >>> www.trancedesigns.com >>>=20 >>> From: Tim Sassoon >>> Reply-To: AE list >>> Date: Thursday, June 14, 2012 12:58 PM >>> To: AE list >>> Subject: Re: [AE] [OT] The Mac Pro is dead >>>=20 >>> Okay, decade, schmeckade. And I know in all seriousness that you = don't have a million bucks :-) >>>=20 >>> But computing power generally has an inverse proportion to size. In = order to become more powerful, they must shrink. Then there's Quantum = Computing, where suddenly the current chip paradigm looks like tubes and = punch cards compared. >>>=20 >>> Most of the space in a current tower are disk and peripheral bays, = PCI slots, and power supply. Disks will be SSD, and peripherals can be = outboard, Thunderbolt can supplant internal PCI, and then you only need = a fraction of the power supply. What do you have then? A Mac Mini with = better CPU's, pretty much. And I suspect that in the long run, that's = Apple's point. That instead of buying one Monster Truck of a computer, = you'd be better served by buying a fleet of FIT's. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Tim Sassoon >>> SFD >>> Santa Monica, CA >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Jun 14, 2012, at 11:39 AM, Stephen van Vuuren wrote: >>>=20 >>>> > The "pro" computer ten years from now will be the same size as = today's iPhone. >>>>=20 >>>> I will bet a million dollars, in all seriousness, in front of all = the witnesses here, that this is not the case. Physics says no as does = Moore=92s law and what we will be doing with said computers in ten = years. >>>>=20 >>>> I will agree the iPhone of ten years from now will outperform = todays tower. But I am sure enough to bet a million dollars that pro=92s = will need far more power than that. The iPhone today much slower than = the pro CPU in 2002. And the pro CPUs 10 years ago can=92t run any = recent version of CS6 (which requires Core 2 Duo minimum). >>>> =20 >>>> Unless you are hoping some massive revolution in = chip/CPU/drive/RAM/storage, I think my best is pretty safe. >>>> =20 >>>> Plus, my towers have been getting bigger over the last 10 years, = not smaller=85 >>>> =20 >>>> stephen van vuuren >>>> 336.202.4777 >>>> =20 >>>> http://www.sv2dcp.com/ >>>> http://www.sv2studios.com/ >>>> http://www.outsideinthemovie.com/ >>>> =20 >>>> A film is =96 or should be =96 more like music than like fiction. = It should be a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what=92s = behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes later. >>>> =96Stanley Kubrick >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-1-629673636 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 http://www= .flickr.com/photos/denton-family/3964899726/

apple = used to have a modular computer "stack" design concept - i could see = this coming back with the TB connectors being the connectivity. video = cards are popped into an empty "shell" case and plugged in. (or = purchased pre-packaged in their TB ready = shell)

just a thin "master" stack that has the = OS boot rom in it that is flash upgradable controls it all... plug in = the HD, power supplies, central processing unit and ram etc... = essentially nearly the entire computers is modular at this = point. 

not that i personally like this = idea but the whole modular/consumer friendly thing seems the direction - = no more consumer level fear of the "guts" of the computer when they are = all in safe sterile apple branded plastic enclosures that just plug and = play... easy to upgrade and add on to as well. your computers does not = become obsolete anymore - just pop off the piece you want to upgrade and = the rest can stay as it is.

i could see these = "stacks"  becoming so much of a commodity they'd be sold = anywhere... after all if anyone told you 10 or 20 years ago you'd be = buying 32 or 64GB  of hardware storage on the counter at 7-11 for = $8 you would have laughed... yet look at the little USB drives that sell = just like that...

i guess it will be = interesting to see where the path leads... my old school side wants = things to not go too radical, but the adventure side says bring it on = and  we will roll with it as it evolves and wonder how we ever did = without it.

dann

Dann = Stubbs  -  dann@darkskydigital.com
Dark Sky Digital = -  http://www.darkskydigital.com




On Jun 14, 2012, at 5:38 PM, Chris Meyer wrote:

That was my assumption as well, = until Dave Bittner pointed me to some tests which showed a = near-negligable performance dropoff of putting an NVIDIA card in a = Thunderbolt-connected PCI chassis compared to having it on board. If AE = is using the card as a render farm, and the time spent computing dwarfs = the time spent transferring the frames=85well, you know the = rest.

This obviously changes with the more frame = transfers you intend to do, such as multistream realtime playback (i.e. = Premiere Pro). That said, David Helmly posted a video where he showed = putting a RED Rocket in an external chassis was still a worthwhile boost = to a MacBook for those doing RED work in = Premiere.

willing to have my assumptions rocked = -
Chris




On Jun 14, 2012, at 2:24 PM, Tim Sassoon wrote:

At NAB the NVidia rep told me = that their #1 user request by far was for a TB-attached CUDA engine/GPU. = He said that the _current_ TB implementation wasn't fast enough to make = that as good a solution as user would hope = for.


Tim = Sassoon
Sassoon Film Design
2525 Main Street
Suite 206
Santa = Monica, CA 90405
W 310.664.9115
M 310.266.8630

On Jun 14, 2012, at 1:20 PM, Tony Romain wrote:

That's kind of = what I've been thinking too=85 just ditch everything in the computer = except for a souped up graphics card and processor.  Everything = else is external and thunderbolt = connected


--
tony = romain | = principal/creative director

trance
motion graphic animation = and design
323 651 = 1114

From: Tim Sassoon <tsassoon@aol.com>
Reply-To: AE list <AE-List@media-motion.tv>Date: Thursday, June 14, 2012 = 12:58 PM
To: AE list <AE-List@media-motion.tv>Subject: Re: [AE] [OT] The Mac = Pro is dead

Okay, decade, schmeckade. And I = know in all seriousness that you don't have a million bucks = :-)

But computing power generally has an inverse = proportion to size. In order to become more powerful, they must shrink. = Then there's Quantum Computing, where suddenly the current chip paradigm = looks like tubes and punch cards compared.

Most = of the space in a current tower are disk and peripheral bays, PCI slots, = and power supply. Disks will be SSD, and peripherals can be outboard, = Thunderbolt can supplant internal PCI, and then you only need a fraction = of the power supply. What do you have then? A Mac Mini with better = CPU's, pretty much. And I suspect that in the long run, that's Apple's = point. That instead of buying one Monster Truck of a computer, you'd be = better served by buying a fleet of = FIT's.


Tim Sassoon
SFD
Santa Monica, CA



On Jun 14, 2012, = at 11:39 AM, Stephen van Vuuren wrote:

> The "pro" computer ten = years from now will be the same size as today's iPhone.

I will bet a million dollars, in all seriousness, in = front  of all the witnesses here, that this is not the case. = Physics says no as does Moore=92s law and what we will be doing with = said computers in ten years.

I will agree the iPhone of ten = years from now will outperform todays tower. But I am sure enough to bet = a million dollars that pro=92s will need far more power than that. The = iPhone today much slower than the pro CPU in 2002. And the pro CPUs 10 = years ago can=92t run any recent version of CS6 (which requires Core 2 = Duo minimum).
 
Unless you are hoping some massive revolution in = chip/CPU/drive/RAM/storage, I think my best is pretty = safe.
 
Plus, my towers have been getting bigger over the last 10 = years, not smaller=85
 


<= /div>
=



= --Apple-Mail-1-629673636--