Return-Path: Received: from asbnvacz-mailrelay01.megapath.net ([207.145.128.243] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 4779288 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 18:41:53 +0200 Received: from mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net [69.17.117.53]) by asbnvacz-mailrelay01.megapath.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8C15A715AB for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:45:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 6846 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2012 16:45:38 -0000 Received: by simscan 1.4.0 ppid: 16763, pid: 12763, t: 0.6242s scanners: clamav: 0.88.2/m:52/d:13495 spam: 3.0.4 Received: from c-67-185-28-214.hsd1.wa.comcast.net (HELO jamess-mac-pro.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (albion@[67.185.28.214]) (envelope-sender ) by mail8.sea5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 18 Jul 2012 16:45:37 -0000 From: James Culbertson Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_20B9F466-9BA2-4D08-A744-6198596CD961" Subject: Re: [AE] Realworld CS6 Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 09:45:08 -0700 In-Reply-To: To: "After Effects Mail List" References: Message-Id: <3F04C6EF-DAF5-4792-A6BC-6586FC9B3F5D@speakeasy.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on mail8.sea5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=8.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=disabled version=3.0.4 --Apple-Mail=_20B9F466-9BA2-4D08-A744-6198596CD961 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well, this is generally true of forum complaints except in this case = there are a lot more than one or two, it just takes awhile for the = onslaught of "me too's" to kick in. I've been experimenting with Premiere CS6 as I have since CS4 or so. It = does appear now be caught up with FCP7 in terms of basic editing and = trimming. And it isn't crashing too much anymore -- only a couple of = times per session (with 10 clips or so in the project/timeline). But I = have no idea how things would be if I loaded it up with a feature length = doc. I would say I trust Premiere CS6 about as much as FCPX 10.0.5, which is = just barely. I wouldn't use either for long form yet. James On Jul 18, 2012, at 8:41 AM, Steve Oakley wrote: > you know the problem with forums ? one or two people have a problem, = yell a lot, and make like EVERYONE is having problems when in fact, its = mostly just them. >=20 > I've been running CS6 longer than anyone. I've been running it with = clients in the room just fine. all my editing work goes thru it and its = just fine for "professional" work. in fact it takes projects that simply = crushed FCP7. >=20 > I'm going to suggest as a first step, disable using the Kona for = output and see if most if not all problems go away. if they do, then the = problem is the AJA drivers. matrox and BMD drivers have been ok. >=20 > also in terms of sync, if you feed a monitor via HDMI, there is often = 1-2 frames of processing / delay in the monitor. this will put audio = from the card's outputs out of sync. use the monitor's speakers / audio = outs to feed real ones. >=20 > as for those other guys, there are so many things that could be going = on - starting with as one user suggested, bad RAM. A new OS install, a = drive check may be in order. one user was using a "1TB mirrored volume = (7200RPM drives) for media" which is probably resulting in a lot of = extra internal I/O and slower media access / bottlenecking. you also = don't know what other apps they may be running at the same time, or if = they have other stuff installed on their system that can cause problems = like perian codecs. >=20 > another source of magic problems is bad power. especially in summer = when you have AC units kicking on they will put heavy loads and spikes = into the power. I recall a client's system that was randomly crashing = all the time and they were going crazy. I say in front of it and saw it = crash at the same time their window AC unit kicked in. APS solved the = problem. >=20 > I'm not denying they have problems, its just that they have not done = very good trouble shooting to figure out what is really going on, nor = have they eliminated potential problems external to PP / AE >=20 > S >=20 >=20 > On Jul 18, 2012, at 9:52 AM, Jim Curtis wrote: >=20 >> I'll third my enthusiasm for Ae CS6. >>=20 >> But, I'm afraid I can't say the same for Pr. >>=20 >> There's a Serious Error thread on the Adobe Pr forum, with hundreds = of posts from editors who are reporting that the Serious Errors, = followed by an application exit, come every few seconds, making Pr = absolutely unsuited for professional editing. With that knowledge, = whenever I get one of these - and I've had about three so far - my heart = skips a beat. =20 >>=20 >> Even without the Serious Errors, it's pretty unreliable for = high-pressure work, or for client-in-the-room usage. With external = monitoring on my Kona, it's more often out of sync than in. With or = without the AJA engaged, the audio disappears, turns to noise, or is = choppy. At least 3/4 of the time I hit the spacebar, the audio is MIA = or crap. >>=20 >> Except for Dynamic Link, and without a CUDA card, there is no = advantage to editing in Pr over FCP or MC, IMO. Not until Adobe gets = the bugs worked out. To be fair, external monitoring does rely on = multiple vendors: AJA, nVidia and Apple. Hard to put the finger on = Adobe for sure, but external monitoring is solid on MC6 and FCP7 and X. >>=20 >> I was raving about the integration between Ae and Pr a few days ago, = and that still goes. When it works, it's wonderful. But, it doesn't = work all the time. >>=20 >> Luckily, I haven't had a nail-biting session yet. I'm bidding on a = project for an on-the-road-live-event-on-site-edit, and I'm concerned = that Pr will let me down in a crunch. I'll probably cut on FCP7 = instead. >>=20 >> I don't think Pr will ever have the responsiveness of FCP or MC, = based on my experience with CS 5, 5.5 and 6. You don't even get a = smooth display of frames when you scrub the CTI on an un-effected clip = in the source player. Avid and Apple have figured this out, but then, = they don't use CUDA. Not sure why CUDA and responsive playback don't = seem to be able to coexist in Pr. >=20 --Apple-Mail=_20B9F466-9BA2-4D08-A744-6198596CD961 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

I've been = experimenting with Premiere CS6 as I have since CS4 or so. It does = appear now be caught up with FCP7 in terms of basic editing and = trimming. And it isn't crashing too much anymore --  only a couple = of times per session (with 10 clips or so in the project/timeline). But = I have no idea how things would be if I loaded it up with a feature = length doc.

I would say I trust Premiere CS6 = about as much as FCPX 10.0.5, which is just barely. I wouldn't use = either for long form = yet.

James


On = Jul 18, 2012, at 8:41 AM, Steve Oakley wrote:

you know the problem with = forums ? one or two people have a problem, yell a lot, and make like = EVERYONE is having problems when in fact, its mostly just = them.

I've been running CS6 longer than anyone. I've = been running it with clients in the room just fine. all my editing work = goes thru it and its just fine for "professional" work. in fact it takes = projects that simply crushed FCP7.

I'm going to = suggest as a first step, disable using the Kona for output and see if = most if not all problems go away. if they do, then the problem is the = AJA drivers. matrox and BMD drivers have been = ok.

also in terms of sync, if you feed a = monitor via HDMI, there is often 1-2 frames of processing / delay in the = monitor. this will put audio from the card's outputs out of sync. use = the monitor's speakers / audio outs to feed real = ones.

as for those other guys, there are so = many things that could be going on - starting with as one user = suggested, bad RAM. A new OS install, a drive check may be in order. one = user was using a "1TB mirrored volume (7200RPM drives) for media" = which is probably resulting in a lot of extra internal I/O and slower = media access / bottlenecking. you also don't know what other apps they = may be running at the same time, or if they have other stuff installed = on their system that can cause problems like perian = codecs.

 another source = of magic problems is bad power. especially in summer when you have AC = units kicking on they will put heavy loads and spikes into the power. I = recall a client's system that was randomly crashing all the time and = they were going crazy. I say in front of it and saw it crash at the same = time their window AC unit kicked in. APS solved the = problem.

I'm not denying they = have problems, its just that they have not done very good trouble = shooting to figure out what is really going on, nor have they eliminated = potential problems external to PP / AE
S


On = Jul 18, 2012, at 9:52 AM, Jim Curtis wrote:

I'll third my enthusiasm for Ae = CS6.

But, I'm afraid I can't say the same for = Pr.

There's a Serious Error thread on the Adobe Pr = forum, with hundreds of posts from editors who are reporting that the = Serious Errors, followed by an application exit, come every few seconds, = making Pr absolutely unsuited for professional editing.  With that = knowledge, whenever I get one of these - and I've had about three so far = - my heart skips a beat.  

Even without = the Serious Errors, it's pretty unreliable for high-pressure work, or = for client-in-the-room usage.  With external monitoring on my Kona, = it's more often out of sync than in.  With or without the AJA = engaged, the audio disappears, turns to noise, or is choppy.  At = least 3/4 of the time I hit the spacebar, the audio is MIA or = crap.

Except for Dynamic Link, and without a = CUDA card, there is no advantage to editing in Pr over FCP or MC, IMO. =  Not until Adobe gets the bugs worked out.  To be fair, = external monitoring does rely on multiple vendors: AJA, nVidia and = Apple.  Hard to put the finger on Adobe for sure, but external = monitoring is solid on MC6 and FCP7 and X.

I = was raving about the integration between Ae and Pr a few days ago, and = that still goes.  When it works, it's wonderful.  But, it = doesn't work all the time.

Luckily, I haven't = had a nail-biting session yet.  I'm bidding on a project for an = on-the-road-live-event-on-site-edit, and I'm concerned that Pr will let = me down in a crunch.  I'll probably cut on FCP7 = instead.

I don't think Pr will ever have the = responsiveness of FCP or MC, based on my experience with CS 5, 5.5 and = 6.  You don't even get a smooth display of frames when you scrub = the CTI on an un-effected clip in the source player.  Avid and = Apple have figured this out, but then, they don't use CUDA.  Not = sure why CUDA and responsive playback don't seem to be able to coexist = in = Pr.


= --Apple-Mail=_20B9F466-9BA2-4D08-A744-6198596CD961--