Return-Path: Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.195] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 4779306 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 19:15:03 +0200 Received: from [10.1.1.22] (71-13-195-18.static.eucl.wi.charter.com [71.13.195.18]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0M5dlA-1Tok9R0X1M-00xXKb; Wed, 18 Jul 2012 13:18:50 -0400 From: Steve Oakley Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3413673C-D434-4BC3-91C5-1622E2B2235C" Subject: Re: [AE] Realworld CS6 Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:18:47 -0500 In-Reply-To: To: "After Effects Mail List" References: Message-Id: <70FEEC7A-1DF7-4822-8A65-D5756D517F8F@practicali.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:XuqAe2IRsZqtMo83g40yZDwShtaVejErIGd3UdehuiK atRES/T3vzKnHFDhXZ8E5p+NNru2YKwF7f06eqop53D0/sMiFS qou4GxE1X97eAZW6YdLePNHb+zYmGUhyD2rWQ5XmPJO9m83d5u yOyrB+xWZxSZvFebNdAcGWUcUVTFb0g4y0aBQXzT8iSh4QDxjC vvfDBBtmnhGyXiBnU/XixApPEVA6RDi5oxH8DKgSXPb1D8JaSA zqMEwiUOq2GEcZ92M/VnD9evHRShUgC4tM8xcFT7KHDnL9N8NL 57Z5o8W8vFzkB04hlmdb53NyNoDlKfi8CfidPGxPl/WpVjFUMN svIB/TGwDpVOixvS845DGHmQnPN8ZV7hufJOPC/VGLyRJrkHrg Jb3VGwcBv2ApQ== --Apple-Mail=_3413673C-D434-4BC3-91C5-1622E2B2235C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Jul 18, 2012, at 11:27 AM, Jim Curtis wrote: > I generally do disable my Kona for the editing stage, and I have APCs = for power conditioning. But, the audio problems I mentioned persist. My = Mac is handling all the audio - no special drivers for a third party = interface, yet I have a one in four chance my audio will even sound when = I hit the spacebar. That's my main issue with Pr CS6 at this point. =20 you mean you are using the mac's mobo audio outputs ? if yes thats the = problem right there. always use the I/O' cards audio outs.=20 > I know from previous posts that your set-up and mine are very similar. = If audio is rock solid reliable 24/7 for you, that gives me some hope = I'll be able to fix it over here. audio has been good using either matrox, BMD or built in audio. for a = while I did have an odd problem that went away with 6.0.1 > Sorry to repeat, but I'm not beset with the Serious Errors as some on = that thread are. I got several in rapid succession on one occasion. = And having read about how that was a job killer, I did a Full Monty: = Disk Warrior, Repair Permissions, zap PRAM, delete caches and previews, = and reinstalled Pr with fresh Preferences. That vanquished the Serious = Errors for several days. The next time I got one, I just deleted the = caches and previews, and I was back in business. ok, good hint - which caches ? adobe ? system ? other ? also, one user was complaining about playback. his TL's were all dymanic = link clips... and trying to play that off of an internal laptop hard = drive. does that user know that either AE headless is rendering it on = the fly or if in cache, they are uncompressed and potentially 16 or = 32bit color files ? no a single laptop drive won't that... SSD yes. = mostly user error here also having the latest CUDA driver is important. it was 4.2.7 I think = was a real problem and 4.2.9+ fixed it. 4.2.10 is current and has been = good. S > On Jul 18, 2012, at 10:41 AM, Steve Oakley wrote: >=20 >> you know the problem with forums ? one or two people have a problem, = yell a lot, and make like EVERYONE is having problems when in fact, its = mostly just them. >>=20 >> I've been running CS6 longer than anyone. I've been running it with = clients in the room just fine. all my editing work goes thru it and its = just fine for "professional" work. in fact it takes projects that simply = crushed FCP7. >>=20 >> I'm going to suggest as a first step, disable using the Kona for = output and see if most if not all problems go away. if they do, then the = problem is the AJA drivers. matrox and BMD drivers have been ok. >>=20 >> also in terms of sync, if you feed a monitor via HDMI, there is often = 1-2 frames of processing / delay in the monitor. this will put audio = from the card's outputs out of sync. use the monitor's speakers / audio = outs to feed real ones. >>=20 >> as for those other guys, there are so many things that could be going = on - starting with as one user suggested, bad RAM. A new OS install, a = drive check may be in order. one user was using a "1TB mirrored volume = (7200RPM drives) for media" which is probably resulting in a lot of = extra internal I/O and slower media access / bottlenecking. you also = don't know what other apps they may be running at the same time, or if = they have other stuff installed on their system that can cause problems = like perian codecs. >>=20 >> another source of magic problems is bad power. especially in summer = when you have AC units kicking on they will put heavy loads and spikes = into the power. I recall a client's system that was randomly crashing = all the time and they were going crazy. I say in front of it and saw it = crash at the same time their window AC unit kicked in. APS solved the = problem. >>=20 >> I'm not denying they have problems, its just that they have not done = very good trouble shooting to figure out what is really going on, nor = have they eliminated potential problems external to PP / AE >>=20 >> S >>=20 >>=20 >> On Jul 18, 2012, at 9:52 AM, Jim Curtis wrote: >>=20 >>> I'll third my enthusiasm for Ae CS6. >>>=20 >>> But, I'm afraid I can't say the same for Pr. >>>=20 >>> There's a Serious Error thread on the Adobe Pr forum, with hundreds = of posts from editors who are reporting that the Serious Errors, = followed by an application exit, come every few seconds, making Pr = absolutely unsuited for professional editing. With that knowledge, = whenever I get one of these - and I've had about three so far - my heart = skips a beat. =20 >>>=20 >>> Even without the Serious Errors, it's pretty unreliable for = high-pressure work, or for client-in-the-room usage. With external = monitoring on my Kona, it's more often out of sync than in. With or = without the AJA engaged, the audio disappears, turns to noise, or is = choppy. At least 3/4 of the time I hit the spacebar, the audio is MIA = or crap. >>>=20 >>> Except for Dynamic Link, and without a CUDA card, there is no = advantage to editing in Pr over FCP or MC, IMO. Not until Adobe gets = the bugs worked out. To be fair, external monitoring does rely on = multiple vendors: AJA, nVidia and Apple. Hard to put the finger on = Adobe for sure, but external monitoring is solid on MC6 and FCP7 and X. >>>=20 >>> I was raving about the integration between Ae and Pr a few days ago, = and that still goes. When it works, it's wonderful. But, it doesn't = work all the time. >>>=20 >>> Luckily, I haven't had a nail-biting session yet. I'm bidding on a = project for an on-the-road-live-event-on-site-edit, and I'm concerned = that Pr will let me down in a crunch. I'll probably cut on FCP7 = instead. >>>=20 >>> I don't think Pr will ever have the responsiveness of FCP or MC, = based on my experience with CS 5, 5.5 and 6. You don't even get a = smooth display of frames when you scrub the CTI on an un-effected clip = in the source player. Avid and Apple have figured this out, but then, = they don't use CUDA. Not sure why CUDA and responsive playback don't = seem to be able to coexist in Pr. >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_3413673C-D434-4BC3-91C5-1622E2B2235C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I generally do disable my Kona for the editing = stage, and I have APCs for power conditioning. But, the audio problems I = mentioned persist.  My Mac is handling all the audio - no special = drivers for a third party interface, yet I have a one in four chance my = audio will even sound when I hit the spacebar.  That's my main = issue with Pr CS6 at this point. =  

you mean you are = using the mac's mobo audio outputs ? if yes thats the problem right = there. always use the I/O' cards audio = outs. 


I know from previous posts = that your set-up and mine are very similar.  If audio is rock solid = reliable 24/7 for you, that gives me some hope I'll be able to fix it = over here.

audio has been good = using either matrox, BMD or built in audio. for a while I did have an = odd problem that went away with = 6.0.1


Sorry to repeat, but I'm = not beset with the Serious Errors as some on that thread are.  I = got several in rapid succession on one occasion.  And having read = about how that was a job killer, I did a Full Monty: Disk Warrior, = Repair Permissions, zap PRAM, delete caches and previews, and = reinstalled Pr with fresh Preferences.  That vanquished the Serious = Errors for several days.  The next time I got one, I just deleted = the caches and previews, and I was back in = business.

ok, = good hint - which caches ? adobe ? system ? other = ?

also, one user was complaining about = playback. his TL's were all dymanic link clips... and trying to play = that off of an internal laptop hard drive. does that user know that = either AE headless is rendering it on the fly or if in cache, they are = uncompressed and potentially 16 or 32bit color files ? no a single = laptop drive won't that... SSD yes. mostly user error = here

also having the latest CUDA driver is = important. it was 4.2.7 I think was a real problem and 4.2.9+ fixed it. = 4.2.10 is current and has been = good.

S



you know the problem = with forums ? one or two people have a problem, yell a lot, and make = like EVERYONE is having problems when in fact, its mostly just = them.

I've been running CS6 longer than anyone. I've = been running it with clients in the room just fine. all my editing work = goes thru it and its just fine for "professional" work. in fact it takes = projects that simply crushed FCP7.

I'm going to = suggest as a first step, disable using the Kona for output and see if = most if not all problems go away. if they do, then the problem is the = AJA drivers. matrox and BMD drivers have been = ok.

also in terms of sync, if you feed a = monitor via HDMI, there is often 1-2 frames of processing / delay in the = monitor. this will put audio from the card's outputs out of sync. use = the monitor's speakers / audio outs to feed real = ones.

as for those other guys, there are so = many things that could be going on - starting with as one user = suggested, bad RAM. A new OS install, a drive check may be in order. one = user was using a "1TB mirrored volume (7200RPM drives) for media" = which is probably resulting in a lot of extra internal I/O and slower = media access / bottlenecking. you also don't know what other apps they = may be running at the same time, or if they have other stuff installed = on their system that can cause problems like perian = codecs.

 another source = of magic problems is bad power. especially in summer when you have AC = units kicking on they will put heavy loads and spikes into the power. I = recall a client's system that was randomly crashing all the time and = they were going crazy. I say in front of it and saw it crash at the same = time their window AC unit kicked in. APS solved the = problem.

I'm not denying they = have problems, its just that they have not done very good trouble = shooting to figure out what is really going on, nor have they eliminated = potential problems external to PP / AE
S


On = Jul 18, 2012, at 9:52 AM, Jim Curtis wrote:

I'll third my enthusiasm for Ae = CS6.

But, I'm afraid I can't say the same for = Pr.

There's a Serious Error thread on the Adobe Pr = forum, with hundreds of posts from editors who are reporting that the = Serious Errors, followed by an application exit, come every few seconds, = making Pr absolutely unsuited for professional editing.  With that = knowledge, whenever I get one of these - and I've had about three so far = - my heart skips a beat.  

Even without = the Serious Errors, it's pretty unreliable for high-pressure work, or = for client-in-the-room usage.  With external monitoring on my Kona, = it's more often out of sync than in.  With or without the AJA = engaged, the audio disappears, turns to noise, or is choppy.  At = least 3/4 of the time I hit the spacebar, the audio is MIA or = crap.

Except for Dynamic Link, and without a = CUDA card, there is no advantage to editing in Pr over FCP or MC, IMO. =  Not until Adobe gets the bugs worked out.  To be fair, = external monitoring does rely on multiple vendors: AJA, nVidia and = Apple.  Hard to put the finger on Adobe for sure, but external = monitoring is solid on MC6 and FCP7 and X.

I = was raving about the integration between Ae and Pr a few days ago, and = that still goes.  When it works, it's wonderful.  But, it = doesn't work all the time.

Luckily, I haven't = had a nail-biting session yet.  I'm bidding on a project for an = on-the-road-live-event-on-site-edit, and I'm concerned that Pr will let = me down in a crunch.  I'll probably cut on FCP7 = instead.

I don't think Pr will ever have the = responsiveness of FCP or MC, based on my experience with CS 5, 5.5 and = 6.  You don't even get a smooth display of frames when you scrub = the CTI on an un-effected clip in the source player.  Avid and = Apple have figured this out, but then, they don't use CUDA.  Not = sure why CUDA and responsive playback don't seem to be able to coexist = in = Pr.



= --Apple-Mail=_3413673C-D434-4BC3-91C5-1622E2B2235C--