Return-Path: Received: from mail-pb0-f41.google.com ([209.85.160.41] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4780168 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:37:58 +0200 Received: by pbbrp2 with SMTP id rp2so4879936pbb.28 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:41:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=from:mime-version:content-type:subject:date:in-reply-to:to :references:message-id:x-mailer; bh=Nim/BvHKXbVFlr1LK0foaq2BFSNK8EfLynLojyl/VsM=; b=HQuQY1FxKAIrdIGO7c+zwsJKmeW+zOO1ilgEmWrGqSVn7kE6cbjlx78eeS94vf2jlQ NzXsya1VbvPkKDRCEKSyR0zgG/0plV0nfbbiY+NrBfe5vRve9rCXrHS7iAuoSIgJwBgk VWmGpqe3L17AXLArWI/VsNzGzTSQAclxJAeb4CL5OYHgI3RFAIIw95oV7RFMVMDZUCDy fkBSy4l1da9nfCtEXSubCs8+NvqeCynk45D1v0L7KrBX3Nrs15uJlqBf8UnbRSzaKVWB neVb1MJy6TPkF0Rvlp8o8ayLlY6vLg7kFatNFCdQ4yUeDdgLBoi+sA0ZUZj9wl2rBGzZ gDlg== Received: by 10.68.221.38 with SMTP id qb6mr7945161pbc.144.1342730506635; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [10.0.1.21] ([50.0.205.180]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id rx7sm2413588pbc.64.2012.07.19.13.41.44 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:41:45 -0700 (PDT) From: patrick siemer Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-5--648916808 Subject: Re: [AE] Adobe Cloud vs ordinary CS6 upgrade Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 13:41:43 -0700 In-Reply-To: To: "After Effects Mail List" References: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) --Apple-Mail-5--648916808 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was only asking for clarification. Dann. The whole gist of this thread is please mind your manners. Be aware we are real people here. with feelings. by the way, my text is large type because of these darn tiny retina = pixels. I did not want to imply I was yelling by increasing the font size. Chuckle? LOL? lighten up? -patrick On Jul 19, 2012, at 1:22 PM, Dann Stubbs wrote: > apparently the problem is you don't think other people can have their = own opinion >=20 > ___________________________________________________________________ >=20 > Dann Stubbs - dann@darkskydigital.com > Dark Sky Digital - http://www.darkskydigital.com >=20 > http://www.RenderKing.com Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm > ___________________________________________________________________ >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Jul 19, 2012, at 4:20 PM, patrick siemer wrote: >=20 >> Wow!=20 >> Dann, >> I thought adobe was in business to make great software. Call me = naive, but adobe makes amazing product. because they are so good at it, = they make lots of cash too. >> They don't force or "cram" packages at anyone.=20 >> what makes you think that? bundles save customers money.=20 >> I buy those bundles, I save money. >> what is so bad about that. No one forced me to bundle anything. >> I also own individual licenses for Multiple copies of ae, ps and ai. >> Because it made sense, I did not need the bundles. >> I saved money. >> what is the problem? >> -patrick >>=20 >>=20 >> On Jul 19, 2012, at 1:10 PM, Dann Stubbs wrote: >>=20 >>> personally i don't benefit from the whole cram everything into one = package mentality that adobe is copying from microsoft. >>>=20 >>> it fostered competition in the market when each package stood on = it's own and you could buy another that filled the need better (or not) >>>=20 >>> the bundle mentality of an industry giant does nothing but crowd out = most small developers who just can't compete when everyone who needs the = industry standard "photoshop" gets a bunch of other stuff included for = "free" already. it's hard to compete with something that is essentially = "free" and everyone has already. >>>=20 >>> let's be real - adobe is a business... they are only in business to = make money - like most. i don't see the prices getting any less = expensive because they have the users best interest at heart. those = executive bonus' don't pay for themselves you know... >>>=20 >>> i do see the benefit of small or home users now being able to = "afford" the subscription as a benefit - but it was not done out of = generosity - it was done to gain entry/grow market share in a new = demographic. nothing altruistic about it. >>>=20 >>> once the bean counters run the numbers on the projected revenue = stream - the price will go up. >>>=20 >>> a handful of years ago parking at disney was free, then a few = dollars, now it's like what $14 per car? to sit in their lot while you = pay another $100 per ticket to get in! this is adobe's parking lot = fee... >>>=20 >>> the new business mentality is everything is a revenue stream. the = subscription model will become no different... to act like it's not is = kinda silly. >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>>=20 >>> Dann Stubbs - dann@darkskydigital.com >>> Dark Sky Digital - http://www.darkskydigital.com >>>=20 >>> http://www.RenderKing.com Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Jul 19, 2012, at 3:46 PM, Todd Kopriva wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Wow. I try not to take things like this personally but... Is there = anything that we could do to prevent you from assuming the worst when = we're trying to create options that you'll actually benefit from? >>>>=20 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On >>>>> Behalf Of Dann Stubbs >>>>>=20 >>>>> ding, ding, ding >>>>>=20 >>>>> give that man a prize >>>>>=20 >>>>> = ___________________________________________________________________ >>>>>=20 >>>>> Dann Stubbs - dann@darkskydigital.com >>>>> Dark Sky Digital - http://www.darkskydigital.com >>>>>=20 >>>>> http://www.RenderKing.com Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm >>>>> = ___________________________________________________________________ >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Jul 19, 2012, at 3:24 PM, Mike Abbott wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> $599 per year for subscription version.. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I wonder how long it will take for Adobe to start ramping up the >>>>> annual >>>>>> subscription cost - once we're all hooked ;) >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> +---End of message---+ >>>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> +---End of message---+ >>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-5--648916808 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii I was only asking = for clarification. Dann.

The whole gist of this thread is please mind = your manners.
Be aware we are real = people here. with feelings.
by the = way, my text is large type because of these darn tiny retina = pixels.
I did not want to imply I = was yelling by increasing the font size.
Chuckle? LOL?
lighten = up?
-patrick


On Jul 19, = 2012, at 1:22 PM, Dann Stubbs wrote:

apparently the problem is you = don't think other people can have their own = opinion


Dann = Stubbs  -  dann@darkskydigital.com
<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">Dark Sky Digital -  http://www.darkskydigital.com<= /div>

http://www.RenderKing.com &nb= sp;Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm


On Jul 19, 2012, at 4:20 PM, patrick siemer = wrote:

Dann,
They don't force or "cram" packages at = anyone. 
what makes you think that? bundles save customers = money. 
I buy those bundles, I save money.
what is so bad about that. No one = forced me to bundle anything.
I also own individual licenses for = Multiple copies of ae, ps and ai.
Because it made sense, I did not = need the bundles.
I saved money.
what is the = problem?
-patrick


On Jul 19, 2012, at 1:10 PM, Dann Stubbs = wrote:

personally i don't benefit from the whole cram = everything into one package mentality that adobe is copying from = microsoft.

it fostered competition in the market when each = package stood on it's own and you could buy another that filled the need = better (or not)

the bundle mentality of an industry giant does = nothing but crowd out most small developers who just can't compete when = everyone who needs the industry standard "photoshop" gets a bunch of = other stuff included for "free" already. it's hard to compete with = something that is essentially "free" and everyone has = already.

let's be real - adobe is a business... they are only in = business to make money - like most. i don't see the prices getting any = less expensive because they have the users best interest at heart. those = executive bonus' don't pay for themselves you know...

i do see = the benefit of small or home users now being able to "afford" the = subscription as a benefit - but it was not done out of generosity - it = was done to gain entry/grow market share in a new demographic. nothing = altruistic about it.

once the bean counters run the numbers on = the projected revenue stream - the price will go up.

a handful of = years ago parking at disney was free, then a few dollars, now it's like = what $14 per car? to sit in their lot while you pay another $100 per = ticket to get in! this is adobe's parking lot fee...

the new = business mentality is everything is a revenue stream. the subscription = model will become no different... to act like it's not is kinda = silly.
________________________________________________________________= ___

Dann Stubbs  -  dann@darkskydigital.com
Dar= k Sky Digital -  http://www.darkskydigital.com<= br>
http://www.RenderKing.com =  Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render = Farm
__________________________________________________________________= _



On Jul 19, 2012, at 3:46 PM, Todd Kopriva = wrote:

Wow. I try not to take things = like this personally but... Is there anything that we could do to = prevent you from assuming the worst when we're trying to create options = that you'll actually benefit from?

-----Original = Message-----
From: After Effects Mail List = [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] = On
Behalf Of Dann = Stubbs

ding, ding, = ding

give that man a = prize

____________________________________________________________= _______

Dann Stubbs  -  dann@darkskydigital.com
Dark Sky Digital -  http://www.darkskydigital.com<= br>

http://www.RenderKing.com =  Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render = Farm
____________________________________________________________= _______



On Jul 19, 2012, at 3:24 PM, = Mike Abbott wrote:



$599 = per year for subscription = version..


I = wonder how long it will take for Adobe to start ramping up = the
annual
subscription cost - once we're all hooked = ;)


+---End of = message---+
To unsubscribe = send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>



+---End of message---+
To = unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>



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