Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 4780187 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:54:54 +0200 Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=QrvcLCOd c=1 sm=0 a=nSwYzG3nL+YYqzdGadiYmA==:17 a=j74oHANl87gA:10 a=qy3df62GXmwA:10 a=6QVzGSgJaQ4A:10 a=n_cyjgRKAAAA:8 a=0NtdC1r0AAAA:8 a=ByW4ttFX06we1iuphoYA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=Hiit177yz3gA:10 a=chl86e-Gzjq9ge9L:21 a=5l5jSNgyefOIrdxK:21 a=ujisJaYr-QVK_Qq5RAUA:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=nSwYzG3nL+YYqzdGadiYmA==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 24.73.238.28 Received: from [24.73.238.28] ([24.73.238.28:52647] helo=[192.168.0.2]) by cdptpa-oedge04.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 16/FC-28917-40578005; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 20:58:44 +0000 From: Dann Stubbs Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-12--647896226 Subject: Re: [AE] Adobe Cloud vs ordinary CS6 upgrade Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 16:58:43 -0400 In-Reply-To: To: "After Effects Mail List" References: Message-Id: <7D73C5AC-9BC5-484F-A35C-D73E782C5B39@darkskydigital.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) --Apple-Mail-12--647896226 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii that is funny about the font size - i was kinda wondering why you typed = so large ; ) yes there are benefits to the subscription model for some - another one = that was mentioned was the ability to add some seats for a short term = need - that is a great use of the subscription for sure... i'm sure = adobe was hoping that cuts down on the casual pirating too. one thing i don't like about the big bundles is when one package has had = some major updates/upgrades then they often force in some weak feature = the other package in effort to justify the new bundle upgrade so that = each item within can now be considered "upgraded" and the stand alone = packages often get "upgraded" too i just think of the possibility from both sides - but once adobe has a = set number of users - they will not be able to resist increasing that = cloud fee as an easy revenue gain. to each their own. i will prefer not to use the cloud model... some will = enjoy it and benefit from it. i just hope it does not fizzle out in a = couple years (like .mac did, or internet "portals" etc) and then leave a = bunch of users stuck with data they can't access... or worse IMHO like = someone else said they do away with the standalone packages and go = "cloud only" as that is not my first choice... but we are all at the = mercy of the mothership. so i guess we will wait and see. dann ___________________________________________________________________ Dann Stubbs - dann@darkskydigital.com Dark Sky Digital - http://www.darkskydigital.com http://www.RenderKing.com Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm ___________________________________________________________________ On Jul 19, 2012, at 4:41 PM, patrick siemer wrote: > I was only asking for clarification. Dann. >=20 > The whole gist of this thread is please mind your manners. > Be aware we are real people here. with feelings. > by the way, my text is large type because of these darn tiny retina = pixels. > I did not want to imply I was yelling by increasing the font size. > Chuckle? LOL? > lighten up? > -patrick >=20 >=20 > On Jul 19, 2012, at 1:22 PM, Dann Stubbs wrote: >=20 >> apparently the problem is you don't think other people can have their = own opinion >>=20 >> ___________________________________________________________________ >>=20 >> Dann Stubbs - dann@darkskydigital.com >> Dark Sky Digital - http://www.darkskydigital.com >>=20 >> http://www.RenderKing.com Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm >> ___________________________________________________________________ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Jul 19, 2012, at 4:20 PM, patrick siemer wrote: >>=20 >>> Wow!=20 >>> Dann, >>> I thought adobe was in business to make great software. Call me = naive, but adobe makes amazing product. because they are so good at it, = they make lots of cash too. >>> They don't force or "cram" packages at anyone.=20 >>> what makes you think that? bundles save customers money.=20 >>> I buy those bundles, I save money. >>> what is so bad about that. No one forced me to bundle anything. >>> I also own individual licenses for Multiple copies of ae, ps and ai. >>> Because it made sense, I did not need the bundles. >>> I saved money. >>> what is the problem? >>> -patrick >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Jul 19, 2012, at 1:10 PM, Dann Stubbs wrote: >>>=20 >>>> personally i don't benefit from the whole cram everything into one = package mentality that adobe is copying from microsoft. >>>>=20 >>>> it fostered competition in the market when each package stood on = it's own and you could buy another that filled the need better (or not) >>>>=20 >>>> the bundle mentality of an industry giant does nothing but crowd = out most small developers who just can't compete when everyone who needs = the industry standard "photoshop" gets a bunch of other stuff included = for "free" already. it's hard to compete with something that is = essentially "free" and everyone has already. >>>>=20 >>>> let's be real - adobe is a business... they are only in business to = make money - like most. i don't see the prices getting any less = expensive because they have the users best interest at heart. those = executive bonus' don't pay for themselves you know... >>>>=20 >>>> i do see the benefit of small or home users now being able to = "afford" the subscription as a benefit - but it was not done out of = generosity - it was done to gain entry/grow market share in a new = demographic. nothing altruistic about it. >>>>=20 >>>> once the bean counters run the numbers on the projected revenue = stream - the price will go up. >>>>=20 >>>> a handful of years ago parking at disney was free, then a few = dollars, now it's like what $14 per car? to sit in their lot while you = pay another $100 per ticket to get in! this is adobe's parking lot = fee... >>>>=20 >>>> the new business mentality is everything is a revenue stream. the = subscription model will become no different... to act like it's not is = kinda silly. >>>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>>>=20 >>>> Dann Stubbs - dann@darkskydigital.com >>>> Dark Sky Digital - http://www.darkskydigital.com >>>>=20 >>>> http://www.RenderKing.com Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm >>>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On Jul 19, 2012, at 3:46 PM, Todd Kopriva wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> Wow. I try not to take things like this personally but... Is there = anything that we could do to prevent you from assuming the worst when = we're trying to create options that you'll actually benefit from? >>>>>=20 >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On >>>>>> Behalf Of Dann Stubbs >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> ding, ding, ding >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> give that man a prize >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> = ___________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Dann Stubbs - dann@darkskydigital.com >>>>>> Dark Sky Digital - http://www.darkskydigital.com >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> http://www.RenderKing.com Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm >>>>>> = ___________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Jul 19, 2012, at 3:24 PM, Mike Abbott wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> $599 per year for subscription version.. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I wonder how long it will take for Adobe to start ramping up the >>>>>> annual >>>>>>> subscription cost - once we're all hooked ;) >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> +---End of message---+ >>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> +---End of message---+ >>>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-12--647896226 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii that = is funny about the font size - i was kinda wondering why you typed so = large ; )

yes there are benefits to the subscription = model for some - another one that was mentioned was the ability to add = some seats for a short term need - that is a great use of the = subscription for sure... i'm sure adobe was hoping that cuts down on the = casual pirating too.

one thing i don't like = about the big bundles is when one package has had some major = updates/upgrades then they often force in some weak feature the other = package in effort to justify the new bundle upgrade so that each item = within can now be considered "upgraded" and the stand alone packages = often get "upgraded" too

i just think of the = possibility from both sides - but once adobe has a set number of users - = they will not be able to resist increasing that cloud fee as an easy = revenue gain.

to each their own. i will prefer = not to use the cloud model... some will enjoy it and benefit from it. i = just hope it does not fizzle out in a couple years (like .mac did, or = internet "portals" etc) and then leave a bunch of users stuck with data = they can't access... or worse IMHO like someone else said they do away = with the standalone packages and go "cloud only" as that is not my first = choice... but we are all at the mercy of the mothership. so i guess we = will wait and see.

dann

Dann = Stubbs  -  dann@darkskydigital.com
<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">Dark Sky Digital -  http://www.darkskydigital.com

http://www.RenderKing.com &nbs= p;Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm



On Jul 19, 2012, at 4:41 PM, patrick siemer = wrote:

I was only asking = for clarification. Dann.

The whole gist of this thread is please mind = your manners.
Be aware we are real = people here. with feelings.
by the = way, my text is large type because of these darn tiny retina = pixels.
I did not want to imply I = was yelling by increasing the font size.
Chuckle? LOL?
lighten = up?
-patrick


On Jul 19, = 2012, at 1:22 PM, Dann Stubbs wrote:

apparently the problem is you = don't think other people can have their own = opinion


Dann = Stubbs  -  dann@darkskydigital.com
<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">Dark Sky Digital -  http://www.darkskydigital.com<= /div>

http://www.RenderKing.com &nb= sp;Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm


On Jul 19, 2012, at 4:20 PM, patrick siemer = wrote:

Dann,
They don't force or "cram" packages at = anyone. 
what makes you think that? bundles save customers = money. 
I buy those bundles, I save money.
what is so bad about that. No one = forced me to bundle anything.
I also own individual licenses for = Multiple copies of ae, ps and ai.
Because it made sense, I did not = need the bundles.
I saved money.
what is the = problem?
-patrick


On Jul 19, 2012, at 1:10 PM, Dann Stubbs = wrote:

personally i don't benefit from the whole cram = everything into one package mentality that adobe is copying from = microsoft.

it fostered competition in the market when each = package stood on it's own and you could buy another that filled the need = better (or not)

the bundle mentality of an industry giant does = nothing but crowd out most small developers who just can't compete when = everyone who needs the industry standard "photoshop" gets a bunch of = other stuff included for "free" already. it's hard to compete with = something that is essentially "free" and everyone has = already.

let's be real - adobe is a business... they are only in = business to make money - like most. i don't see the prices getting any = less expensive because they have the users best interest at heart. those = executive bonus' don't pay for themselves you know...

i do see = the benefit of small or home users now being able to "afford" the = subscription as a benefit - but it was not done out of generosity - it = was done to gain entry/grow market share in a new demographic. nothing = altruistic about it.

once the bean counters run the numbers on = the projected revenue stream - the price will go up.

a handful of = years ago parking at disney was free, then a few dollars, now it's like = what $14 per car? to sit in their lot while you pay another $100 per = ticket to get in! this is adobe's parking lot fee...

the new = business mentality is everything is a revenue stream. the subscription = model will become no different... to act like it's not is kinda = silly.
________________________________________________________________= ___

Dann Stubbs  -  dann@darkskydigital.com
Dar= k Sky Digital -  http://www.darkskydigital.com<= br>
http://www.RenderKing.com =  Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render = Farm
__________________________________________________________________= _



On Jul 19, 2012, at 3:46 PM, Todd Kopriva = wrote:

Wow. I try not to take things = like this personally but... Is there anything that we could do to = prevent you from assuming the worst when we're trying to create options = that you'll actually benefit from?

-----Original = Message-----
From: After Effects Mail List = [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] = On
Behalf Of Dann = Stubbs

ding, ding, = ding

give that man a = prize

____________________________________________________________= _______

Dann Stubbs  -  dann@darkskydigital.com
Dark Sky Digital -  http://www.darkskydigital.com<= br>

http://www.RenderKing.com =  Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render = Farm
____________________________________________________________= _______



On Jul 19, 2012, at 3:24 PM, = Mike Abbott wrote:



$599 = per year for subscription = version..


I = wonder how long it will take for Adobe to start ramping up = the
annual
subscription cost - once we're all hooked = ;)


+---End of = message---+
To unsubscribe = send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>



+---End of message---+
To = unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>




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