Return-Path: Received: from mail-pb0-f41.google.com ([209.85.160.41] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4780198 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 23:20:52 +0200 Received: by pbbrp2 with SMTP id rp2so4930681pbb.28 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:24:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:mime-version:content-type:subject:date:in-reply-to:to :references:message-id:x-mailer; bh=r2/8GJoWREn6LnJRo+OzmyIu4ILP2Z6Bdc8sXEP8wNI=; b=Pc/1Onpn16o/db4+RMZ5nWUvGOtuZU3WHWa9TOh8imG2+f8DxoSHqSauC6M1F+Sp6+ 9/r3VkrcceTB4W8sRCqbZx/RnbUpK9rcvhzRWrZenyjT4RqmqIo1+N/zaJhdiOd/w460 PQKLTAnxSJcGPXrxyLTwZi3cfETiPIE3fowdGnRB0WpwtgQjcgu9Q6m8N2S6e3nMyP74 XjH8uJJADMEvn7nfP9PORfGNSdV/LLpOlIFBTvk13qPE7LVL10wd9T9SKZOPxpjBn25t hVahZR9XBRSq+/bnWMsMSQp+tRct3YjNvvHD7bc6znhRt/eqmtcXKkgNBhfnOwLwE5Kc LFOA== Received: by 10.68.220.193 with SMTP id py1mr8619329pbc.4.1342733080963; Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [10.0.1.21] ([50.0.205.180]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ru10sm2471847pbc.50.2012.07.19.14.24.38 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:24:40 -0700 (PDT) From: patrick siemer Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6--646341701 Subject: Re: [AE] Adobe Cloud vs ordinary CS6 upgrade Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 14:24:38 -0700 In-Reply-To: To: "After Effects Mail List" References: Message-Id: <51C9DFA4-E4E0-47BE-AAC4-D3A97744B561@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) --Apple-Mail-6--646341701 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I agree with you about some past suite upgrades being a bit weak on some = of the software, but=20 overall I think there has always been great value.=20 About the mothership....funny, I see it the other way, I don't think = adobe is going to fold up shop in a couple years and shaft their = customers. Instead I think Adobe is more at the mercy of their (paying) = customers,=20 (Yes, and stockholders too.) We help to define the moves that adobe makes. They listen to their = customers. they will do what we drive them to do. If few people buy subscriptions, I don't expect them to last long.=20 I love owning licenses too, especially for older computers, who still = need a purpose in their old- age. Thank you for your opinions, and for the lively debate. Now, back to workl! patrick siemer tapeandglue.com On Jul 19, 2012, at 1:58 PM, Dann Stubbs wrote: > that is funny about the font size - i was kinda wondering why you = typed so large ; ) >=20 > yes there are benefits to the subscription model for some - another = one that was mentioned was the ability to add some seats for a short = term need - that is a great use of the subscription for sure... i'm sure = adobe was hoping that cuts down on the casual pirating too. >=20 > one thing i don't like about the big bundles is when one package has = had some major updates/upgrades then they often force in some weak = feature the other package in effort to justify the new bundle upgrade so = that each item within can now be considered "upgraded" and the stand = alone packages often get "upgraded" too >=20 > i just think of the possibility from both sides - but once adobe has a = set number of users - they will not be able to resist increasing that = cloud fee as an easy revenue gain. >=20 > to each their own. i will prefer not to use the cloud model... some = will enjoy it and benefit from it. i just hope it does not fizzle out in = a couple years (like .mac did, or internet "portals" etc) and then leave = a bunch of users stuck with data they can't access... or worse IMHO like = someone else said they do away with the standalone packages and go = "cloud only" as that is not my first choice... but we are all at the = mercy of the mothership. so i guess we will wait and see. >=20 > dann > ___________________________________________________________________ >=20 > Dann Stubbs - dann@darkskydigital.com > Dark Sky Digital - http://www.darkskydigital.com >=20 > http://www.RenderKing.com Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm > ___________________________________________________________________ >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Jul 19, 2012, at 4:41 PM, patrick siemer wrote: >=20 >> I was only asking for clarification. Dann. >>=20 >> The whole gist of this thread is please mind your manners. >> Be aware we are real people here. with feelings. >> by the way, my text is large type because of these darn tiny retina = pixels. >> I did not want to imply I was yelling by increasing the font size. >> Chuckle? LOL? >> lighten up? >> -patrick >>=20 >>=20 >> On Jul 19, 2012, at 1:22 PM, Dann Stubbs wrote: >>=20 >>> apparently the problem is you don't think other people can have = their own opinion >>>=20 >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>>=20 >>> Dann Stubbs - dann@darkskydigital.com >>> Dark Sky Digital - http://www.darkskydigital.com >>>=20 >>> http://www.RenderKing.com Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Jul 19, 2012, at 4:20 PM, patrick siemer wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Wow!=20 >>>> Dann, >>>> I thought adobe was in business to make great software. Call me = naive, but adobe makes amazing product. because they are so good at it, = they make lots of cash too. >>>> They don't force or "cram" packages at anyone.=20 >>>> what makes you think that? bundles save customers money.=20 >>>> I buy those bundles, I save money. >>>> what is so bad about that. No one forced me to bundle anything. >>>> I also own individual licenses for Multiple copies of ae, ps and = ai. >>>> Because it made sense, I did not need the bundles. >>>> I saved money. >>>> what is the problem? >>>> -patrick >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On Jul 19, 2012, at 1:10 PM, Dann Stubbs wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> personally i don't benefit from the whole cram everything into one = package mentality that adobe is copying from microsoft. >>>>>=20 >>>>> it fostered competition in the market when each package stood on = it's own and you could buy another that filled the need better (or not) >>>>>=20 >>>>> the bundle mentality of an industry giant does nothing but crowd = out most small developers who just can't compete when everyone who needs = the industry standard "photoshop" gets a bunch of other stuff included = for "free" already. it's hard to compete with something that is = essentially "free" and everyone has already. >>>>>=20 >>>>> let's be real - adobe is a business... they are only in business = to make money - like most. i don't see the prices getting any less = expensive because they have the users best interest at heart. those = executive bonus' don't pay for themselves you know... >>>>>=20 >>>>> i do see the benefit of small or home users now being able to = "afford" the subscription as a benefit - but it was not done out of = generosity - it was done to gain entry/grow market share in a new = demographic. nothing altruistic about it. >>>>>=20 >>>>> once the bean counters run the numbers on the projected revenue = stream - the price will go up. >>>>>=20 >>>>> a handful of years ago parking at disney was free, then a few = dollars, now it's like what $14 per car? to sit in their lot while you = pay another $100 per ticket to get in! this is adobe's parking lot = fee... >>>>>=20 >>>>> the new business mentality is everything is a revenue stream. the = subscription model will become no different... to act like it's not is = kinda silly. >>>>> = ___________________________________________________________________ >>>>>=20 >>>>> Dann Stubbs - dann@darkskydigital.com >>>>> Dark Sky Digital - http://www.darkskydigital.com >>>>>=20 >>>>> http://www.RenderKing.com Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm >>>>> = ___________________________________________________________________ >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Jul 19, 2012, at 3:46 PM, Todd Kopriva wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Wow. I try not to take things like this personally but... Is = there anything that we could do to prevent you from assuming the worst = when we're trying to create options that you'll actually benefit from? >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] = On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Dann Stubbs >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> ding, ding, ding >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> give that man a prize >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> = ___________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Dann Stubbs - dann@darkskydigital.com >>>>>>> Dark Sky Digital - http://www.darkskydigital.com >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> http://www.RenderKing.com Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm >>>>>>> = ___________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On Jul 19, 2012, at 3:24 PM, Mike Abbott wrote: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> $599 per year for subscription version.. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> I wonder how long it will take for Adobe to start ramping up = the >>>>>>> annual >>>>>>>> subscription cost - once we're all hooked ;) >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> +---End of message---+ >>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> +---End of message---+ >>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-6--646341701 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I agree with you about some past suite = upgrades being a bit weak on some of the software, but 
overall I think there has always been great = value. 
 About the = mothership....funny, I see it the other way, I don't think adobe is = going to fold up shop in a couple years and shaft their = customers.
Instead I think Adobe is  more at the  mercy of their = (paying) customers, 
 (Yes, and stockholders = too.)
We help to define the moves that adobe makes.  They listen = to their customers.
they will do what we drive them to = do.
If few people buy subscriptions, I don't expect them to last = long. 
I love owning licenses too, especially for = older computers, who still need a purpose in their old- = age.
Thank you for your opinions, and for the lively = debate.
Now, back to workl!

patrick siemer


On Jul 19, 2012, at 1:58 PM, Dann Stubbs = wrote:

that is funny about the = font size - i was kinda wondering why you typed so large ; = )

yes there are benefits to the subscription model = for some - another one that was mentioned was the ability to add some = seats for a short term need - that is a great use of the subscription = for sure... i'm sure adobe was hoping that cuts down on the casual = pirating too.

one thing i don't like about the = big bundles is when one package has had some major updates/upgrades then = they often force in some weak feature the other package in effort to = justify the new bundle upgrade so that each item within can now be = considered "upgraded" and the stand alone packages often get "upgraded" = too

i just think of the possibility from both = sides - but once adobe has a set number of users - they will not be able = to resist increasing that cloud fee as an easy revenue = gain.

to each their own. i will prefer not to = use the cloud model... some will enjoy it and benefit from it. i just = hope it does not fizzle out in a couple years (like .mac did, or = internet "portals" etc) and then leave a bunch of users stuck with data = they can't access... or worse IMHO like someone else said they do away = with the standalone packages and go "cloud only" as that is not my first = choice... but we are all at the mercy of the mothership. so i guess we = will wait and see.

dann

Dann = Stubbs  -  dann@darkskydigital.com
<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">Dark Sky Digital -  http://www.darkskydigital.com<= /div>

http://www.RenderKing.com &nb= sp;Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm


On Jul 19, 2012, at 4:41 PM, patrick siemer = wrote:

I was only asking = for clarification. Dann.

The whole gist of this thread is please mind = your manners.
Be aware we are real = people here. with feelings.
by the = way, my text is large type because of these darn tiny retina = pixels.
I did not want to imply I = was yelling by increasing the font size.
Chuckle? LOL?
lighten = up?
-patrick


On Jul 19, = 2012, at 1:22 PM, Dann Stubbs wrote:

apparently the problem is you = don't think other people can have their own = opinion


Dann = Stubbs  -  dann@darkskydigital.com
<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">Dark Sky Digital -  http://www.darkskydigital.com<= /div>

http://www.RenderKing.com &nb= sp;Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm


On Jul 19, 2012, at 4:20 PM, patrick siemer = wrote:

Dann,
They don't force or "cram" packages at = anyone. 
what makes you think that? bundles save customers = money. 
I buy those bundles, I save money.
what is so bad about that. No one = forced me to bundle anything.
I also own individual licenses for = Multiple copies of ae, ps and ai.
Because it made sense, I did not = need the bundles.
I saved money.
what is the = problem?
-patrick


On Jul 19, 2012, at 1:10 PM, Dann Stubbs = wrote:

personally i don't benefit from the whole cram = everything into one package mentality that adobe is copying from = microsoft.

it fostered competition in the market when each = package stood on it's own and you could buy another that filled the need = better (or not)

the bundle mentality of an industry giant does = nothing but crowd out most small developers who just can't compete when = everyone who needs the industry standard "photoshop" gets a bunch of = other stuff included for "free" already. it's hard to compete with = something that is essentially "free" and everyone has = already.

let's be real - adobe is a business... they are only in = business to make money - like most. i don't see the prices getting any = less expensive because they have the users best interest at heart. those = executive bonus' don't pay for themselves you know...

i do see = the benefit of small or home users now being able to "afford" the = subscription as a benefit - but it was not done out of generosity - it = was done to gain entry/grow market share in a new demographic. nothing = altruistic about it.

once the bean counters run the numbers on = the projected revenue stream - the price will go up.

a handful of = years ago parking at disney was free, then a few dollars, now it's like = what $14 per car? to sit in their lot while you pay another $100 per = ticket to get in! this is adobe's parking lot fee...

the new = business mentality is everything is a revenue stream. the subscription = model will become no different... to act like it's not is kinda = silly.
________________________________________________________________= ___

Dann Stubbs  -  dann@darkskydigital.com
Dar= k Sky Digital -  http://www.darkskydigital.com<= br>
http://www.RenderKing.com =  Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render = Farm
__________________________________________________________________= _



On Jul 19, 2012, at 3:46 PM, Todd Kopriva = wrote:

Wow. I try not to take things = like this personally but... Is there anything that we could do to = prevent you from assuming the worst when we're trying to create options = that you'll actually benefit from?

-----Original = Message-----
From: After Effects Mail List = [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] = On
Behalf Of Dann = Stubbs

ding, ding, = ding

give that man a = prize

____________________________________________________________= _______

Dann Stubbs  -  dann@darkskydigital.com
Dark Sky Digital -  http://www.darkskydigital.com<= br>

http://www.RenderKing.com =  Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render = Farm
____________________________________________________________= _______



On Jul 19, 2012, at 3:24 PM, = Mike Abbott wrote:



$599 = per year for subscription = version..


I = wonder how long it will take for Adobe to start ramping up = the
annual
subscription cost - once we're all hooked = ;)


+---End of = message---+
To unsubscribe = send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>



+---End of message---+
To = unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>





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