Return-Path: Received: from eu1sys200aog105.obsmtp.com ([207.126.144.119] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with SMTP id 4862580 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Wed, 03 Oct 2012 22:58:17 +0200 Received: from mail-vb0-f41.google.com ([209.85.212.41]) (using TLSv1) by eu1sys200aob105.postini.com ([207.126.147.11]) with SMTP ID DSNKUGynXv/NkKe5m0kNYJAcOWVLDN/lbI3t@postini.com; Wed, 03 Oct 2012 21:00:14 UTC Received: by vbkv13 with SMTP id v13so8391033vbk.28 for ; Wed, 03 Oct 2012 14:00:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=ml1GlVwNR/p8ZxyL6WltJx2CTt0DrHFJ5mqf3CZnGKk=; b=DoNLNZcuRNJSj81MiW2LYzrEkPgo1sGXK/TjBkeRSbMSYIKNKR1cC//qmLIbgU4Q+J YrOKBk6Hd6GexmfDeJT+I7uyaGZlfuV11s2traQUUFaNHw5PGBXdv/fBh3cBcpCftsyt pRps82romcZgWQkixvzE//O5virzUGXNtQuAO7w7XHrbHHRV/lsP9zd2sKaOdsqkYINa dbH5+u3E/N5uoF2E1xoQpXkIcds2ieEQrvv9uAfF0ZL3sSwIJfSFhkvHTtz03SB/9H+N IT3UiufHcIZ6nyb5tRsXozRiE1wZsU1i+DaFIaM806j25IDdBEnA9hTUrCVhI4Fbqrp5 9rbQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.190.161 with SMTP id gr1mr645271vec.3.1349298013178; Wed, 03 Oct 2012 14:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.58.181.166 with HTTP; Wed, 3 Oct 2012 14:00:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2012 17:00:13 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] New to the list - question on rotoscoping From: Ross Shain To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b674000c58b3d04cb2dec84 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmpcDw1YBEKBwwgYYD4UOTOYgkJsZJBWiQBjds/hpsbBPeTUtOeeodZ83f+vB26ic5ZoAES --047d7b674000c58b3d04cb2dec84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sam, You can definitely achieve acceptable quality roto-paint style animations doing frames on 2's or even 3's. Which will reduce the overall amount of work. If you are shooting yourself, minimizing the camera motion and actors rotation, will allow you to get away with a lot less roto, especially if you use mocha to track the paint shapes. I am sure that there are many talented artists that would be willing to work with you to find an acceptable quality that fits your budget. good luck, Ross On 3 October 2012 16:31, Jim Tierney wrote: > Hi Sam,**** > > ** ** > > Since I referred you over here, I=92ll chime in on this.**** > > ** ** > > No one worthwhile is going to do work on spec. What you should do, is hir= e > someone to see if the look you want is feasible within your budget > constraints. There are many folks here that can show you excellent exampl= es > of roto/masking work. They can do some render tests over a day or so, usi= ng > a few approaches, creating different looks to see if what you=92re after = is > possible. It=92s not fair to ask for work examples when you don=92t even = know > if what you want is possible.**** > > ** ** > > The default settings for ToonIt are extremely good for what it does. If > that look is not acceptable then it=92s unlikely a strictly post-process > approach will work for you. So you=92re looking at some combination of po= st > processing and manual tweaking.**** > > ** ** > > Fwiw=85 If you know you want to cartoon video before shooting, you can se= t > up your lighting, use a greenscreen, and use makeup during the shoot to g= et > better results from post-process effects like ToonIt. I realize that=92s = not > the case here, but for future reference it=92s good to know. Even then, t= o > get anything close to the Charles Schwab commercials it=92ll require manu= al > work.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Cheers,**** > > Jim**** > > --------------- **** > > Jim Tierney**** > > President**** > > Digital Anarchy**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *From:* After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] *On > Behalf Of *Sam Carter > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 03, 2012 12:35 PM > > *To:* After Effects Mail List > *Subject:* Re: [AE] New to the list - question on rotoscoping**** > > ** ** > > The alternative, contracting out the work without an audition, can lead t= o > only to find an unacceptable end result?**** > > ** ** > > I=92ve just done that with another contractor and have nothing to move > forward with. It seems reasonable that submitting an incomplete fraction= , > (part of), which results in an unusable clip of one video would be > acceptable as an audition to get the job.**** > > ** ** > > Sam**** > > ** ** > > *From:* After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] *On > Behalf Of *Steve Oakley > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:30 PM > *To:* After Effects Mail List > *Subject:* Re: [AE] New to the list - question on rotoscoping**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > On Oct 3, 2012, at 2:12 PM, Sam Carter wrote:**** > > ** ** > > This is my first post on this list. If posting contract work is not > appropriate, please ignore or delete this post and my apologies in advanc= e. > **** > > ** ** > > its perfectly fine to post about offering work. **** > > ** ** > > am looking for a contractor willing to audition for the job of rotoscopin= g > these videos to a satisfactory quality. For the audition, I will provide= a > single 15-second video. I ask that part of the video be rotoscoped and > returned so the quality can be evaluated before contracting the job.**** > > ** ** > > IMNHO this is pretty unacceptable. asking people to do work for free as a= n > "audition" ? hmmm... get 15 or 20 responses, send each person a different > clip. ...asking people to work for spec is wrong. good roto can take time > depending on the material and asking for that time for free is wrong in t= he > guise of an "audition". **** > > ** ** > > there are plenty of qualified people on this list who can do a great job. > you are dealing with some of the best in the biz. if you want to see > samples of previous work ? sure. to do the work ? no.**** > > ** ** > > S**** > --=20 Ross Shain Chief Marketing Officer Imagineer Systems - developers of* mocha* planar tracking and visual effects tools. www.imagineersystems.com Phone: +1.646.298.6458 | Fax: 646.808.0831 | Email: rosss@imagineersystems.com Find us online: Facebook | Vimeo| Imagineer Forums | Imagineer Blog --047d7b674000c58b3d04cb2dec84 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sam,

You can definitely achieve acceptable quality roto-paint st= yle animations doing frames on 2's or even 3's. Which will reduce t= he overall amount of work.

If you are shooting yourself, minimizing= the camera motion and actors rotation, will allow you to get away with a l= ot less roto, especially if you use mocha to track the paint shapes.

I am sure that there are many talented artists that would be willing to= work with you to find an acceptable quality that fits your budget.
good luck,
Ross


On 3 October 2012= 16:31, Jim Tierney <jim@digitalanarchy.com> wrote:

Hi Sam,

=A0<= /p>

Since I referred you o= ver here, I=92ll chime in on this.

=A0<= /p>

No one worthwhile is g= oing to do work on spec. What you should do, is hire someone to see if the = look you want is feasible within your budget constraints. There are many fo= lks here that can show you excellent examples of roto/masking work. They ca= n do some render tests over a day or so, using a few approaches, creating d= ifferent looks to see if what you=92re after is possible. It=92s not fair t= o ask for work examples when you don=92t even know if what you want is poss= ible.

=A0<= /p>

The default settings f= or ToonIt are extremely good for what it does. If that look is not acceptab= le then it=92s unlikely a strictly post-process approach will work for you.= So you=92re looking at some combination of post processing and manual twea= king.

=A0<= /p>

Fwiw=85 If you know yo= u want to cartoon video before shooting, you can set up your lighting, use = a greenscreen, and use makeup during the shoot to get better results from p= ost-process effects like ToonIt. I realize that=92s not the case here, but = for future reference it=92s good to know. Even then, to get anything close = to the Charles Schwab commercials it=92ll require manual work.

=A0<= /p>

=A0

Cheers,

Jim<= /span>

---------------=A0

Jim Ti= erney

President

Digital Anarchy<= u>

=A0<= /p>

=A0

=A0<= /p>

From: After Ef= fects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of Sam Carter
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 12:35 PM


To: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] New t= o the list - question on rotoscoping

=A0

The alternative, contracting out the work without an audition, can lead t= o only to find an unacceptable end result?

=A0=

I=92ve just done that with another con= tractor and have nothing to move forward with.=A0 It seems reasonable that = submitting an incomplete fraction, (part of), which results in an unusable = clip of one video would be acceptable as an audition to get the job.=

=A0

Sam

=A0

=

From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-L= ist@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of Steve Oakley
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:30 PM
To: After Effect= s Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] New to the list - question on rotos= coping

= =A0

=A0

On Oct 3, 2012, at 2:12 PM, Sam Carter <samckayak@gmail.com> wrote:=

=A0

=

This is my first post on this li= st.=A0 If posting contract work is not appropriate, please ignore or delete= this post and my apologies in advance.

=A0

its perfectly fine to post about offering work.=A0=

=A0

am looking for a contractor will= ing to audition for the job of rotoscoping these videos to a satisfactory q= uality.=A0 For the audition, I will provide a single 15-second video.=A0 I = ask that part of the video be rotoscoped and returned so the quality can be= evaluated before contracting the job.

=A0

IMNHO this is pretty unacceptable. asking people to do work = for free as an "audition" ? hmmm... get 15 or 20 responses, send = each person a different clip. ...asking people to work for spec is wrong. g= ood roto can take time depending on the material and asking for that time f= or free is wrong in the guise of an "audition".=A0<= /p>

=A0

there are plenty of qualified people on this list who can do= a great job. you are dealing with some of the best in the biz. =A0if you w= ant to see samples of previous work ? sure. to do the work ? no.<= /u>

=A0

S




--
Ross Shain
Chief Mar= keting Officer
Imagineer Systems - developers of mocha planar tracking and visual e= ffects tools.

www.imagineersystems.com
Phone: +1.= 646.298.6458 | Fax: 646.808.0831 | Email: rosss@imagineersystems.com

Find us online:
Facebook | Vimeo | Imagineer Forums | Imagineer Blog
--047d7b674000c58b3d04cb2dec84--