Return-Path: Received: from www.digitalanarchy.com ([208.84.113.138] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4867939 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Wed, 10 Oct 2012 00:07:10 +0200 Received: from RadiantJimHP (c-69-181-246-69.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [69.181.246.69]) (authenticated bits=0) by aurora2.hosting4less.com (8.13.8/8.13.1) with ESMTP id q99MALVi023657 for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2012 15:10:24 -0700 From: "Jim Tierney" To: "'After Effects Mail List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [AE] The best ergonomic input device is... Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 15:09:22 -0700 Message-ID: <020301cda66a$bee51200$3caf3600$@digitalanarchy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0204_01CDA630.128CF0C0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQEvuYKpWcltF80GHmZfdjm2LdJPAZjtDsHQ Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0204_01CDA630.128CF0C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Something about having to grip the stylus makes my hand cramp up after a short period of time. I notice that I have a much lighter grip when I'm just mousing around vs. when I'm writing or painting with the stylus. I think if I held the stylus like I hold a pen, I'd probably have the same issue, but I hold it with a very loose grip. So you might want to try that and see if it makes a difference. Cheers, Jim --------------- Jim Tierney President Digital Anarchy From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of Brian Maffitt Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 6:59 AM To: After Effects Mail List Subject: Re: [AE] The best ergonomic input device is... It's funny, I'm exactly the opposite. Something about having to grip the stylus makes my hand cramp up after a short period of time. And a trackball was never precise enough for my me. When I do get sore from too much mouse usage, as Jim said, I change the height of my chair arms and in a worst case, add a pillow, and I'm fine by the next day. I love tablets for painting, but not for general input. And as Jim also said, your mileage may vary. Everybody is different; find what works for you. Brian Great OT thread. In a field like ours, ergonomics is paramount. It is totally possible and likely that you will injure yourself out of a job with the wrong practices. I concur with Jim that a tablet is a great mouse replacement. I can't use a mouse for more than a few minutes a day without irritation. I can use a tablet all day and feel fine. Thanks for the link to the Leap Motion. That looks awesome. How well does a stand up desk work when using a tablet? I'm considering raising my desk to stand and get a tall chair for times when I need to sit. On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 6:19 AM, Angie-Taylor wrote: I agree with Jim, switching is good. I eventually found a great chair after trying all sorts of expensive chairs and it's like having 3 chairs in one. Everything is adjustable to I just adjust it slightly whenever I get strain or tiredness. I have the base on a "free-float mechanism so it moves as I move. Then i adjust armrests and back angle when I need to. http://www.rhchairs.co.uk/office-chairs/rh-activ/ I've had it for about 8 years and still love it. On my desk i have a small A5 Wacom, a Microsoft wireless mouse and a traditional Apple mouse, I switch between all three. I also have a Space Navigator and the buttons on my Wacom tablet which I program. I very rarely use gestural stuff, i find it too unreliable. Cheers, Angie On 9 Oct 2012, at 09:36, Jim Tierney wrote: Regarding the joystick, awhile back when I was running the Bay Area Motion Graphics group we got a variety of vendors to give us a variety of devices and had folks test them. The joystick was one of the devices that stood out. sort of. We bought a few of them here at Digital Anarchy and ultimately stopped using them. Less stress on the wrist, but it puts a lot of stress on your arm/shoulder. An improvement, but ultimately it just moves the stress to a different area. Patrick, I disagree with Shelby's advice regarding devices. I don't think there is such a thing as a good mouse or trackpad when it comes to RSI. Tablets when positioned and used correctly are the only thing I've found to really help with my RSI problems. Whenever I switch back to a mouse or have to use trackpad on laptop it becomes a problem. In terms of preventing RSI, switching devices is probably better than doing nothing, but once you have serious RSI problems it becomes very clear what devices help and which aggravate it. I realize everyone's mileage will vary. but once you get used to a tablet as a mouse replacement (NOT as a paint tool) and get a proper chair/workstation setup, it's amazing the difference it makes. Part of the trick is having adjustable arms on the chair (I've got a Steelcase chair which is great), so that your arm is lightly resting on the arm of the chair while you're using the tablet and you can configure things so you can sit upright and not have to extend your arm. I use a Wacom 4x6 for my 1920x1080 monitor. This is not great as a paint tablet for that size monitor, but as a mouse replacement it kicks ass. I also LOVE the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 keyboard. Excellent keyboard. If you don't have the space to have 3 desks and 3 types of chairs, getting up and stretching frequently is extremely helpful. So yeah, changing your position frequently is a great idea, but that can be done through stretching as well as different types of workstations. Yoga and learning how to stretch properly will help considerably. Cheers, Jim --------------- Jim Tierney President Digital Anarchy From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of patrick siemer Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 8:04 PM To: After Effects Mail List Subject: [AE] The best ergonomic input device is... ...The next device you use. just don't use it for long. For some time at Pixar we had a full-time Ergonomics expert named Shelby. She was so good at her job, she actually worked her way out of a job. Essentially, she had one Mantra about Ergonomics and preventing Repetitive Stress Injury. "The Best Position is your next Position." Everybody always wanted to know the best way to sit, the best mouse to use, the best tablet, trackball, chair, Lifting desk, standing desk, Yoga ball, etc. Her answer was always the same, "All of them, and switch them often." She encouraged people to sit however they wanted, but to change positions, chairs and input devices often. As often as Possible, Many times a day. I had begun to experience a numbness in my mousing arm, but that little bit of info saved my arm forever. I learned to use a Yoga Ball sometimes, a Swopper stool sometimes, a Freedom chair sometimes, and with the awesome Electro-Lifting desk, i could switch from sitting to standing with the push of a button. Repetitive stress Injuries happen when you keep doing the same thing over and over. She taught the common-sense lesson "If your body is hurting from doing something, Stop doing it." If you switch things around enough, you'll never get to the Injury hurting part. To service that advice, her office was like an ergonomic birthday party for everyone who entered. Every input device known to man, available for any worker who was interested, to just take back to their office and get back to work In Another Position. When I mentioned that my arm was tingling, I had an electric desk the next day. It might sound excessive, but It wasn't just to coddle the artists, preventing disabling injuries is just good business Plus, Electric Lifting Desks are the most badass desks ever. I will always use one, as long as I have to look at a screen at work or home. Oh yeah, My Next Device is this little gadget, you can pre-order now.... https://leapmotion.com/ finally! patrick siemer tapeandglue.com On Oct 8, 2012, at 11:58 AM, Phil Spitler wrote: Continuing on the thread of input devices.... Anybody use a joystick with AE and OSX. We are looking something like this. http://www.amazon.com/3M-Ergonomic-Optical-Compatible-EM500GPS/dp/B00008KWWG Any thoughts? Phil Phil Spitler | Creative Technologist | Bonfire Labs | t : 415.394.8200 m : 415.571.3139 Website | Facebook | LinkedIn ------=_NextPart_000_0204_01CDA630.128CF0C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>> Something about having to grip the stylus makes my = hand cramp up after a short period of time.

 

I notice that I have a much lighter grip when I’m just mousing = around vs. when I’m writing or painting with the stylus. I think = if I held the stylus like I hold a pen, I’d probably have the same = issue, but I hold it with a very loose grip. So you might want to try = that and see if it makes a difference.

 

 

Cheers,

Jim

--------------- 

Jim Tierney

President

Digital Anarchy

 

 

 

From:= = After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of = Brian Maffitt
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 6:59 = AM
To: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] The = best ergonomic input device is...

 

It's = funny, I'm exactly the opposite. Something about having to grip the = stylus makes my hand cramp up after a short period of time. And a = trackball was never precise enough for my = me. 

 

When I do get sore from too much mouse usage, as Jim = said, I change the height of my chair arms and in a worst case, add a = pillow, and I'm fine by the next day. I love tablets for painting, but = not for general input.

 

And as Jim also said, your mileage may vary. Everybody = is different; find what works for you.

 

Brian



Great OT = thread. In a field like ours, ergonomics is paramount. It is totally = possible and likely that you will injure yourself out of a job with the = wrong practices. I concur with Jim that a tablet is a great mouse = replacement. I can't use a mouse for more than a few minutes a day = without irritation. I can use a tablet all day and feel fine. Thanks for = the link to the Leap Motion. That looks awesome. =  

 

How well does a stand up desk work when = using a tablet? I'm considering raising my desk to stand and get a tall = chair for times when I need to sit. 

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 6:19 AM, Angie-Taylor <angie-taylor@ntlworld.com> = wrote:

I agree with Jim, = switching is good. I eventually found a great chair after trying all = sorts of expensive chairs and it's like having 3 chairs in one. = Everything is adjustable to I just adjust it slightly whenever I get = strain or tiredness. I have the base on a "free-float mechanism so = it moves as I move. Then i adjust armrests and back angle when I need = to. 

 

 

I've had it for about 8 years and still love = it.

 

On my desk i have a small A5 Wacom, a Microsoft = wireless mouse and a traditional Apple mouse, I switch between all = three. I also have a Space Navigator and the buttons on my Wacom tablet = which I program. I very rarely use gestural stuff, i find it too = unreliable.

 

Cheers,

 

Angie

 

 

On 9 Oct 2012, at 09:36, Jim Tierney = wrote:



Regarding the joystick, awhile back when I was running the Bay Area = Motion Graphics group we got a variety of vendors to give us a variety = of devices and had folks test them.

 

The joystick was one of the devices that stood out… sort of. We = bought a few of them here at Digital Anarchy and ultimately stopped = using them. Less stress on the wrist, but it puts a lot of stress on = your arm/shoulder. An improvement, but ultimately it just moves the = stress to a different area.

 

Patrick, I disagree with Shelby’s advice regarding devices. I = don’t think there is such a thing as a good mouse or trackpad when = it comes to RSI. Tablets when positioned and used correctly are the only = thing I’ve found to really help with my RSI problems. Whenever I = switch back to a mouse or have to use trackpad on laptop it becomes a = problem. In terms of preventing RSI, switching devices is probably = better than doing nothing, but once you have serious RSI problems it = becomes very clear what devices help and which aggravate = it.

 

I realize everyone’s mileage will vary… but  once = you get used to a tablet as a mouse replacement (NOT as a paint tool) = and get a proper chair/workstation setup, it’s amazing the = difference it makes. Part of the trick is having adjustable arms on the = chair (I’ve got a Steelcase chair which is great), so that your = arm is lightly resting on the arm of the chair while you’re using = the tablet and you can configure things so you can sit upright and not = have to extend your arm.

 

I use a Wacom 4x6 for my 1920x1080 monitor. This is not great as a = paint tablet for that size monitor, but as a mouse replacement it kicks = ass. I also LOVE the Microsoft  Natural Ergonomic 4000 keyboard. = Excellent keyboard.

 

If you don’t have the space to have 3 desks and 3 types of = chairs, getting up and stretching frequently is extremely helpful. So = yeah, changing your position frequently is a great idea, but that can be = done through stretching as well as different types of workstations. Yoga = and learning how to stretch properly will help = considerably.

 

 

Cheers,

Jim

--------------- 

Jim Tierney

President

Digital Anarchy

 

 

 

 

From:=  After = Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf = Of patrick siemer
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2012 = 8:04 PM
To: After Effects Mail = List
Subject: [AE] The best ergonomic input device = is...

 

...The next device you use. just don't use it for = long.

For some time = at  Pixar we had a full-time Ergonomics expert named = Shelby. 

She was = so good at her job, she actually worked her way out of a = job.

Essentially, she = had one Mantra about Ergonomics and preventing Repetitive Stress Injury. =  

"The Best Position is your next = Position."

Everybody always wanted to know the best way to sit, = the best mouse to use, the best tablet, trackball, chair, Lifting desk, = standing desk, Yoga ball, etc.

Her answer was always the same,  "All of = them, and switch them = often."

She encouraged people to sit however they wanted, but = to change positions, chairs and input devices often. As often as = Possible, Many times a day.

I had begun to experience a numbness in my mousing = arm, but that little bit of info saved my arm = forever.

I = learned to use a Yoga Ball sometimes, a Swopper stool sometimes, a = Freedom chair sometimes, and with the awesome Electro-Lifting = desk, 

i = could switch from sitting to standing with the push of a = button.

Repetitive stress Injuries happen when you keep doing = the same thing over and over.

She taught the common-sense lesson "If your body = is hurting from doing something, Stop doing = it."

If = you switch things around enough, you'll never get to the Injury hurting = part.  

To = service that advice, her office was like an ergonomic birthday party for = everyone who entered.

Every input device known to man, available for = any worker who was interested, to just take back to their office and get = back to work  In Another = Position.

When = I mentioned that my arm was tingling, I had an electric desk the next = day.

It might = sound excessive, but It wasn't just to coddle the artists, preventing = disabling injuries is just good = business

 

Plus, Electric Lifting Desks are the most badass desks = ever. 

I = will always use one, as long as I have to look at a screen at work or = home.

 

Oh yeah, My Next Device is this little gadget, you can = pre-order now....

 

 

finally! 

 

patrick siemer

 

 

 

On Oct 8, 2012, at 11:58 AM, Phil Spitler = wrote:

Continuing on the thread of input = devices....

 

Anybody use a joystick with AE and = OSX.

 

We are looking something like = this.

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

Phil

 

 

 

Phil = Spitler  |  Creative = Technologist   |  Bonfire Labs  |  t : = 415.394.8200  m = : 415.571.3139

Website | Facebook | LinkedIn

 

 

 

 

 

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