Return-Path: Received: from mail-qc0-f169.google.com ([209.85.216.169] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4873544 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 16 Oct 2012 02:57:11 +0200 Received: by mail-qc0-f169.google.com with SMTP id t2so4604099qcq.28 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2012 17:59:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=m7oRMYNvsgcGRm8fnMuPWlSD7grYyUGpe5a11bPMeBs=; b=Xyv0nsaC/02anPHZm5szChosU7LzXDK00vM1L1kEja7o7fwMEcH2bptftsOS3/TC6N 7MVr9m406A3NIe0NDJED7u5QPz8Wo9TQnoHuhfSp+4VD8JjI2Zsir+pi14hE/qFXwGHA bdz3YyjFxegvbCpJ8exfwjeVPJeCfiuZxRZzsi2Uo9ORxpSF4z6wWVpP5zpHyDnZ5D2/ aBvApEbKButF8Cs2RCrDn4ym93wMr2PAeXxOMAw+S3sOBeN0irexVo8fj09DpimebdeR Dmzu9zJf1OI2bISwUfYyyOSokTI6a2674YD236rg9uO2c7ewDmJYCSCCFo3DG6YpX5Jn zidg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.135.85 with SMTP id m21mr6650826qct.44.1350349169961; Mon, 15 Oct 2012 17:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.128.65 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Oct 2012 17:59:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:59:29 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] RED in CS6 From: Brian Higgins To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00248c6a7a8e992c7b04cc22aaf9 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkw96D1QCTn9QcSMStjfOp1ZtB94NwC+5vsLkKeWEzAZElB554rfH7X0WW9RbwqYCApfLRi --00248c6a7a8e992c7b04cc22aaf9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Fair point, Tim! Half Good is much sharper/noisier than Half Premium. It looks crisper as a still, but is noisy in motion...it may have been that. I've got some greenscreen r3ds that I'll have to test when I get a moment, though. Thanks for sharing your knowledge! -bH On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 7:56 PM, Tim Clapham wrote: > then a different operator sent me some more files using a lower setting > and the noise difference was incredible. It made it much more difficult to > pull a satisfactory key. > > On 16/10/2012, at 11:51 AM, Phil Spitler wrote: > > Thanks Brian. > > We are delivering 1920x1080 but are doing some serious pushes on the > footage. > > It seems like the scaling could be a big issue as I just rendered a 5k > clip and it is 3 times the speed as rendering the same clip at 1080 (after > scaling the footage). > > I will look at the debayeing settings too to see what I can figure out, > > The reason I wanted to keep the files R3d was so that I could do the color > and keying with maximum information in the file. > > More testing to come. > > Thanks. > > Phil > > > > > > *Phil Spitler* | Creative Technologist | *Bonfire Labs* | t : > 415.394.8200 m : 415.571.3139 > > Website | Facebook| > LinkedIn > > On Oct 15, 2012, at 5:45 PM, Brian Higgins wrote: > > Phil, what resolution is your deliverable? Jack is right on the money. > Just because you *can* debayer on the fly, doesn't mean you should. > Heck...if you're not doing push-ins and repos, you probably don't even > need to do a full debayer! If you have fast and large enough storage, do > the debayering when you do the conform and write out DPX/TIFF/EXR sequences > of what you need. You'll be much happier! > > Here's a test for you to try if your deliverables are (only) HD like mine > are. It's somewhat footage dependent, but might be enlightening: Load the > same r3d file twice. Debayer the first copy at full 5K, then debayer the > second at half premium. Drop them both into 1920x1080 comps, and scale > them so they fill the HD frame. Now toggle between them and see how much > difference you can spot. I can sometimes see a tiny, tiny sharpness > improvement on the full-debayered version, but a lot of the time I can't. > Now put a little sharpening (should be standard operating procedure on Red > and Alexa footage) on both comps and see if you can tell the difference. > If you've got 200% blowups to deal with or are mastering at greater than > HD resolution you obviously need the full debayer, but if you aren't, you > might not. > > As to your render times...have you tried rendering a chunk out of RedCine? > A full debayer should only take a few seconds per frame there, even without > a RedRocket. > > $.02, > Brian > > > On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 7:16 PM, Jack Tunnicliffe wrote: > >> Depending on what you are doing with the Red files it's sometimes better >> to render it out as an image sequence, say 16 bit tiffs or something >> similar so you computer isn't doing the debayer for every frame while you >> are working with it. I find the only reasonable explanation for sticking >> with the R3D data is so you can get at the raw data at the initial stages >> should there be under exposure, over exposure, etc. You can find detail >> that would otherwise be lost, but really after that, why not convert it to >> a more AE friendly format. >> >> Jack Tunnicliffe >> Java Post Production >> www.javapost.ca >> >> >> >> On Oct 15, 2012, at 6:09 PM, Phil Spitler wrote: >> >> Wow, working with 5k HD Red footage in CS5.5 is REALLY painful. >> >> Has this been improved in CS6? >> >> It must be the RED decoding that is taking the time as I use 5k plates >> from our 3d guys without this issue at all. >> >> I did a simple garbage matte / Primate key and resize and it is saying >> 2.5 hours to render a 10 second clip. >> >> Plus the machine is really un-responsive.... >> >> This is on an 8 core Xeon with 16GB RAM running CS5.5 >> >> Any idea? >> >> Thanks >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *Phil Spitler* | Creative Technologist | *Bonfire Labs* | t : >> 415.394.8200 m : 415.571.3139 >> >> Website | Facebook| >> LinkedIn >> >> >> > > > -- > brian higgins | creative director > Sol Design > 312.706.5500 > higgins@soldesignfx.com > soldesignfx.com > > > > > > > -- brian higgins | creative director Sol Design 312.706.5500 higgins@soldesignfx.com soldesignfx.com --00248c6a7a8e992c7b04cc22aaf9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fair point, Tim! =A0Half Good is much sharper/noisier than Half Premium. = =A0It looks crisper as a still, but is noisy in motion...it may have been t= hat. =A0I've got some greenscreen r3ds that I'll have to test when = I get a moment, though. =A0Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

-bH

On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 7:56 PM,= Tim Clapham <helloluxx@gmail.com> wrote:
then a different operator sent me some = more files using a lower setting and the noise difference was incredible. = =A0It made it much more difficult to pull a satisfactory key.=A0
=A0
On 16/10/2012, at 11:51 AM, Phi= l Spitler wrote:

Thanks Br= ian.

We are delivering 1920x1080 but are doing some seri= ous pushes on the footage.

It seems like the scali= ng could be a big issue as I just rendered a 5k clip and it is 3 times the = speed as rendering the same clip at 1080 (after scaling the footage).

I will look at the debayeing settings too to see what I= can figure out,

The reason I wanted to keep the f= iles R3d was so that I could do the color and keying with maximum informati= on in the file.

More testing to come.

Thanks.<= /div>

Phil



<= /div>


Phil Spitler= =A0 |=A0 Creative Technologist =A0 |=A0 Bonfire Labs=A0 |=A0 t : 415.394.8200=A0 m : 415.571.3139

Website | Facebook | <= a href=3D"http://www.linkedin.com/company/235257?trk=3Dtyah" target=3D"_bla= nk">LinkedIn

On Oct 15, 2012, at 5:45 PM, Brian Higgins wrote:

Phil, what resolution is your deliverable? =A0Jack = is right on the money. =A0Just because you *can* debayer on the fly, doesn&= #39;t mean you should. =A0Heck...if you're not doing push-ins and repos= , you probably don't even need to do a full debayer! =A0If you have fas= t and large enough storage, do the debayering when you do the conform and w= rite out DPX/TIFF/EXR sequences of what you need. =A0You'll be much hap= pier!

Here's a test for you to try if your delivera= bles are (only) HD like mine are.=A0It's somewhat footage dependent, bu= t might be enlightening:=A0 Load the same r3d file twice. =A0Debayer the fi= rst copy at full 5K, then debayer the second at half premium. =A0Drop them = both into 1920x1080 comps, and scale them so they fill the HD frame. =A0Now= toggle between them and see how much difference you can spot. I can someti= mes see a tiny, tiny sharpness improvement on the full-debayered version, b= ut a lot of the time I can't. =A0Now put a little sharpening=A0(should = be standard operating procedure on Red and Alexa footage)=A0on both comps a= nd see if you can tell the difference. =A0If you've got 200% blowups to= deal with or are mastering at greater than HD resolution you obviously nee= d the full debayer, but if you aren't, you might not.

As to your render times...have you tried rendering a ch= unk out of RedCine? A full debayer should only take a few seconds per frame= there, even without a RedRocket.

$.02,
Brian


On Mon, Oct 15= , 2012 at 7:16 PM, Jack Tunnicliffe <jack@javapost.ca> wrote:=
Dependin= g on what you are doing with the Red files it's sometimes better to ren= der it out as an image sequence, say 16 bit tiffs or something similar so y= ou computer isn't doing the debayer for every frame while you are worki= ng with it. I find the only reasonable explanation for sticking with the R3= D data is so you can get at the raw data at the initial stages should there= be under exposure, over exposure, etc. You can find detail that would othe= rwise be lost, but really after that, why not convert it to a more AE frien= dly format.=A0

=
Jack Tunnicliffe
Java Post Production
www.javapost.ca



On Oct 15, 2012, at 6:09 PM, Phil Spitler <phil@bonfirelabs.com> wro= te:

= Wow, working with 5k HD Red footage in CS5.5 is REALLY painful.

Has this been improved in CS6?=A0

I= t must be the RED decoding that is taking the time as I use 5k plates from = our 3d guys without this issue at all.

I did a sim= ple garbage matte / Primate key and resize and it is saying 2.5 hours to re= nder a 10 second clip.

Plus the machine is really un-responsive....
=
This is on an 8 core Xeon with 16GB RAM running CS5.5
<= div>
Any idea?

Thanks

Phil



=


Phil Spitler= =A0 |=A0 Creative Technologist =A0 |=A0 Bonfire Labs=A0 |=A0 t : 415.394.8200=A0 m : 415.571.3139

Website | Facebook | <= a href=3D"http://www.linkedin.com/company/235257?trk=3Dtyah" target=3D"_bla= nk">LinkedIn





--
brian higgins | creative di= rector
Sol =A0Design








--
=
bri= an higgins | creative director
Sol =A0Design



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