Return-Path: Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.194] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4901010 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 23:12:10 +0100 Received: from [10.1.1.22] (71-13-195-18.static.eucl.wi.charter.com [71.13.195.18]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LsSQK-1TAx1B2rCy-012CLD; Thu, 15 Nov 2012 17:15:27 -0500 From: Steve Oakley Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B7C130BD-093B-4AD9-93BE-0C38C89CFD10" Message-Id: <474A9965-B441-4063-86F4-7DCE20D2121E@practicali.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Subject: Re: [AE] [OT] Intel's 50-core Xeon Phi Processor Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 16:15:25 -0600 References: To: "After Effects Mail List" In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:gjf28fixFN5fUh7s2g99d4jb6UZttKJNC2WKjfPNH93 oMss2mxHXGQO4Fa6EazotJ9mkz6eJ8ZA+YoOGUc6OmJsLcbbXl +C2a22QiFybvpWjrrP0yDfGjTKYdUKnSRha/1mWdUiQ5xzYbI0 2hKePgiP5Avrt9CAcaHtlGI7op4bahI5tJwNxJH3WKWmIKGoE5 VbPYhEiXTOk0JrWr8fezd6lAJeqRt+Hh8Bk8RVu+GMDSkLBCUW KjfC+TMbgvTa0HNdJ024MrOp/ttph1Nb8VgLOKRDHvn2xg0z08 JvqxsYiN5u11Nt464Pq422FUNTBAfkHoueYRCL4BIbbjQqa33P agjHgbAmJq1Jb7oKXQKpo7i9i+5ogsWlOpOPxTg9t5wCvjuDvS yQdF7UDjEjNQg== --Apple-Mail=_B7C130BD-093B-4AD9-93BE-0C38C89CFD10 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 my math says each CPU would get 161mb of RAM.... despite what intel = says, writing code to work well in this environment would not really be = much different than CUDA. you certainly could not run an OS + App + App = data on each core. thats fantasy. you could probably write a renderer to = fit into that space and have some image buffers.... but when you watch = AE eat a couple gigs for large deep color renders, their model pretty = much doesn't work. At best, you instead would need to MP render each = frame, tiling it up and feeding each CPU a chunk of it. very different = than what intel is pitching. you'd need more like 64gb or 128gb to = really make it work they way they say. S On Nov 15, 2012, at 4:06 PM, Byron Nash wrote: > So, in theory would a multi-threaded renderer like Mental Ray be able = to utilize all those coprocessor cores? If so, I imagine you would need = a lot of RAM in the machine. >=20 >=20 > On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Greg Balint = wrote: > Yes, but the 8Gb on-board can be accessed at 320Gb/s whilst the rest = of your System RAM can only be accessed by those cores on the PCIe 2.0 = card at 16GB/sec. Sounds like a bottleneck, but current modules Peak = Transfer Rates are only around 17Gb/s tops, and that's for DDR3-2133 = RAM. The biggest issue would be considering the RAM bus would also be = the same bus used for Storage writing and reading, and instruction = transit. and what memory controller would control those 50 CPUs access = to your RAM through your PCIe 2.0 bus.. sounds like it could be a = nightmare for applications such as AE with constant I/O and instructions = being sent..=20 >=20 > I'd hope one day I can just go purchase a $1500-$2000 card, and = basically get an internal render-farm.. but I think software would need = to catch up to that concept and it would need to go mainstream before = we'd really see a lot of applications for it.. I do see the potential, = and it seems to pretty much be a given-future.. "Core-Boards" will = probably end up being the next step up from the OnBoard Chips. In the = future, it'll all be about OC'ing the CoreBoard and the Motherboard = being the controller of that CoreBoard. >=20 > Just think.. at some point, there'll probably be configurable RAM = options on the CoreBoards, and then we'd need Integrated Video for these = CoreBoards.. =20 >=20 > Basically building a full System Build on a Board that goes in your = Full System Build... then you can Cross-fire those boards together in = one Case..=20 >=20 > Turtles all the way down... >=20 >=20 > ///Greg Balint > //Art Director / Motion Graphics Designer > /321.514.4839 > delRAZOR.com/=20 > On 11/15/2012 9:58 AM, mylenium@mylenium.de wrote: >> It's my understanding that it will appear as just another processor = to the system and thus will share the system's memory. Those 8GB are = more or less just its internal caches. >> =20 >> Mylenium >> =20 >> [Pour Myl=E8ne, ange sur terre]=20 >> -----------------------------------------=20 >> www.mylenium.de >>=20 >> mike cardeiro hat am 15. November 2012 um 15:32 = geschrieben: >>> sounds cool...wonder why they are only allocating 8gb of ram (did = you ever think you'd see the day when you said *only* 8 gigs of ram) >>>=20 >>> Mike Cardeiro >>> Editor/Animator/Compositor =20 >>> D4 Creative Group - Philadelphia, PA =20 >>> =20 >>> http://www.michaelcardeiro.com/resume/=20 >>> http://www.youtube.com/user/mcardeiro >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> =20 >>>=20 >>> From: Satya G Meka (Lists) >>> To: After Effects Mail List =20 >>> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 9:22 AM >>> Subject: [AE] [OT] Intel's 50-core Xeon Phi Processor >>>=20 >>> Fellow Ae-Listers, >>> =20 >>> You might find this interesting. >>> = http://www.drdobbs.com/parallel/intels-50-core-xeon-phi-the-new-era-of-i/2= 40105810?donkey >>> =20 >>> I do wish it competes directly with GPUs in the future. >>> =20 >>> regards, >>> Satya. >>> =20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> =20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_B7C130BD-093B-4AD9-93BE-0C38C89CFD10 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 my = math says each CPU would get 161mb of RAM.... despite what intel says, = writing code to work well in this environment would not really be much = different than CUDA. you certainly could not run an OS + App + App data = on each core. thats fantasy. you could probably write a renderer to fit = into that space and have some image buffers.... but when you watch AE = eat a couple gigs for large deep color renders, their model pretty much = doesn't work. At best, you instead would need to MP render each frame, = tiling it up and feeding each CPU a chunk of it. very different than = what intel is pitching. you'd need more like 64gb or 128gb to really = make it work they way they = say.


S

On Nov = 15, 2012, at 4:06 PM, Byron Nash <byronnash@gmail.com> = wrote:

So, in theory would a multi-threaded renderer like Mental = Ray be able to utilize all those coprocessor cores? If so, I imagine you = would need a lot of RAM in the machine.


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Greg Balint <greg@delrazor.com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Yes, but the 8Gb on-board can be accessed at 320Gb/s whilst the rest of your System RAM can only be accessed by those cores on the PCIe 2.0 card at 16GB/sec. Sounds like a bottleneck, but current modules Peak Transfer Rates are only around 17Gb/s tops, and that's for DDR3-2133 RAM. The biggest issue would be  considering the RAM bus would also be the = same bus used for Storage writing and reading, and instruction transit. and what memory controller would control those 50 CPUs access to your RAM through your PCIe 2.0 bus.. sounds like it could be a nightmare for applications such as AE with constant I/O and instructions being sent..

I'd hope one day I can just go purchase a $1500-$2000 card, and basically get an internal render-farm.. but I think software would need to catch up to that concept and it would need to go mainstream before we'd really see a lot of applications for = it..  I do see the potential, and it seems to pretty much be a given-future.. "Core-Boards" will probably end up being the next step up from the OnBoard Chips.  In the future, it'll all be = about OC'ing the CoreBoard and the Motherboard being the controller of that CoreBoard.

Just think.. at some point, there'll probably be configurable RAM options on the CoreBoards, and then we'd need Integrated Video for these CoreBoards.. 

Basically building a full System Build on a Board that goes in your Full System Build... then you can Cross-fire those boards together in one Case..

Turtles all the way down...


///Greg Balint
//Art Director / Motion Graphics Designer
/321.514.4839
delRAZOR.com/ =
On 11/15/2012 9:58 AM, mylenium@mylenium.de wrote:
=20 =20
It's my understanding that it will appear as just another processor to the system and thus will share the system's memory. Those 8GB are more or less just its internal caches.
 
Mylenium
 
[Pour Myl=E8ne, ange sur terre]
-----------------------------------------
www.mylenium.de

mike cardeiro <mcardeiro@yahoo.com> hat am 15. November 2012 um 15:32 geschrieben:
sounds cool...wonder why they are only allocating 8gb of ram (did you ever think you'd see the day when you said *only* 8 gigs of ram)

Mike Cardeiro
= Editor/Animator/Compositor        =         
D4 Creative Group - Philadelphia, PA    =
=            
http://www.michaelcardeiro.com/resume/
http://www.youtube.com/user/mcardeiro

  =

From: Satya G Meka (Lists) <lists@rowbyte.com>
To: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 9:22 AM
Subject: [AE] [OT] Intel's 50-core Xeon Phi Processor

Fellow Ae-Listers,
 
You might find this interesting.
 
I do wish it competes directly with GPUs in the future.
 
regards,
Satya.
 



 



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