Return-Path: Received: from mail-lb0-f169.google.com ([209.85.217.169] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4908388 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Sun, 25 Nov 2012 16:36:55 +0100 Received: by mail-lb0-f169.google.com with SMTP id gk1so7070581lbb.28 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2012 07:40:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=rp4jcgbox4x+dZlJwCWOBfQTcv+MZAZyf4H5nExGVTs=; b=LLRH5ENTlTjZcMvJTT+1QS4aaiPkgz7n88TErH7fBHR7g8dsfVcQTQGSnjxx72Bvbv A0s/wC9BhD76/GuubRSFuOZMiPFiaTZ7qYtirAS8Ip1ozMcskMBIKZUyLKu8uE214Uqh OsJyNRF0TQkYBUQI61UvKXJkNC+2wXf9SUe5FL3PaUvJc327qqhM0v8QwX2+gaQocTj6 yTRk/MJHtv0XDQplfPpKdp1332WGhmss26QVwpgL0cN2/SdBDpTGU6TvTkCnfiWuLv1l bZf3osfcwBRjDksgjKSjn7jlXKfzZ0EJ4zkRzS4JuuTKRN3rTUVQ/uX0lU6fTvVK69Q0 8RKA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.152.108.197 with SMTP id hm5mr8441518lab.45.1353858032637; Sun, 25 Nov 2012 07:40:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.135.41 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Nov 2012 07:40:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:40:32 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: [AE] Arri flat From: Teddy Gage To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec54fbd3a1c962d04cf53a317 --bcaec54fbd3a1c962d04cf53a317 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 OK so j. Penzer said the arri is using log c color space. This is the answer I was looking for. Here's my concern. I am ingesting prores transcodes, not the original camera files. The histogram for this footage in 32bpc is compressed on both sides and very clipped in the middle a) I am concerned the editor didn't do the transcodes properly. I'm not even sure whether they were converted to 8 bit 4:2:2 or 10bit 4:4:4. I am, unfortunately, one of the more tech savvy people on production. Is there any way to figure this out? B) how should I handle final outputs? Should I use color space conversion back to log c on export so it's consistent in fcp? Does fcp do this conversion automatically? Thanks! On Nov 25, 2012 12:20 AM, "Jim Curtis" > wrote: > Yes, sounds to me like they shot in linear color space, which when you > view it looks flat and desaturated. You can use a color space conversion > plug (Cineon Converter in Ae), or just put a levels or curves filter on and > crush the blacks, and bring up the whites, if needed. Then, it starts > looking more like the log footage you're used to seeing, only with more > range in the blacks and highlights. > > When I'm working in Pr CS6, I put an adjustment layer over my timeline, > and make a "one light" setting that makes the footage look "normal" for > viewing in the edit room. > > > On Nov 24, 2012, at 11:07 PM, patrick Siemer wrote: > > Sounds to me like the footage was shot that way intentionally. > The "flat look" is for when the footage is going to be color graded later. > Most people i know tend to shoot that way when they want to decide how it > will look in Post. > Prolost.com does a good job of explaining the whole concept, at least for > Canon DSlr shooting. > > http://prolost.com/blog/2012/4/10/prolost-flat.html > > I imagine Arri has some similar workflow. > Just my guess. > don't quote me on the Arri thing. > - > Patrick Siemer > tapeandglue.com > > On Nov 24, 2012, at 5:13 PM, Teddy Gage wrote: > > Thanks guys, photoJPG seems to hit a sweet spot between quality and > size, or PNG if I need an alpha. Cut the upload from 1.8 gigs to 350 MB. PS > Has anyone worked with Arri Alexa footage? I think either the person who > did the exports to prores screwed up the compression / color space, or they > may have underexposed their whole shoot. There is very little dynamic range > and everything looks super flat. Is it possible to check the color space of > a specific clip? I don't see it in any of the metadata. Or do I need to do > a color space conversion in AE for the Alexa that I'm missing? My gut tells > me it was the DP's fault and not the trip to prores. > > As for exports, would it be better to add in some 32 bpc curves to expand > the DR, and export this "corrected" version? It looks much better and is > much easier to work with. Or should I just use that on an adjustment layer, > and color correct the effects plates to the neutral footage? > > On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Jim Curtis > > wrote: > >> The Avid codecs are free, cross platform, and support alpha. They take a >> bit of work to get right, due to the menu options, and that frame size & >> rate matter. They work OK with FCP, but not ideal. >> >> Your best bet is ProRes. If you're on Windows, I've read there is a way >> to encode, but it requires some hoop jumping. Google might present the >> elixir. >> >> >> >> On Nov 24, 2012, at 5:36 PM, Todd Kopriva wrote: >> >> > I use PNG in a QuickTime wrapper when I need lossless files and can >> make do with an 8-bpc codec. For photo-real images, the files are half the >> size of Animation; it has an alpha channel; and it's nigh-universal >> (installed with standard QuickTime). The performance leaves something to be >> desired, but that's OK for my purposes. >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] >> On >> >> Behalf Of Phil Spitler >> >> Sent: 24November2012 10:10 >> >> To: After Effects Mail List >> >> Subject: Re: [AE] lossless alternative to prores export for pc >> >> >> >> I would try photoJpeg at 90% - 95% quality. >> >> >> >> Works great cross platform. >> >> >> >> No alpha channel though. >> >> >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Phil Spitler | Creative Technologist | Bonfire Labs | t : >> >> 415.394.8200 m : 415.571.3139 >> >> >> >> Website | Facebook >> >> | LinkedIn >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 24, 2012, at 10:01 AM, Teddy Gage wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi all, looking for the best way to export some lossless clips >> >> from AE for an editor to drop in the shots for FCP. I am receiving >> >> assets in prores and currently exporting in 8bit 4:2:2, but the file >> >> sizes are still pretty huge for upload. Is there a better lossless >> >> codec that plays nice with FCP? Either direct from AE or in AME? I >> >> don't want to have to export h264 but that may be the best option, at >> >> least as offline proxies. My internet is pretty fast (6MBPS up / 50 >> >> down) but no match for uploading several gigs quickly >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Animator & Editor >> >> www.teddygage.com >> >> Brooklyn >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > +---End of message---+ >> > To unsubscribe send any message to >> > >> >> >> +---End of message---+ >> To unsubscribe send any message to >> > >> > > > > -- > Animator & Editor > www.teddygage.com > Brooklyn > > > > -- Animator & Editor www.teddygage.com Brooklyn --bcaec54fbd3a1c962d04cf53a317 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

OK so j. Penzer said the arri is using log c color space. Th= is is the answer I was looking for. Here's my concern. I am ingesting p= rores transcodes, not the original camera files. The histogram for this foo= tage in 32bpc is compressed on both sides and very clipped in the middle a) I am concerned the editor didn't do the transcodes properly. I'm= not even sure whether they were converted to 8 bit 4:2:2 or 10bit 4:4:4. I= am, unfortunately, one of the more tech savvy people on production. Is the= re any way to figure this out?

B) how should I handle final =A0outputs? Should I use color = space conversion back to log c on export so it's consistent in fcp? Doe= s fcp do this conversion automatically?=A0

Thanks!<= /span>

On Nov 25, 2012 12:20 AM, "Jim Curtis"= <jpcurtis@me.com> wrote:
Yes, sounds to me like they shot in lin= ear color space, which when you view it looks flat and desaturated. =A0You = can use a color space conversion plug (Cineon Converter in Ae), or just put= a levels or curves filter on and crush the blacks, and bring up the whites= , if needed. =A0Then, it starts looking more like the log footage you'r= e used to seeing, only with more range in the blacks and highlights.

When I'm working in Pr CS6, I put an adjustment layer ov= er my timeline, and make a "one light" setting that makes the foo= tage look "normal" for viewing in the edit room.


On Nov 24, 2012, at 11:07 PM, patrick Siemer wrote= :

So= unds to me like the footage was shot that way intentionally.=A0
The &qu= ot;flat look" is for when the footage is going to be color graded late= r.=A0
=A0Most people i know tend to shoot that way when they want to decide = how it will look in Post.
Prolost.com does a good job of explaining the whole concept= , at least for Canon DSlr shooting.


I imagine Arri has some similar workflow.<= /div>
Just my guess.
don't quote me on the Arri thing.
-
Patrick Siemer

On Nov 24, 2= 012, at 5:13 PM, Teddy Gage wrote:

=A0=A0=A0 Thanks guys, photoJPG seems to hit = a sweet spot between quality and size, or PNG if I need an alpha. Cut the u= pload from 1.8 gigs to 350 MB. PS Has anyone worked with Arri Alexa footage= ? I think either the person who did the exports to prores screwed up the co= mpression / color space, or they may have underexposed their whole shoot. T= here is very little dynamic range and everything looks super flat. Is it po= ssible to check the color space of a specific clip? I don't see it in a= ny of the metadata. Or do I need to do a color space conversion in AE for t= he Alexa that I'm missing? My gut tells me it was the DP's fault an= d not the trip to prores.

As for exports, would it be better to add in some 32 bpc curves to expa= nd the DR, and export this "corrected" version? It looks much bet= ter and is much easier to work with. Or should I just use that on an adjust= ment layer, and color correct the effects plates to the neutral footage?
On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Jim Curtis = <jpcurtis@me.com> wrote= :
The Avid codecs are free, cross platform, and support alpha. =A0They take a= bit of work to get right, due to the menu options, and that frame size &am= p; rate matter. =A0They work OK with FCP, but not ideal.

Your best bet is ProRes. =A0If you're on Windows, I've read there i= s a way to encode, but it requires some hoop jumping. =A0Google might prese= nt the elixir.



On Nov 24, 2012, at 5:36 PM, Todd Kopriva wrote:

> I use PNG in a QuickTime wrapper when I need lossless files and can ma= ke do with an 8-bpc codec. For photo-real images, the files are half the si= ze of Animation; it has an alpha channel; and it's nigh-universal (inst= alled with standard QuickTime). The performance leaves something to be desi= red, but that's OK for my purposes.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-= List@media-motion.tv] On
>> Behalf Of Phil Spitler
>> Sent: 24November2012 10:10
>> To: After Effects Mail List
>> Subject: Re: [AE] lossless alternative to prores export for pc
>>
>> I would try photoJpeg at 90% - 95% quality.
>>
>> Works great cross platform.
>>
>> No alpha channel though.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> Phil Spitler =A0| =A0Creative Technologist =A0 | =A0Bonfire Labs = =A0| =A0t :
>> 415.394.8200 =A0m : 415.571.3139
>>
>> Website <= http://bonfirelabs.com/> =A0| Facebook
>> <http://www.facebook.com/bonfirelabs> =A0| LinkedIn
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/235257?trk=3Dtyah>=
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 24, 2012, at 10:01 AM, Teddy Gage wrote:
>>
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0Hi all, looking for the best way to export some lossles= s clips
>> from AE for an editor to drop in the shots for FCP. I am receiving=
>> assets in prores and currently exporting in 8bit 4:2:2, but the fi= le
>> sizes are still pretty huge for upload. Is there a better lossless=
>> codec that plays nice with FCP? Either direct from AE or in AME? I=
>> don't want to have to export h264 but that may be the best opt= ion, at
>> least as offline proxies. My internet is pretty fast (6MBPS up / 5= 0
>> down) but no match for uploading several gigs quickly
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0--
>> =A0 =A0 =A0Animator & Editor
>> =A0 =A0 =A0www.teddygage.com <http://www.teddygage.com/>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0Brooklyn
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> +---End of message---+
> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae= -list-off@media-motion.tv>


+---End of message---+
To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list= -off@media-motion.tv>



--
Anima= tor & Editor
www.teddygage.com
Brooklyn





--
Animator & Editor
www.teddygage.com Brooklyn

--bcaec54fbd3a1c962d04cf53a317--