Return-Path: Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.195] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4908449 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Sun, 25 Nov 2012 18:19:53 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.17] (CPE-65-27-114-233.new.res.rr.com [65.27.114.233]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus3) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MXZ8Q-1ThZVJ4BUc-00W7AI; Sun, 25 Nov 2012 12:23:29 -0500 From: Steve Oakley Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_596FE1AD-1C2F-46D4-9C35-CDCEA3B5CAF5" Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Subject: Re: [AE] Arri flat Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 11:23:35 -0600 References: To: "After Effects Mail List" In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:L6XcgJ1ZZ++JyOtg2SE3Gf3NBQfzcg6injiQAHM/aXZ 5fWa9pmL+P/++cy4KD4FTJnUtT6eyTOPC5twEV/qbO6r2cwu4F Z4vfuEMMVfuD+MSlIOBWzZi7GPSHAI9TZE+UvruugdiB0ICboy iw9FzZiXPrmix9FK/6lppWvgCjN2PTcjztOeeW5GrO0R/Tc60L M8j5iI/rVAeKBGG5ZotuoKq9jG9wu4tf9kdaZzV8FXdkKei5E/ swhLVcsR+3sTL+3nSdrXp0jxBdgOvqWJA/FLqku7J4QszcdVbw 9mVGE5L6yCKXvhyqGMDduKZqd3NWZhGTiZ/EQNkxqZ5c2a1ERh xtWMdOJZxTqoLztJFDdZSgEX1KpuB8o3RjzPCqq8sSfO4kTG/a MJ+48VmVR4+vg== --Apple-Mail=_596FE1AD-1C2F-46D4-9C35-CDCEA3B5CAF5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 they may of done nothing since the alexa can shoot directly to prores. = could of just trimmed the clips and exported. as for if its actually = under exposed or not... that depends. go to Arri's website, dig into = that. they have color profiles for the camera and I think a plug to = apply them to get you into REC 709 color space. AE's color management = tools can also handle this... S On Nov 25, 2012, at 9:40 AM, Teddy Gage wrote: > OK so j. Penzer said the arri is using log c color space. This is the = answer I was looking for. Here's my concern. I am ingesting prores = transcodes, not the original camera files. The histogram for this = footage in 32bpc is compressed on both sides and very clipped in the = middle > a) I am concerned the editor didn't do the transcodes properly. I'm = not even sure whether they were converted to 8 bit 4:2:2 or 10bit 4:4:4. = I am, unfortunately, one of the more tech savvy people on production. Is = there any way to figure this out? >=20 > B) how should I handle final outputs? Should I use color space = conversion back to log c on export so it's consistent in fcp? Does fcp = do this conversion automatically?=20 >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > On Nov 25, 2012 12:20 AM, "Jim Curtis" wrote: > Yes, sounds to me like they shot in linear color space, which when you = view it looks flat and desaturated. You can use a color space = conversion plug (Cineon Converter in Ae), or just put a levels or curves = filter on and crush the blacks, and bring up the whites, if needed. = Then, it starts looking more like the log footage you're used to seeing, = only with more range in the blacks and highlights. >=20 > When I'm working in Pr CS6, I put an adjustment layer over my = timeline, and make a "one light" setting that makes the footage look = "normal" for viewing in the edit room. >=20 >=20 > On Nov 24, 2012, at 11:07 PM, patrick Siemer wrote: >=20 >> Sounds to me like the footage was shot that way intentionally.=20 >> The "flat look" is for when the footage is going to be color graded = later.=20 >> Most people i know tend to shoot that way when they want to decide = how it will look in Post. >> Prolost.com does a good job of explaining the whole concept, at least = for Canon DSlr shooting. >>=20 >> http://prolost.com/blog/2012/4/10/prolost-flat.html >>=20 >> I imagine Arri has some similar workflow. >> Just my guess. >> don't quote me on the Arri thing. >> - >> Patrick Siemer >> tapeandglue.com >>=20 >> On Nov 24, 2012, at 5:13 PM, Teddy Gage wrote: >>=20 >>> Thanks guys, photoJPG seems to hit a sweet spot between quality = and size, or PNG if I need an alpha. Cut the upload from 1.8 gigs to 350 = MB. PS Has anyone worked with Arri Alexa footage? I think either the = person who did the exports to prores screwed up the compression / color = space, or they may have underexposed their whole shoot. There is very = little dynamic range and everything looks super flat. Is it possible to = check the color space of a specific clip? I don't see it in any of the = metadata. Or do I need to do a color space conversion in AE for the = Alexa that I'm missing? My gut tells me it was the DP's fault and not = the trip to prores. >>>=20 >>> As for exports, would it be better to add in some 32 bpc curves to = expand the DR, and export this "corrected" version? It looks much better = and is much easier to work with. Or should I just use that on an = adjustment layer, and color correct the effects plates to the neutral = footage?=20 >>>=20 >>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Jim Curtis wrote: >>> The Avid codecs are free, cross platform, and support alpha. They = take a bit of work to get right, due to the menu options, and that frame = size & rate matter. They work OK with FCP, but not ideal. >>>=20 >>> Your best bet is ProRes. If you're on Windows, I've read there is a = way to encode, but it requires some hoop jumping. Google might present = the elixir. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Nov 24, 2012, at 5:36 PM, Todd Kopriva wrote: >>>=20 >>> > I use PNG in a QuickTime wrapper when I need lossless files and = can make do with an 8-bpc codec. For photo-real images, the files are = half the size of Animation; it has an alpha channel; and it's = nigh-universal (installed with standard QuickTime). The performance = leaves something to be desired, but that's OK for my purposes. >>> > >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On >>> >> Behalf Of Phil Spitler >>> >> Sent: 24November2012 10:10 >>> >> To: After Effects Mail List >>> >> Subject: Re: [AE] lossless alternative to prores export for pc >>> >> >>> >> I would try photoJpeg at 90% - 95% quality. >>> >> >>> >> Works great cross platform. >>> >> >>> >> No alpha channel though. >>> >> >>> >> Phil >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Phil Spitler | Creative Technologist | Bonfire Labs | t : >>> >> 415.394.8200 m : 415.571.3139 >>> >> >>> >> Website | Facebook >>> >> | LinkedIn >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Nov 24, 2012, at 10:01 AM, Teddy Gage wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Hi all, looking for the best way to export some lossless = clips >>> >> from AE for an editor to drop in the shots for FCP. I am = receiving >>> >> assets in prores and currently exporting in 8bit 4:2:2, but the = file >>> >> sizes are still pretty huge for upload. Is there a better = lossless >>> >> codec that plays nice with FCP? Either direct from AE or in AME? = I >>> >> don't want to have to export h264 but that may be the best = option, at >>> >> least as offline proxies. My internet is pretty fast (6MBPS up / = 50 >>> >> down) but no match for uploading several gigs quickly >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Animator & Editor >>> >> www.teddygage.com >>> >> Brooklyn >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > +---End of message---+ >>> > To unsubscribe send any message to >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> +---End of message---+ >>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> Animator & Editor >>> www.teddygage.com >>> Brooklyn >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Animator & Editor > www.teddygage.com > Brooklyn >=20 --Apple-Mail=_596FE1AD-1C2F-46D4-9C35-CDCEA3B5CAF5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 they = may of done nothing since the alexa can shoot directly to prores. could = of just trimmed the clips and exported. as for if its actually under = exposed or not... that depends. go to Arri's website, dig into that. =  they have color profiles for the camera and I think a plug to = apply them to get you into REC 709 color space. AE's color management = tools can also handle = this...

S

On Nov 25, 2012, at = 9:40 AM, Teddy Gage <teddygage@gmail.com> = wrote:

OK so j. Penzer said the arri is using log = c color space. This is the answer I was looking for. Here's my concern. = I am ingesting prores transcodes, not the original camera files. The = histogram for this footage in 32bpc is compressed on both sides and very = clipped in the middle
a) I am concerned the editor didn't do the transcodes properly. I'm not = even sure whether they were converted to 8 bit 4:2:2 or 10bit 4:4:4. I = am, unfortunately, one of the more tech savvy people on production. Is = there any way to figure this out?

B) how should I = handle final  outputs? Should I use color space conversion back to = log c on export so it's consistent in fcp? Does fcp do this conversion = automatically? 

Thanks!

On Nov 25, 2012 12:20 AM, "Jim Curtis" <jpcurtis@me.com> wrote:
Yes, sounds to me like they shot in = linear color space, which when you view it looks flat and desaturated. =  You can use a color space conversion plug (Cineon Converter in = Ae), or just put a levels or curves filter on and crush the blacks, and = bring up the whites, if needed.  Then, it starts looking more like = the log footage you're used to seeing, only with more range in the = blacks and highlights.

When I'm working in Pr CS6, I put an adjustment layer = over my timeline, and make a "one light" setting that makes the footage = look "normal" for viewing in the edit room.


On Nov 24, 2012, at 11:07 PM, patrick Siemer = wrote:

Sounds to me like the footage was shot = that way intentionally. 
The "flat look" is for when the = footage is going to be color graded later. 
 Most people i know tend to shoot that way when they want to = decide how it will look in Post.
Prolost.com does a good job of explaining the = whole concept, at least for Canon DSlr shooting.

http://prolost.com/blog/2012/4/10/prolost-flat.html<= /div>

I imagine Arri has some similar workflow.
Just my guess.
don't quote me on the Arri = thing.
-
Patrick Siemer

On Nov 24, = 2012, at 5:13 PM, Teddy Gage wrote:

    Thanks guys, photoJPG = seems to hit a sweet spot between quality and size, or PNG if I need an = alpha. Cut the upload from 1.8 gigs to 350 MB. PS Has anyone worked with = Arri Alexa footage? I think either the person who did the exports to = prores screwed up the compression / color space, or they may have = underexposed their whole shoot. There is very little dynamic range and = everything looks super flat. Is it possible to check the color space of = a specific clip? I don't see it in any of the metadata. Or do I need to = do a color space conversion in AE for the Alexa that I'm missing? My gut = tells me it was the DP's fault and not the trip to prores.

As for exports, would it be better to add in some 32 bpc curves to = expand the DR, and export this "corrected" version? It looks much better = and is much easier to work with. Or should I just use that on an = adjustment layer, and color correct the effects plates to the neutral = footage?

On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Jim = Curtis <jpcurtis@me.com> = wrote:
The Avid codecs are free, cross platform, and support alpha.  They = take a bit of work to get right, due to the menu options, and that frame = size & rate matter.  They work OK with FCP, but not ideal.

Your best bet is ProRes.  If you're on Windows, I've read there is = a way to encode, but it requires some hoop jumping.  Google might = present the elixir.



On Nov 24, 2012, at 5:36 PM, Todd Kopriva wrote:

> I use PNG in a QuickTime wrapper when I need lossless files and can = make do with an 8-bpc codec. For photo-real images, the files are half = the size of Animation; it has an alpha channel; and it's nigh-universal = (installed with standard QuickTime). The performance leaves something to = be desired, but that's OK for my purposes.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On
>> Behalf Of Phil Spitler
>> Sent: 24November2012 10:10
>> To: After Effects Mail List
>> Subject: Re: [AE] lossless alternative to prores export for = pc
>>
>> I would try photoJpeg at 90% - 95% quality.
>>
>> Works great cross platform.
>>
>> No alpha channel though.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> Phil Spitler  |  Creative Technologist   | =  Bonfire Labs  |  t :
>> 415.394.8200  m : 415.571.3139
>>
>> Website <http://bonfirelabs.com/>  | Facebook
>> <http://www.facebook.com/bonfirelabs>  | = LinkedIn
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/235257?trk=3Dtyah>= ;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 24, 2012, at 10:01 AM, Teddy Gage wrote:
>>
>>
>>      Hi all, looking for the best way to export = some lossless clips
>> from AE for an editor to drop in the shots for FCP. I am = receiving
>> assets in prores and currently exporting in 8bit 4:2:2, but the = file
>> sizes are still pretty huge for upload. Is there a better = lossless
>> codec that plays nice with FCP? Either direct from AE or in = AME? I
>> don't want to have to export h264 but that may be the best = option, at
>> least as offline proxies. My internet is pretty fast (6MBPS up = / 50
>> down) but no match for uploading several gigs quickly
>>
>>      --
>>      Animator & Editor
>>      www.teddygage.com <http://www.teddygage.com/>
>>      Brooklyn
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> +---End of message---+
> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>


+---End of message---+
To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>



--
Animator = & Editor
www.teddygage.com
Brooklyn

=




--
Animator & Editor
www.teddygage.com
Brooklyn


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