Return-Path: Received: from nm14.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.141] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4908651 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 26 Nov 2012 02:39:51 +0100 Received: from [98.139.44.102] by nm14.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2012 01:43:27 -0000 Received: from [67.195.22.109] by tm7.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2012 01:43:27 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp105.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Nov 2012 01:43:27 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rogers.com; s=s1024; t=1353894207; bh=/j1fZiVMLRzoXPshzWgbXz+ySYqPT3m1g6g1pSCQW7s=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:X-Vipre-Scanned:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=vOjvWesn1UsuvZIW7dJ22jcbQUrWGqlWlME8fv/PCCUPF41mPwHC2zwg7elJX2sWf2KRnz6HgGQvZ9sJ2655B0SZENbNXMDH4enNsd3Jl47YfrNL/Va+HoTrFVLzgWtJeTT6XpM3IM1d4YmQz0DurKtfRWYe09svIbwt0H1RBCE= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 581095.14552.bm@smtp105.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 4.ysAJwVM1kOkuUfpY3iFq8TppZQsEs5INhkzB_M0cUmcnF ZZxNuoiPPgbs6Qh.5xO9.v7752guwP60WOMkadrJxsQ_oWGXSASm.wDnwXOV pSe5txAzYZ7HFDdapkWGe3SoknjIZUyfxrqYL4oyf29dQ0iKR_Y90g9tsZ8W 2LHs0Be7mvdqmdbvF_xPPZ2bPEdmbWQU5SgUL3GkU0VFzNG9urcdZ5zeCMkX SDMP2wQ_mhs_YpT0ahGR1HvW9kviAaLjjtQAaIBgVsRfpuwerPEhErhjVE5Z gIKRiWlyP4o.93UzRoyuW.41Ylg0f6tVUQCETQFi9s13JJkGp94aSWWeMkeW hQfsMVpwMH_iXypaXK1jIWcOa1sBvUcs6ogM9KhpXeyVU61u6V30gNuxRhzP uW0RwwXY2MlOzeJcyWQ7DrQqMN7mhk156IbPs3FO_Krmy3iIGlNPqVIelFMa yKMl46M_OxlDu3qf68kRVDhOqYQ3ppr8_AHh3q.QugvYx41Gr2cViqbb92L1 t2dZlDqcAl8N9jm2LB3sDPQxQsJMj.3CQ6MMTrFVohvI7jkN3VuU6m1x.G.M KKeRT X-Yahoo-SMTP: 6WJtEiuswBAQR4qJyjiiBnvmDHxjW_w3MwA6jXAgg93RTTVYMAUMJYKyRg-- Received: from JuliesComp (redtruckproductions@99.250.173.153 with login) by smtp105.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2012 17:43:27 -0800 PST X-Vipre-Scanned: 003C94F8002FFA003C9645-TDI Message-ID: From: "Red Truck" To: "After Effects Mail List" References: Subject: Re: [AE] Arri flat Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 20:43:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0140_01CDCB4D.844D2120" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0140_01CDCB4D.844D2120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable AE Toronto had Adobe's Colin Smith demo Adobe Speedgrade this week. Speedgrade is include with CS6. =20 Handles colour grading of Red, Arri, sequences with LUT table settings. Easy set up. =20 Robert Alsop @ Red Truck =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Teddy Gage=20 To: After Effects Mail List=20 Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [AE] Arri flat OK that helps. That's sort of what I was doing already- but I'd really = like to avoid having to work on the effects directly in c-log, it's = gonna be a huge headache with color space conversion and preview. I was = thinking maybe a round trip through dnxHD 10-bit may be the answer. The = final deliverables are going to be HD5 for broadcast as far as I can = tell, and maybe a DCP. Looks like I need to have another conversation = with the director and online editor to figure out this workflow and how = they're doing the color correct. I wish they'd just shot dnxhd in the = first place... -TG On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Jim Curtis wrote: I touched on this already, but what I've done is to put a first = instance of levels on the clips or an adjustment layer to get the levels = on a WFM in the ballpark of 1-100. Then, I add a second instance of = other plugs (I like Frishchluft FL Curves best) for fine tuning. What you render to depends on where you're going. I was doing = broadcast spots, so I rendered to ProRes422 (in RGB color space) and = made MPEG2 for distribution via DG and ExtremeReach from those. To be honest, I don't know if that's a great method, but the footage = looks great, and I love the expanded dynamic range and the minimizing of = clipping in the whites that I often see with lesser capture formats. =20 Monitoring: I have a calibrated HP DreamColor display and a Sony = Trinitron CRT hooked up to a Kona for accurate monitoring. I use an = Apple Cinema Display for my computer monitor, and I can attest that the = images are vastly different between the computer display and the = broadcast monitors. What looks right on the broadcast monitors is = super-saturated on the ACD (using the default Cinema HD Apple profile - = not flat). =20 You can check yourself by looking at the scopes in Ae bundled Color = Finesse, if you don't have any other scopes available. Or, you can = check your work by using the scopes in Pr, if you have that. I run = Synthetic Apps Test Gear full-time in Ae. I'm sure you're aware that home HDTVs have picture settings that = alter the contrast, saturation, etc. Whether your HDTV gives you an = accurate look depends on many settings and the hardware feeding your = HDMI signal. But, if that's all you have, then see if your output = compares favorably to what you watch on TV. If it looks right, maybe it = is right. On Nov 25, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Teddy Gage wrote: ok looks like it is 4444, 276 mbps. I wasn't aware the arri = encoded directly to prores so that solves one problem, namely what I = thought was a bad transcode. Looks like these clips are direct from = camera. Now what's the best way for this footage to make the round trip, = FX-wise, without destroying the integrity of the 10bit 4444? I'm = thinking: - convert to log c color space / 32bpc to work in. Match all FX = footage / roto / stock elements to the log c preview? - render back out to lossless QTs in 10bit YUV from AE=20 - do I render in video color space or should I render out in the = log c profile?=20 I don't have an HD monitor, I have a high-end "graphics" monitor = (the eizo CG222, extremely flat response, color accurate, 99%+ of adobe = RGB) but to get an accurate final preview I may throw it onto my HDTV = (not ideal, I know, but at least should give me an idea what I'm looking = at, right?) Any other tips / gotchas would be greatly appreciated. -TG On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Jim Curtis = wrote: You can tell if it's 422 or 4444 by looking at the clip info in = the Ae Project pane, or by using Get Info in QT Player. The Alexa footage I've worked with (just three projects, so I'm = no expert), the camera was connected to a cinedeck via 2 BNC cables, and = the native footage was ProRes4444+, or IOW, no transcoding was done or = necessary. =20 If it was recorded to ArriRaw and transcoded with settings = "baked," you have been robbed of the post-production benefits of = recording in RAW. On Nov 25, 2012, at 9:40 AM, Teddy Gage wrote: OK so j. Penzer said the arri is using log c color space. This = is the answer I was looking for. Here's my concern. I am ingesting = prores transcodes, not the original camera files. The histogram for this = footage in 32bpc is compressed on both sides and very clipped in the = middle a) I am concerned the editor didn't do the transcodes = properly. I'm not even sure whether they were converted to 8 bit 4:2:2 = or 10bit 4:4:4. I am, unfortunately, one of the more tech savvy people = on production. Is there any way to figure this out? B) how should I handle final outputs? Should I use color = space conversion back to log c on export so it's consistent in fcp? Does = fcp do this conversion automatically?=20 Thanks! --=20 Animator & Editor www.teddygage.com Brooklyn --=20 Animator & Editor www.teddygage.com Brooklyn ------=_NextPart_000_0140_01CDCB4D.844D2120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
AE Toronto had Adobe's Colin Smith demo Adobe Speedgrade this = week.
Speedgrade is include with CS6.
 
Handles colour grading of Red, Arri,  sequences = with=20 LUT table settings.
Easy set up.  
 
Robert Alsop @
Red Truck
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Teddy Gage=20
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 = 1:12=20 PM
Subject: Re: [AE] Arri = flat

OK that helps. That's sort of what I was doing already- = but I'd=20 really like to avoid having to work on the effects directly in c-log, = it's=20 gonna be a huge headache with color space conversion and preview. I = was=20 thinking maybe a round trip through dnxHD 10-bit may be the answer. = The final=20 deliverables are going to be HD5 for broadcast as far as I can tell, = and maybe=20 a DCP. Looks like I need to have another conversation with the = director and=20 online editor to figure out this workflow and how they're doing the = color=20 correct. I wish they'd just shot dnxhd in the first = place...
-TG

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Jim Curtis = <jpcurtis@me.com> wrote:
I touched on this already, but = what I've=20 done is to put a first instance of levels on the clips or an = adjustment=20 layer to get the levels on a WFM in the ballpark of 1-100. =  Then, I add=20 a second instance of other plugs (I like Frishchluft FL Curves best) = for=20 fine tuning.

What you render to depends on where you're going.  I was = doing=20 broadcast spots, so I rendered to ProRes422 (in RGB color space) and = made=20 MPEG2 for distribution via DG and ExtremeReach from those.

To be honest, I don't know if that's a great method, but the = footage=20 looks great, and I love the expanded dynamic range and the = minimizing of=20 clipping in the whites that I often see with lesser capture formats. =  

Monitoring:  I have a calibrated HP DreamColor display and = a Sony=20 Trinitron CRT hooked up to a Kona for accurate monitoring.  I = use an=20 Apple Cinema Display for my computer monitor, and I can attest that = the=20 images are vastly different between the computer display and the = broadcast=20 monitors.  What looks right on the broadcast monitors is=20 super-saturated on the ACD (using the default Cinema HD Apple = profile - not=20 flat).  

You can check yourself by looking at the scopes in Ae bundled = Color=20 Finesse, if you don't have any other scopes available.  Or, you = can=20 check your work by using the scopes in Pr, if you have that.  I = run=20 Synthetic Apps Test Gear full-time in Ae.

I'm sure you're aware that home HDTVs have picture settings = that alter=20 the contrast, saturation, etc.  Whether your HDTV gives you an = accurate=20 look depends on many settings and the hardware feeding your HDMI = signal.=20  But, if that's all you have, then see if your output compares=20 favorably to what you watch on TV.  If it looks right, maybe it = is=20 right.




On Nov 25, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Teddy Gage wrote:

ok looks like it is 4444, 276 mbps. I = wasn't aware=20 the arri encoded directly to prores so that solves one problem, = namely=20 what I thought was a bad transcode. Looks like these clips are = direct from=20 camera.

Now what's the best way for this footage to make = the round=20 trip, FX-wise, without destroying the integrity of the 10bit 4444? = I'm=20 thinking:

- convert to log c color space / 32bpc to work = in. Match=20 all FX footage / roto / stock elements to the log c preview?
- = render=20 back out to lossless QTs in 10bit YUV from AE
- do I render in = video=20 color space or should I render out in the log c profile?

I = don't=20 have an HD monitor, I have a high-end "graphics" monitor (the eizo = CG222,=20 extremely flat response, color accurate, 99%+ of adobe RGB) but to = get an=20 accurate final preview I may throw it onto my HDTV (not ideal, I = know, but=20 at least should give me an idea what I'm looking at, = right?)

Any=20 other tips / gotchas would be greatly = appreciated.
-TG



On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Jim = Curtis <jpcurtis@me.com> wrote:
You can tell if it's 422 or = 4444 by=20 looking at the clip info in the Ae Project pane, or by using Get = Info in=20 QT Player.

The Alexa footage I've worked with (just three projects, so = I'm no=20 expert), the camera was connected to a cinedeck via 2 BNC = cables, and=20 the native footage was ProRes4444+, or IOW, no transcoding was = done or=20 necessary.  

If it was recorded to ArriRaw and transcoded with settings = "baked,"=20 you have been robbed of the post-production benefits of = recording in=20 RAW.


On Nov 25, 2012, at 9:40 AM, Teddy Gage wrote:

OK so j. Penzer said the arri is using log c = color space.=20 This is the answer I was looking for. Here's my concern. I am=20 ingesting prores transcodes, not the original camera files. = The=20 histogram for this footage in 32bpc is compressed on both = sides and=20 very clipped in the middle
a) I am concerned the editor = didn't do=20 the transcodes properly. I'm not even sure whether they were = converted=20 to 8 bit 4:2:2 or 10bit 4:4:4. I am, unfortunately, one of the = more=20 tech savvy people on production. Is there any way to figure = this=20 out?

B) how should I handle final  outputs? = Should I use=20 color space conversion back to log c on export so it's = consistent in=20 fcp? Does fcp do this conversion automatically? 

Thanks!




--
Animator & = Editor
www.teddygage.com
Brooklyn
=



--
Animator = &=20 Editor
www.teddygage.comBrooklyn

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