Return-Path: Received: from mail-qc0-f169.google.com ([209.85.216.169] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4916603 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 21:11:57 +0100 Received: by mail-qc0-f169.google.com with SMTP id t2so2278529qcq.28 for ; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 12:15:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=7kCvCeD39j8rAfLFHYIraIoVN0WXw+b53ClvL0bPdyQ=; b=mu4O6YVxsWsK08bcdEFsqavORTpK6tXu9fBpicfUoYsU1cSul8OwehQqJgUo2dtAyA 0qiTJRVNNEEzQYjFM2/A+I+fhfgi09vbnFYU30qrGtcaXMvjotr6MlJ0AIEsUizLVu0n we1a/wsrTkrnHRH7T5pSPHh4GAqGT5CpUhGRaV7ZsuDNlhPlSPDwM20ZFsSMObtBhAwf YlXwICA+wSolJBK4tyZnfabmPLq/ZtmVaXndT6xxqp5YQgJhU1KiVT/CXwR3S+OytSsi WamBua4Ef4F6H1roN4JSHjuh+WE/NoGoYFiguzg1NRTEANwJuvVIYJKeZ1Zy2ttX/8PM 21Vw== Received: by 10.49.133.195 with SMTP id pe3mr27050911qeb.58.1354652151251; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 12:15:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.49.60.131 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 12:15:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Teddy Gage Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:15:10 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Decklink extreme 3D rampreview support + SDI monitors To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bea351845025c04d00c8857 --047d7bea351845025c04d00c8857 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable that was under "previews" preference. also check the output device output modes and quality settings under video preview On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Teddy Gage wrote: > I had this similar problem the other day! It was driving me insane. The > composition window looked right on full res single frames but RAM preview > looked like total crap, even in 32bpc. You know what fixed it? > > preferences -> viewer quality -> zoom quality =3D more accurate, color > management quality =3D more accurate. > > hope that helps > > > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Robert Kjettrup wrot= e: > >> Hi >> >> Just an update on this subject: >> >> My Z820 just arrived here last week, and now i have it setup with a >> decklink card and a FSi monitor (it is as good as you said Carey :-)) >> And with this setup i can preview 16bit and 32bit HD AE rampreviews in >> realtime out to the FSi, so far so good. But i see horrible banding of >> ramps out of AE with the decklink, something i never saw with the old AJ= A >> card. Even the expected banding in 8bit out of the AJA looks better than >> the banding i get from the decklink in AE set to 16bit. It looks like a >> sawtooth banding pattern with a darkening at fixed interval, and not the >> "smooth" regular banding from the AJA. >> There is actually no difference in the output if set to 8, 16 or 32bit. >> They all band. >> It is not the card that has a problem, because if outputting a 10bit >> sequence in Premiere it looks like it should, smooth. So either Blackmag= ic >> or Adobe should make some software changes to make this better :-( >> >> Are any of you also seeing this? >> >> - Robert >> >> >> >> 2012/9/27 Carey Dissmore >> >>> You're welcome. >>> >>> I just got an email from Flanders this morning (as paste from it is >>> copied below). They have a new free firmware update for 12 bit support. >>> I'll have to do this update in a few days as my current project load co= mes >>> first. >>> >>> Carey >>> >>> *What's Been Added:* >>> >>> - 12 bit RGB & YCbCr signal support & 12 bit processing* >>> - Record Status Tally Feature. Allows the monitor to read Start/Stop >>> Record Flags in the SDI ancillary data of compatible cameras and to >>> indicate when the camera is recording by activating the monitor's re= d tally >>> light. ARRI Alexa and Sony cameras with this feature enabled are cur= rently >>> supported. >>> - New function button access to Log monitoring modes for faster >>> single button press activation of Log monitoring modes introduced in= the >>> previous firmware release. >>> - BETA support of 12 bit XYZ format signals* >>> >>> Current owners of FSI monitors can download the latest firmware from ou= r >>> update site http://www.flandersscientific.com/index/Firmware_Updates where >>> more detailed release notes can also be found. An updated user manual i= s >>> also available: >>> http://www.flandersscientific.com/uploads/FSIUserManual.pdf >>> >>> >>> **12 bit signal support requires your monitor to be equipped with 3Gbps >>> SDI inputs, which are provided as standard equipment on all current 9" = and >>> larger FSI Monitors.** * >>> >>> On Sep 27, 2012, at 5:00 AM, Robert Kjettrup >>> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for the feedback on AE output via the Decklink. That isn't very >>> encouraging that you can't either playback 16/32bit rampreviews in real= time >>> :-( >>> I have an aging HP XW8400 (the same generation hardware as the first >>> macpro 8 cores) and i also suspect it is my hardware that might be the >>> cause of the low framerate in 16bit projects when i have the SDI output >>> active. Hopefully a new Z820 will do better, the memory bandwidth shoul= d be >>> many times faster :-) >>> ..or maybe there is a change needed in AE to do the conversion before >>> sending it to the card, Mercury Transmit in After Effects? >>> >>> I have send the link for your excellent review of the Flanders monitor >>> to the relevant people here at the company. >>> >>> >>> Robert Kjettrup / Grafiker / Mayday Film >>> Mobil: 25 18 95 16 >>> Mail: robert@maydayfilm.dk >>> www.maydayfilm.dk >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2012/9/27 Carey Dissmore >>> >>>> I run the Decklink HD Extreme 3D card on an older (but very upgraded) >>>> Mac Pro 3,1 along with a Quadro FX 4800 on displays and a Quadro 4000 = on >>>> headless GPU grunt. I also run the EXCELLENT Flanders LM-2461W monitor= on >>>> it. >>>> >>>> In AE, the card displays 16 bit and 32 bit comps just fine, but on thi= s >>>> output it you get choices of 8 bit, 10 bit or RGB. I choose RGB in 16 = & >>>> 32bpc comps. >>>> >>>> RAM Preview: When I engage the hardware for RAM previews I get reduced >>>> frame rates. I think that is the fault of my Mac itself and not the ca= rd. >>>> That generates a lot more bus traffic to send the image out the card a= nd I >>>> don't think this mac can handle it. In the next few weeks I am going t= o be >>>> building a new PC that should have substantially more horsepower and w= ill >>>> be moving the BMD card and the Flanders to that new system so I can re= port >>>> back at that time. >>>> >>>> If you are interested, here's my review of the Flanders I did on my >>>> blog last spring: >>>> >>>> http://www.careydissmore.com/?p=3D207 >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> Carey >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 26, 2012, at 2:53 PM, Robert Kjettrup >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Yes, thats the monitor we had for review, and it is looking really >>>> amazing. So good that i know of some who have dismissed it as being to= o >>>> good to evaluate what the picture would look like on a more "normal" s= creen >>>> :-D >>>> But this PVM version doesn't have 3Gbps SDI or 4:4:4 input as the >>>> Flanders? >>>> And the interlace processor is not that good on the PVM sony, not that >>>> this is a problem for me, but for others in our company it might be. W= e >>>> would like to standardise on one brand. >>>> Do you have a problem with the OLED "flicker" on this model? some had >>>> an issue with this when we had the review monitor, some didn't see it.= I >>>> didn't, might be because of me having gone past the 35th birthday >>>> :-)...getting older... >>>> >>>> I would love to have this Sony monitor at my desk :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> Robert Kjettrup / Grafiker / STV Mayday >>>> >>>> Mobil: 25 18 95 16 >>>> Mail: robert@stvmayday.dk >>>> >>>> >>>> 2012/9/26 Brian Higgins >>>> >>>>> Sony PVM 24" OLEDs are amazing, and cost a only little more than the >>>>> Flanders you mentioned. >>>>> >>>>> http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-monitors/cat-oledmonitors/product-PV= M2541/ >>>>> >>>>> The features probably don't line up exactly with the Flanders, but at >>>>> least take a look and see if it works for you. The $1k/inch BVMs are= the >>>>> same panels with fancier processing on the back end to cover things l= ike >>>>> XYZ space for DI mastering that you might not need. I've had a PVM o= n my >>>>> desk for the last 6 months or so and have been very, very happy with = it for >>>>> broadcast work. >>>>> >>>>> $.02, >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Robert Kjettrup wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi >>>>>> >>>>>> I am reseaching a bit on what SDI card to get for a new AE >>>>>> workstation, and don't get any positive answers from Blackmagic on w= hat >>>>>> support the Decklink Extreme 3D has in After Effects and thought may= be some >>>>>> here on the list uses this card and could give some more detailed fe= edback. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can this card play back rampreview from AE in realtime in 16 and >>>>>> 32bit projects to a SDI monitor? My current outdated legacy AJA card >>>>>> (KONA/XENA LH) cant playback 1080/25p 16bit projects in realtime and= 32bit >>>>>> projects is just a bunch of scrambled mess on the SDI output. AJA gi= ves >>>>>> some very vague feedback that this card is not supported anymore and= the >>>>>> new cards are "updated", but nothing about the new cards being able = to >>>>>> handle 16/32bit projects. >>>>>> >>>>>> We are also about to change all our old trusty SD CRT Barco referenc= e >>>>>> monitors to something more current (about time!) and i have suggeste= d we >>>>>> should go with Flanders Sci. LM2461W. Is this also in here seen as t= he best >>>>>> vs. value monitor? >>>>>> We have had a Sony OLED monitor for review, and it is absolutely >>>>>> fantastic, but a bit pricy if you want the same options as the Fland= ers. >>>>>> Does anyone have the TVlogic XVM series? >>>>>> >>>>>> hope this is not too Off Topic for the list? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Robert Kjettrup / Grafiker / STV Mayday >>>>>> >>>>>> Mobil: 25 18 95 16 >>>>>> Mail: robert@stvmayday.dk >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> brian higgins | creative director >>>>> Sol Design >>>>> 312.706.5500 >>>>> higgins@soldesignfx.com >>>>> soldesignfx.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Animator & Editor > www.teddygage.com > Brooklyn > > --=20 Animator & Editor www.teddygage.com Brooklyn --047d7bea351845025c04d00c8857 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable that was under "previews" preference. also check the output devic= e output modes and quality settings under video preview

On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Teddy Gage <teddygage@g= mail.com> wrote:
I had this similar problem the other day! It= was driving me insane. The composition window looked right on full res sin= gle frames but RAM preview looked like total crap, even in 32bpc. You know = what fixed it?

preferences -> viewer quality -> zoom quality =3D more accurate, = color management quality =3D more accurate.

hope that helps


On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Robert Kjettrup <robe= rt@stvmayday.dk> wrote:
Hi

Just an update on this subject:

<= div>My Z820 just arrived here last week, and now i have it setup with a dec= klink card and a FSi monitor (it is as good as you said Carey :-))
And with this setup i can preview 16bit and 32bit HD AE rampreviews in= realtime out to the FSi, so far so good. But i see horrible banding of ram= ps out of AE with the decklink, something i never saw with the old AJA card= . Even the expected banding in 8bit out of the AJA looks better than the ba= nding i get from the decklink in AE set to 16bit. It looks like a sawtooth = banding pattern with a darkening at fixed interval, and not the "smoot= h" regular banding from the AJA.=A0
There is actually no difference in the output if set to 8, 16 or 32bit= . They all band.
It is not the card that has a problem, because if outputting a 10bit s= equence in Premiere it looks like it should, smooth. So either Blackmagic o= r Adobe should make some software changes to make this better :-(

Are any of you also seeing this?

- Robert



2012/9/27 Carey Dissmore <carey@imug= online.com>
You're welcome.

= I just got an email from Flanders this morning (as paste from it is copied = below). They have a new free firmware update for 12 bit support. I'll h= ave to do this update in a few days as my current project load comes first.= =A0

Carey

What's Be= en Added:
  • 12 bit RGB & YCbCr signal support & 12 bit pro= cessing*
  • Record Status Tally Feature.= Allows the monitor to read Start/Stop Record Flags in the SDI ancillary da= ta of compatible cameras and to indicate when the camera is recording by ac= tivating the monitor's red tally light. ARRI Alexa and Sony cameras wit= h this feature enabled are currently supported.
  • New function button access t= o Log monitoring modes for faster single button press activation of Log mon= itoring modes introduced in the previous firmware release.
  • BETA support of 12 bit XYZ format signals*=A0
Current owne= rs of FSI monitors can download the latest firmware from our update site=A0= http://www.flandersscientific.com/index/Firmware_Updates= =A0where more detailed release notes can also be found. An updated user man= ual is also available:=A0http://www.flandersscientific.com/up= loads/FSIUserManual.pdf

=A0

*12 bit signal support requires your monitor to be equipped with 3Gbps S= DI inputs, which are provided as standard equipment on all current 9" = and larger FSI Monitors.=A0

On Sep 27, 2012, at 5:00 AM, Robert Kjettrup <robert@stvmayday.dk> wrote:=

Thanks for the feedback on A= E output via the Decklink. That isn't very encouraging that you can'= ;t either playback 16/32bit rampreviews in realtime :-(
I=A0have=A0an aging HP XW8400 (the same generation hardware as the fir= st macpro 8 cores) and i also suspect it is my hardware that might be the c= ause of the low framerate in 16bit projects when i have the SDI output acti= ve. Hopefully a new Z820 will do better, the memory bandwidth should be man= y times faster :-)
..or maybe there is a change needed in AE to do the conversion before = sending it to the card, Mercury Transmit in After Effects?

I have send the link for your excellent review of the Flanders mon= itor to the relevant people here at the company.


Robert Kjettrup / Grafiker / = Mayday Film
Mobil: 25 18 95 16
Mail:=A0robert@maydayfilm.dk




2012/9/27 Carey Dissmore <care= y@imugonline.com>
I run the Decklink HD Extreme 3D c= ard on an older (but very upgraded) Mac Pro 3,1 along with a Quadro FX 4800= on displays and a Quadro 4000 on headless GPU grunt. I also run the EXCELL= ENT Flanders LM-2461W monitor on it.

In AE, the card displays 16 bit and 32 bit comps just fine, = but on this output it you get choices of 8 bit, 10 bit or RGB. I choose RGB= in 16 & 32bpc comps.=A0

RAM Preview: When I e= ngage the hardware for RAM previews I get reduced frame rates. I think that= is the fault of my Mac itself and not the card. That generates a lot more = bus traffic to send the image out the card and I don't think this mac c= an handle it. In the next few weeks I am going to be building a new PC that= should have substantially more horsepower and will be moving the BMD card = and the Flanders to that new system so I can report back at that time.=A0

If you are interested, here's my review of the Flan= ders I did on my blog last spring:


All the best,
Carey


On Sep 26, 2012, at 2:53 PM, Robert Kjet= trup <robert@st= vmayday.dk> wrote:

Yes, thats t= he monitor we had for review, and it is looking really amazing. So good tha= t i know of some who have dismissed it as being too good to evaluate what t= he picture would look like on a more "normal" screen :-D
But this PVM version doesn't have 3Gbps SDI or 4:4:4 input as the Fland= ers?
And the interlace processor is not that good on the PVM sony= , not that this is a problem for me, but for others in our company it might= be. We would like to standardise on one brand.
Do you have a problem with the OLED "flicker" on this model?= some had an issue with this when we had the review monitor, some didn'= t see it. I didn't, might be because of me having gone past the 35th bi= rthday :-)...getting older...

I would love to have this Sony monitor at my desk :-)


Rober= t Kjettrup / Grafiker / STV Mayday

Mobil: 25 18 95 16
Mail: robert= @stvmayday.dk


2012/9/26 Brian Higgins <higgins@soldesignfx.com>
http://pro.sony.co= m/bbsc/ssr/cat-monitors/cat-oledmonitors/product-PVM2541/

The features probably don't line up exactly with the Flanders, but = at least take a look and see if it works for you.=A0 The $1k/inch BVMs are = the same panels with fancier processing on the back end to cover things lik= e XYZ space for DI mastering that you might not need.=A0 I've had a PVM= on my desk for the last 6 months or so and have been very, very happy with= it for broadcast work.

$.02,
Brian



On= Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Robert Kjettrup <robert@stvmayday.dk&= gt; wrote:
Hi

= I am reseaching a bit on what SDI card to get for a new AE workstation, and= don't get any positive answers from Blackmagic on what support the Dec= klink Extreme 3D has in After Effects and thought maybe some here on the li= st uses this card and could give some more detailed feedback.

Can this card play back rampreview from AE in realtime = in 16 and 32bit projects to a SDI monitor? My current outdated legacy AJA c= ard (KONA/XENA LH) cant playback 1080/25p 16bit projects in realtime and 32= bit projects is just a bunch of scrambled mess on the SDI output. AJA gives= some very vague feedback that this card is not supported anymore and the n= ew cards are "updated", but nothing about the new cards being abl= e to handle 16/32bit projects.

We are also about to change all our old trusty SD CRT B= arco reference monitors to something more current (about time!) and i have = suggested we should go with Flanders Sci. LM2461W. Is this also in here see= n as the best vs. value monitor?=A0
We have had a Sony OLED monitor for review, and it is absolutely fanta= stic, but a bit pricy if you want the same options as the Flanders.
Does anyone have the TVlogic XVM series?

hope t= his is not too Off Topic for the list?


Robert Kjettrup / Grafiker / STV May= day

Mobil: 25 18 95 16
Mail: robert@stvmayday.dk



=
--
bri= an higgins | creative director
Sol =A0Design





<= /span>






--
Animator & Editor
www.teddygage.com
Brooklyn




--
Animator & Editor
www.teddygage.com
Brooklyn

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