Return-Path: Received: from mail-qc0-f169.google.com ([209.85.216.169] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4916672 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 22:05:57 +0100 Received: by mail-qc0-f169.google.com with SMTP id t2so2302557qcq.28 for ; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 13:09:51 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=s6TZFwzc2LOs/OYTq2HlNZ0UHYbWEGuanTHuBMg4JfI=; b=P+xgUNACniet9T/shMJJEb3qh4CHTKuvKRB/u12r3Et9shhqqsGE5jBuVGKgQE1kq7 3yM1xtPMYS3+oVMSBhG3ZKg2BIRZrfimzK6E2tBO9VN+QLTzUzd7qHuU/gjEh/VRYeTz spjqrI0255Z9+oh5RzTAMn6RoRoSf2WMYvI6KYL7tmAZOn8j/7unI2utpOhG1bXGPv7p qaT4ceaRTRjMSy39sKQ7RxfMPnt5EB+DMXQ7IfIfzj37mJmxsCFzq4pXYYc0YwDk0LYn AvD6YwVgqO/rk58TdUQiD4cAcj96xMBAVZHf2Ijh4+PPQ676WUNWC77RVner3SV+hjZf 86pw== Received: by 10.49.48.43 with SMTP id i11mr28222640qen.3.1354655391341; Tue, 04 Dec 2012 13:09:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.49.129.198 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Dec 2012 13:09:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Robert Kjettrup Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 22:09:31 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Decklink extreme 3D rampreview support + SDI monitors To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b6d89c264dd3804d00d492b X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnENV2AETieK9XlOwPuXk6x7OR/F6vDDu+95H807orrkKI94Jh7SoROKLw30HLfxNFpga+Z --047d7b6d89c264dd3804d00d492b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Teddy under video preview prefs it is set to "more accurate" and the decklink output resolution is set to 1080 50i 10bit (wth!!! no 1080 25p via decklink??????) but it is still banding missing my old slow, but accurate AJA card :-( - Robert 2012/12/4 Teddy Gage > I had this similar problem the other day! It was driving me insane. The > composition window looked right on full res single frames but RAM preview > looked like total crap, even in 32bpc. You know what fixed it? > > preferences -> viewer quality -> zoom quality =3D more accurate, color > management quality =3D more accurate. > > hope that helps > > > On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Robert Kjettrup wrot= e: > >> Hi >> >> Just an update on this subject: >> >> My Z820 just arrived here last week, and now i have it setup with a >> decklink card and a FSi monitor (it is as good as you said Carey :-)) >> And with this setup i can preview 16bit and 32bit HD AE rampreviews in >> realtime out to the FSi, so far so good. But i see horrible banding of >> ramps out of AE with the decklink, something i never saw with the old AJ= A >> card. Even the expected banding in 8bit out of the AJA looks better than >> the banding i get from the decklink in AE set to 16bit. It looks like a >> sawtooth banding pattern with a darkening at fixed interval, and not the >> "smooth" regular banding from the AJA. >> There is actually no difference in the output if set to 8, 16 or 32bit. >> They all band. >> It is not the card that has a problem, because if outputting a 10bit >> sequence in Premiere it looks like it should, smooth. So either Blackmag= ic >> or Adobe should make some software changes to make this better :-( >> >> Are any of you also seeing this? >> >> - Robert >> >> >> >> 2012/9/27 Carey Dissmore >> >>> You're welcome. >>> >>> I just got an email from Flanders this morning (as paste from it is >>> copied below). They have a new free firmware update for 12 bit support. >>> I'll have to do this update in a few days as my current project load co= mes >>> first. >>> >>> Carey >>> >>> *What's Been Added:* >>> >>> - 12 bit RGB & YCbCr signal support & 12 bit processing* >>> - Record Status Tally Feature. Allows the monitor to read Start/Stop >>> Record Flags in the SDI ancillary data of compatible cameras and to >>> indicate when the camera is recording by activating the monitor's re= d tally >>> light. ARRI Alexa and Sony cameras with this feature enabled are cur= rently >>> supported. >>> - New function button access to Log monitoring modes for faster >>> single button press activation of Log monitoring modes introduced in= the >>> previous firmware release. >>> - BETA support of 12 bit XYZ format signals* >>> >>> Current owners of FSI monitors can download the latest firmware from ou= r >>> update site http://www.flandersscientific.com/index/Firmware_Updates where >>> more detailed release notes can also be found. An updated user manual i= s >>> also available: >>> http://www.flandersscientific.com/uploads/FSIUserManual.pdf >>> >>> >>> **12 bit signal support requires your monitor to be equipped with 3Gbps >>> SDI inputs, which are provided as standard equipment on all current 9" = and >>> larger FSI Monitors.** * >>> >>> On Sep 27, 2012, at 5:00 AM, Robert Kjettrup >>> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for the feedback on AE output via the Decklink. That isn't very >>> encouraging that you can't either playback 16/32bit rampreviews in real= time >>> :-( >>> I have an aging HP XW8400 (the same generation hardware as the first >>> macpro 8 cores) and i also suspect it is my hardware that might be the >>> cause of the low framerate in 16bit projects when i have the SDI output >>> active. Hopefully a new Z820 will do better, the memory bandwidth shoul= d be >>> many times faster :-) >>> ..or maybe there is a change needed in AE to do the conversion before >>> sending it to the card, Mercury Transmit in After Effects? >>> >>> I have send the link for your excellent review of the Flanders monitor >>> to the relevant people here at the company. >>> >>> >>> Robert Kjettrup / Grafiker / Mayday Film >>> Mobil: 25 18 95 16 >>> Mail: robert@maydayfilm.dk >>> www.maydayfilm.dk >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2012/9/27 Carey Dissmore >>> >>>> I run the Decklink HD Extreme 3D card on an older (but very upgraded) >>>> Mac Pro 3,1 along with a Quadro FX 4800 on displays and a Quadro 4000 = on >>>> headless GPU grunt. I also run the EXCELLENT Flanders LM-2461W monitor= on >>>> it. >>>> >>>> In AE, the card displays 16 bit and 32 bit comps just fine, but on thi= s >>>> output it you get choices of 8 bit, 10 bit or RGB. I choose RGB in 16 = & >>>> 32bpc comps. >>>> >>>> RAM Preview: When I engage the hardware for RAM previews I get reduced >>>> frame rates. I think that is the fault of my Mac itself and not the ca= rd. >>>> That generates a lot more bus traffic to send the image out the card a= nd I >>>> don't think this mac can handle it. In the next few weeks I am going t= o be >>>> building a new PC that should have substantially more horsepower and w= ill >>>> be moving the BMD card and the Flanders to that new system so I can re= port >>>> back at that time. >>>> >>>> If you are interested, here's my review of the Flanders I did on my >>>> blog last spring: >>>> >>>> http://www.careydissmore.com/?p=3D207 >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> Carey >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 26, 2012, at 2:53 PM, Robert Kjettrup >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Yes, thats the monitor we had for review, and it is looking really >>>> amazing. So good that i know of some who have dismissed it as being to= o >>>> good to evaluate what the picture would look like on a more "normal" s= creen >>>> :-D >>>> But this PVM version doesn't have 3Gbps SDI or 4:4:4 input as the >>>> Flanders? >>>> And the interlace processor is not that good on the PVM sony, not that >>>> this is a problem for me, but for others in our company it might be. W= e >>>> would like to standardise on one brand. >>>> Do you have a problem with the OLED "flicker" on this model? some had >>>> an issue with this when we had the review monitor, some didn't see it.= I >>>> didn't, might be because of me having gone past the 35th birthday >>>> :-)...getting older... >>>> >>>> I would love to have this Sony monitor at my desk :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> Robert Kjettrup / Grafiker / STV Mayday >>>> >>>> Mobil: 25 18 95 16 >>>> Mail: robert@stvmayday.dk >>>> >>>> >>>> 2012/9/26 Brian Higgins >>>> >>>>> Sony PVM 24" OLEDs are amazing, and cost a only little more than the >>>>> Flanders you mentioned. >>>>> >>>>> http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-monitors/cat-oledmonitors/product-PV= M2541/ >>>>> >>>>> The features probably don't line up exactly with the Flanders, but at >>>>> least take a look and see if it works for you. The $1k/inch BVMs are= the >>>>> same panels with fancier processing on the back end to cover things l= ike >>>>> XYZ space for DI mastering that you might not need. I've had a PVM o= n my >>>>> desk for the last 6 months or so and have been very, very happy with = it for >>>>> broadcast work. >>>>> >>>>> $.02, >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Robert Kjettrup wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi >>>>>> >>>>>> I am reseaching a bit on what SDI card to get for a new AE >>>>>> workstation, and don't get any positive answers from Blackmagic on w= hat >>>>>> support the Decklink Extreme 3D has in After Effects and thought may= be some >>>>>> here on the list uses this card and could give some more detailed fe= edback. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can this card play back rampreview from AE in realtime in 16 and >>>>>> 32bit projects to a SDI monitor? My current outdated legacy AJA card >>>>>> (KONA/XENA LH) cant playback 1080/25p 16bit projects in realtime and= 32bit >>>>>> projects is just a bunch of scrambled mess on the SDI output. AJA gi= ves >>>>>> some very vague feedback that this card is not supported anymore and= the >>>>>> new cards are "updated", but nothing about the new cards being able = to >>>>>> handle 16/32bit projects. >>>>>> >>>>>> We are also about to change all our old trusty SD CRT Barco referenc= e >>>>>> monitors to something more current (about time!) and i have suggeste= d we >>>>>> should go with Flanders Sci. LM2461W. Is this also in here seen as t= he best >>>>>> vs. value monitor? >>>>>> We have had a Sony OLED monitor for review, and it is absolutely >>>>>> fantastic, but a bit pricy if you want the same options as the Fland= ers. >>>>>> Does anyone have the TVlogic XVM series? >>>>>> >>>>>> hope this is not too Off Topic for the list? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Robert Kjettrup / Grafiker / STV Mayday >>>>>> >>>>>> Mobil: 25 18 95 16 >>>>>> Mail: robert@stvmayday.dk >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> brian higgins | creative director >>>>> Sol Design >>>>> 312.706.5500 >>>>> higgins@soldesignfx.com >>>>> soldesignfx.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Animator & Editor > www.teddygage.com > Brooklyn > > --047d7b6d89c264dd3804d00d492b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Teddy

under video preview prefs it is set to "mo= re accurate" and the decklink output resolution is set to 1080 50i 10b= it (wth!!! no 1080 25p via decklink??????) but it is still banding
missing my old slow, but accurate AJA card :-(

- Robert


2012/12/4 Teddy Gage &= lt;teddygage@gmail= .com>
I had this similar problem the other day! It was driving me insane. The com= position window looked right on full res single frames but RAM preview look= ed like total crap, even in 32bpc. You know what fixed it?

preferen= ces -> viewer quality -> zoom quality =3D more accurate, color manage= ment quality =3D more accurate.

hope that helps


On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Robert Kjettrup <robe= rt@stvmayday.dk> wrote:
Hi

Just an update on this subject:

<= div>My Z820 just arrived here last week, and now i have it setup with a dec= klink card and a FSi monitor (it is as good as you said Carey :-))
And with this setup i can preview 16bit and 32bit HD AE rampreviews in= realtime out to the FSi, so far so good. But i see horrible banding of ram= ps out of AE with the decklink, something i never saw with the old AJA card= . Even the expected banding in 8bit out of the AJA looks better than the ba= nding i get from the decklink in AE set to 16bit. It looks like a sawtooth = banding pattern with a darkening at fixed interval, and not the "smoot= h" regular banding from the AJA.=A0
There is actually no difference in the output if set to 8, 16 or 32bit= . They all band.
It is not the card that has a problem, because if outputting a 10bit s= equence in Premiere it looks like it should, smooth. So either Blackmagic o= r Adobe should make some software changes to make this better :-(

Are any of you also seeing this?

- Robert



2012/9/27 Carey Dissmore <carey@imug= online.com>
You're welcome.

= I just got an email from Flanders this morning (as paste from it is copied = below). They have a new free firmware update for 12 bit support. I'll h= ave to do this update in a few days as my current project load comes first.= =A0

Carey

What's Be= en Added:
  • 12 bit RGB & YCbCr signal support & 12 bit pro= cessing*
  • Record Status Tally Feature.= Allows the monitor to read Start/Stop Record Flags in the SDI ancillary da= ta of compatible cameras and to indicate when the camera is recording by ac= tivating the monitor's red tally light. ARRI Alexa and Sony cameras wit= h this feature enabled are currently supported.
  • New function button access t= o Log monitoring modes for faster single button press activation of Log mon= itoring modes introduced in the previous firmware release.
  • BETA support of 12 bit XYZ format signals*=A0
Current owne= rs of FSI monitors can download the latest firmware from our update site=A0= http://www.flandersscientific.com/index/Firmware_Updates= =A0where more detailed release notes can also be found. An updated user man= ual is also available:=A0http://www.flandersscientific.com/up= loads/FSIUserManual.pdf

=A0

*12 bit signal support requires your monitor to be equipped with 3Gbps S= DI inputs, which are provided as standard equipment on all current 9" = and larger FSI Monitors.=A0

On Sep 27, 2012, at 5:00 AM, Robert Kjettrup <robert@stvmayday.dk> wrote:=

Thanks for the feedback on A= E output via the Decklink. That isn't very encouraging that you can'= ;t either playback 16/32bit rampreviews in realtime :-(
I=A0have=A0an aging HP XW8400 (the same generation hardware as the fir= st macpro 8 cores) and i also suspect it is my hardware that might be the c= ause of the low framerate in 16bit projects when i have the SDI output acti= ve. Hopefully a new Z820 will do better, the memory bandwidth should be man= y times faster :-)
..or maybe there is a change needed in AE to do the conversion before = sending it to the card, Mercury Transmit in After Effects?

I have send the link for your excellent review of the Flanders mon= itor to the relevant people here at the company.


Robert Kjettrup / Grafiker / = Mayday Film
Mobil: 25 18 95 16
Mail:=A0robert@maydayfilm.dk




2012/9/27 Carey Dissmore <care= y@imugonline.com>
I run the Decklink HD Extreme 3D c= ard on an older (but very upgraded) Mac Pro 3,1 along with a Quadro FX 4800= on displays and a Quadro 4000 on headless GPU grunt. I also run the EXCELL= ENT Flanders LM-2461W monitor on it.

In AE, the card displays 16 bit and 32 bit comps just fine, = but on this output it you get choices of 8 bit, 10 bit or RGB. I choose RGB= in 16 & 32bpc comps.=A0

RAM Preview: When I e= ngage the hardware for RAM previews I get reduced frame rates. I think that= is the fault of my Mac itself and not the card. That generates a lot more = bus traffic to send the image out the card and I don't think this mac c= an handle it. In the next few weeks I am going to be building a new PC that= should have substantially more horsepower and will be moving the BMD card = and the Flanders to that new system so I can report back at that time.=A0

If you are interested, here's my review of the Flan= ders I did on my blog last spring:


All the best,
Carey


On Sep 26, 2012, at 2:53 PM, Robert Kjet= trup <robert@st= vmayday.dk> wrote:

Yes, thats t= he monitor we had for review, and it is looking really amazing. So good tha= t i know of some who have dismissed it as being too good to evaluate what t= he picture would look like on a more "normal" screen :-D
But this PVM version doesn't have 3Gbps SDI or 4:4:4 input as the Fland= ers?
And the interlace processor is not that good on the PVM sony= , not that this is a problem for me, but for others in our company it might= be. We would like to standardise on one brand.
Do you have a problem with the OLED "flicker" on this model?= some had an issue with this when we had the review monitor, some didn'= t see it. I didn't, might be because of me having gone past the 35th bi= rthday :-)...getting older...

I would love to have this Sony monitor at my desk :-)


Rober= t Kjettrup / Grafiker / STV Mayday

Mobil: 25 18 95 16
Mail: robert= @stvmayday.dk


2012/9/26 Brian Higgins <higgins@soldesignfx.com>
http://pro.sony.co= m/bbsc/ssr/cat-monitors/cat-oledmonitors/product-PVM2541/

The features probably don't line up exactly with the Flanders, but = at least take a look and see if it works for you.=A0 The $1k/inch BVMs are = the same panels with fancier processing on the back end to cover things lik= e XYZ space for DI mastering that you might not need.=A0 I've had a PVM= on my desk for the last 6 months or so and have been very, very happy with= it for broadcast work.

$.02,
Brian



On= Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Robert Kjettrup <robert@stvmayday.dk&= gt; wrote:
Hi

= I am reseaching a bit on what SDI card to get for a new AE workstation, and= don't get any positive answers from Blackmagic on what support the Dec= klink Extreme 3D has in After Effects and thought maybe some here on the li= st uses this card and could give some more detailed feedback.

Can this card play back rampreview from AE in realtime = in 16 and 32bit projects to a SDI monitor? My current outdated legacy AJA c= ard (KONA/XENA LH) cant playback 1080/25p 16bit projects in realtime and 32= bit projects is just a bunch of scrambled mess on the SDI output. AJA gives= some very vague feedback that this card is not supported anymore and the n= ew cards are "updated", but nothing about the new cards being abl= e to handle 16/32bit projects.

We are also about to change all our old trusty SD CRT B= arco reference monitors to something more current (about time!) and i have = suggested we should go with Flanders Sci. LM2461W. Is this also in here see= n as the best vs. value monitor?=A0
We have had a Sony OLED monitor for review, and it is absolutely fanta= stic, but a bit pricy if you want the same options as the Flanders.
Does anyone have the TVlogic XVM series?

hope t= his is not too Off Topic for the list?


Robert Kjettrup / Grafiker / STV May= day

Mobil: 25 18 95 16
Mail: robert@stvmayday.dk



=
--
bri= an higgins | creative director
Sol =A0Design





<= /span>






--
Animator & Editor
www.teddygage.com
Brooklyn


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