Return-Path: Received: from gateway14.websitewelcome.com ([67.18.137.86] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 4947405 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 19:46:16 +0100 Received: by gateway14.websitewelcome.com (Postfix, from userid 5007) id D2196FD67675C; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:51:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from gator1184.hostgator.com (gator1184.hostgator.com [174.121.151.98]) by gateway14.websitewelcome.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB5D6FD67672B for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:51:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from [24.163.5.74] (port=64854 helo=Neptune) by gator1184.hostgator.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1TtjhI-0006s2-Lz for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:51:20 -0600 Reply-To: From: "Stephen van Vuuren" To: "'After Effects Mail List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [AE] CS6 Prores4444 16-bit bug? Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:51:08 -0500 Organization: SV2 Studios Message-ID: <021401cdf02c$9e325b60$da971220$@sv2studios.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0215_01CDF002.B55E2820" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJz2vvxslQaH2UcebMDRPh2szjb0Jb4oiIw Content-Language: en-us X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator1184.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - media-motion.tv X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - sv2studios.com X-BWhitelist: yes X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: (Neptune) [24.163.5.74]:64854 X-Source-Auth: stephen@sv2studios.com X-Email-Count: 5 X-Source-Cap: c3RlcGhlbnY7c3RlcGhlbnY7Z2F0b3IxMTg0Lmhvc3RnYXRvci5jb20= This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0215_01CDF002.B55E2820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Teddy, >1. Prores 4444 automatically adds an alpha channel. That is the extra "4" in the 4444. Even if you "turn off" the alpha channel or don't export one, it is still there, in white, so the footage is opaque. Sometimes this may cause the transparency issues That's a good thought. It's possible CS6 is mishandling this. CS5.5 has no problem with it. The issue is that when there is color banding in fade or dissolve (but not everyone, just many) present in the source, it happens. Other footage looks perfect. It really looks like a math problem. >2. Ask the client how the file was exported, there is an FCP 7 bug related to interpretation of the file depending on whether "millions of colors" vs. "millions of colors+" is selected on output, and sequence settings should match. I'm not too clear on the specifics of this one but it's worth looking into. That's my normal DCP workflow, so that's not the issue. As setting the project to 8-bit removes the problem, it points at AE's internal ProRes 4444 decoding. > Make sure that under prefs -> previews -> viewer quality, that "color management quality" and "zoom quality" are both set to "more accurate". That's my default first step in AE due to my IMAX work. But I've additionally confirmed the issue is hard coded in the file in multiple programs as well as in DCP in a theater. stephen van vuuren 336.202.4777 http://www.insaturnsrings.com/ http://www.sv2dcp.com/ http://www.sv2studios.com/ A film is - or should be - more like music than like fiction. It should be a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what's behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes later. -Stanley Kubrick From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of Teddy Gage Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:31 PM To: After Effects Mail List Subject: Re: [AE] CS6 Prores4444 16-bit bug? a couple things I would mention 1. Prores 4444 automatically adds an alpha channel. That is the extra "4" in the 4444. Even if you "turn off" the alpha channel or don't export one, it is still there, in white, so the footage is opaque. Sometimes this may cause the transparency issues 2. Ask the client how the file was exported, there is an FCP 7 bug related to interpretation of the file depending on whether "millions of colors" vs "millions of colors+" is selected on output, and sequence settings should match. I'm not too clear on the specifics of this one but it's worth looking into. 3. stephen, I have had weird banding issues with high quality video files (not just prores) in 32 bpc not related to the actual video, but to the AE display handling. Make sure that under prefs -> previews -> viewer quality, that "color management quality" and "zoom quality" are both set to "more accurate". For some reason this is NOT the default setting. Ditto for these settings under "video preview", if using an external ref monitor. And lastly, double check all your output color management and color preview settings, if color profile simulation is on it can mess with the display hope this helps -TG On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Stephen van Vuuren wrote: I've been able to reproduce this bug with a second ProRes 4444 client file from a very different source. I'm going to file a bug report. stephen van vuuren 336.202.4777 http://www.insaturnsrings.com/ http://www.sv2dcp.com/ http://www.sv2studios.com/ A film is - or should be - more like music than like fiction. It should be a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what's behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes later. -Stanley Kubrick From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of Stephen van Vuuren Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 3:26 PM To: After Effects Mail List Subject: Re: [AE] CS6 Prores4444 16-bit bug? > Have all the files got alpha? We use ProRes4444 a great deal here but often render with alpha off so we do not have to disable in FCP, where it will cause issues or Davinci where we begin getting partially transparent layers. No alpha and set to ignore under interpret footage. stephen van vuuren 336.202.4777 http://www.insaturnsrings.com/ http://www.sv2dcp.com/ http://www.sv2studios.com/ A film is - or should be - more like music than like fiction. It should be a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what's behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes later. -Stanley Kubrick -- Animator & Editor www.teddygage.com Brooklyn ------=_NextPart_000_0215_01CDF002.B55E2820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Teddy,

 

>1. Prores 4444 automatically adds an alpha channel. That = is the extra "4" in the 4444. Even if you "turn off" = the alpha channel or don't export one, it is still there, in white, so = the footage is opaque. Sometimes this may cause the transparency = issues

 

That’s a good thought. It’s possible CS6 is mishandling = this. CS5.5 has no problem with it. The issue is that when there is = color banding in fade or dissolve (but not everyone, just many) present = in the source, it happens. Other footage looks perfect. It really looks = like a math problem.

 

>2. Ask the client how the file was exported, there is an = FCP 7 bug related to interpretation of the file depending on whether = "millions of colors" vs. "millions of colors+" is = selected on output, and sequence settings should match. I'm not too = clear on the specifics of this one but it's worth looking into.

 

That’s my normal DCP workflow, so that’s not the issue. = As setting the project to 8-bit removes the problem, it points at = AE’s internal ProRes 4444 decoding.

 

> Make sure that under prefs -> previews -> viewer = quality, that "color management quality" and "zoom = quality" are both set to "more accurate".

 

That’s my default first step in AE due to my IMAX work. But = I’ve additionally confirmed the issue is hard coded in the file in = multiple programs as well as in DCP in a = theater.

 

stephen van vuuren

336.202.4777

 

http://www.insaturnsrings.com/=

http://www.sv2dcp.com/<= /b>

http://www.sv2studios.com/<= /span>

 

A film is – or should be – more like music than like = fiction. It should be a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, = what’s behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes = later.

–Stanley Kubrick

 

From:= = After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of = Teddy Gage
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:31 = PM
To: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] CS6 = Prores4444 16-bit bug?

 

a couple things I would mention

1. = Prores 4444 automatically adds an alpha channel. That is the extra = "4" in the 4444. Even if you "turn off" the alpha = channel or don't export one, it is still there, in white, so the footage = is opaque. Sometimes this may cause the transparency issues

2. = Ask the client how the file was exported, there is an FCP 7 bug related = to interpretation of the file depending on whether "millions of = colors" vs "millions of colors+" is selected on output, = and sequence settings should match. I'm not too clear on the specifics = of this one but it's worth looking into.

3. stephen, I have had = weird banding issues with high quality video files (not just prores) in = 32 bpc not related to the actual video, but to the AE display handling. = Make sure that under prefs -> previews -> viewer quality, that = "color management quality" and "zoom quality" are = both set to "more accurate". For some reason this is NOT the = default setting. Ditto for these settings under "video = preview", if using an external ref monitor. And lastly, double = check all your output color management and color preview settings, if = color profile simulation is on it can mess with the display

hope = this helps
-TG


On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Stephen van Vuuren = <stephen@sv2studios.com> = wrote:

I’ve been able to reproduce this bug with = a second ProRes 4444 client file from a very different source. I’m = going to file a bug report.

 

stephen van vuuren

336.202.4777

 

http://www.insaturnsrings.com/

http://www.sv2dcp.com/

http://www.sv2studios.com/<= o:p>

 

A film is – or should be = – more like music than like fiction. It should be a progression of = moods and feelings. The theme, what’s behind the emotion, the = meaning, all that comes later.

–Stanley = Kubrick

 

From:= = After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of = Stephen van Vuuren
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 3:26 = PM
To: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] CS6 = Prores4444 16-bit bug?

 <= /o:p>

> Have all the files got alpha? We use = ProRes4444 a great deal here but often render with alpha off so we do = not have to disable in FCP, where it will cause issues or Davinci where = we begin getting partially transparent layers.

 

No alpha and set to ignore under interpret = footage.

 

stephen van vuuren

336.202.4777

 

http://www.insaturnsrings.com/

http://www.sv2dcp.com/

http://www.sv2studios.com/<= o:p>

 

A film is – or should be = – more like music than like fiction. It should be a progression of = moods and feelings. The theme, what’s behind the emotion, the = meaning, all that comes later.

–Stanley = Kubrick

 <= /o:p>




--
Animator & Editor
www.teddygage.com
Brooklyn

=
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