Return-Path: Received: from st11p01mm-asmtp005.mac.com ([17.172.204.240] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 4964368 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 17:18:57 +0100 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_CuN6tuvCr8nrZ1BaiZMqiA)" Received: from [192.168.0.65] (mail.bsl.com [173.195.48.234]) by st11p01mm-asmtp005.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-24.01(7.0.4.24.0) 64bit (built Jan 3 2012)) with ESMTPSA id <0MHJ005TJUWS8840@st11p01mm-asmtp005.mac.com> for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 16:24:29 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.9.8327,1.0.431,0.0.0000 definitions=2013-02-01_04:2013-02-01,2013-02-01,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 suspectscore=2 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=6.0.2-1212290000 definitions=main-1302010102 From: sean cusson Subject: Re: [AE] The History of Adobe After Effects Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 11:24:23 -0500 In-reply-to: To: After Effects Mail List References: Message-id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) --Boundary_(ID_CuN6tuvCr8nrZ1BaiZMqiA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I think trying to define the word "artist" is pretty useless. In my = opinion, if you create something that another person sees value in then = you are an artist. Art is completely subjective so how could anyone = possibly try to define the term "artist" or the requirements necessary = to achieve said title? I know tons of people (including myself) who have = only gone to high school and yet have somehow MIRACULOUSLY carved out a = decent living for themselves. There are definitely advantages to = pursuing an art education (in whatever discipline you choose) but to say = you are not an artist if you don't have formal training is as antiquated = as the first version of AE itself. On 2013-02-01, at 10:47 AM, Teddy Gage wrote: > "When I started out as an 3d artist 19 years ago"...=20 >=20 > You wouldn't happen to be typing this from the retirement home = computer, would you?=20 >=20 > You're certainly grumpy enough to be a grandfather... >=20 > Sent from my iPad >=20 > On Feb 1, 2013, at 10:38 AM, "mylenium@mylenium.de" = wrote: >=20 >> I tend to see it from a different angle, coming from a 3D graphics = background. I don't think anyone was actually excluded in the past. = People just take affordable equipment or things like discounted = education versions for granted these days, luxuries we never had. There = wasn't even something like Blender around when I started out as an 3D = artist 19 years ago. And still, if you only wanted hard enough you could = somehow manage to buy your tools no matter how expensive they may have = been (not talking about a 50000 bucks SGI workstation and another 70000 = bucks Power Animator license, obviously; more like a 3000 bucks = Lightwave license). And instead of the annual upgrade death spiral we = have now, they got an update every 2 years and you actually had time to = learn them and hone your skills and save the money. It works in many = ways, if you get my meaning.... And seeing how many people struggle with = even the simplest tutorials, I'm not sure if it's just a "literacy" = people can pick up or it produces more talent in any way... To me, it = still comes down to this: People, who can't draw a straight line with a = pencil probably shouldn't call themselves "motiongraphics artist". Or in = other words: I consider a classical training/ education just as = important or even more important than just hacking around on the = computer or doing odd things with your digital camera.... >> =20 >> Mylenium >> =20 >> [Pour Myl=E8ne, ange sur terre]=20 >> -----------------------------------------=20 >> www.mylenium.de >>=20 >> James Culbertson hat am 1. Februar 2013 um = 08:37 geschrieben: >>> You are describing film/video Production in general. And film/video = production is now just another literacy, like writing, that people grow = up with. So, yes, there are a lot of folks who just start doing it, and = we are awash in competition. There is a tremendous amount of = incompetence. But at the same time if you have the potential for talent = you are not excluded by inaccessibility to tools. I'll take the trade = off. I find today to be just as exciting a time as the 90's were. >>> =20 >>> James >>> =20 >>>=20 >>> On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:03 PM, mylenium@mylenium.de wrote: >>>=20 >>>> You're talking like people at the retirement home getting all = sentimental... ;-) Things will never be the same. AE has arrived at = being "just another software" that is being used by more people with no = talent or skills than by ones who actually intimately know it. It's just = the way it is, sadly... >>>> =20 >>>> Mylenium >>>> =20 >>>> [Pour Myl=E8ne, ange sur terre] =20 >>>> ----------------------------------------- =20 >>>> www.mylenium.de >>>>=20 >>>> Jim Lang < james.c.lang@gmail.com> hat am 1. Februar 2013 um 06:29 = geschrieben: =20 >>>> > Darn- Totally missed it. =20 >>>> > I've been thinking about the AE history lately. I was at a = pottery =20 >>>> > workshop, and =20 >>>> > the teacher kept telling us that if anyone asked "how'd you do = that!" =20 >>>> > To say you don't remember. =20 >>>> > This got me thinking about how in the beginnings of AE, that = anal, =20 >>>> > secretiveness was the polar opposite and you could go online any = time =20 >>>> > day or night, and a Trish Meyer would always help out. Or a = TSassoon, =20 >>>> > or a Brian Maffitt. And "secrets" were taboo. And because of = that, =20 >>>> > AE took off, attracted geniuses from all over, and and made = history of =20 >>>> > all of the old guard dinosaurs and their secrets and high-end =20= >>>> > equipment. =20 >>>> > That was a dazzling era. =20 >>>> > Of course, nothing this great lasts. =20 >>>> > I've been at this long enough to be able to tell the ethics of a = =20 >>>> > worker by just looking at his/her profect. One of the last = projects I =20 >>>> > worked in was unbelievably booby trapped. It was for a fast =20 >>>> > turnaround network news show, and the dude did certain things = wrong =20 >>>> > then sneakily made layers invisible. All designed to get the =20 >>>> > producers on t =20 >>>> > he phone to get him back. I pointed out all of his shenanigans to = the =20 >>>> > creative director. But back to the point. Way back in the early =20= >>>> > beginnings, what a classy group. =20 >>>> > =20 >>>> > > On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:46 PM, David Simons < ae@cosa.com> = wrote: =20 >>>> > > =20 >>>> > >> In case this event tomorrow hasn't been posted on this list = yet: =20 >>>> > >> =20 >>>> > >> ASK A VIDEO PRO: The History of Adobe After Effects =20 >>>> > >> =20 >>>> > >> Thursday, January 31st, 2013 at 10:00am PST =20 >>>> > >> =20 >>>> > >> REGISTER NOW: http://adobe.ly/p6ZMbd =20 >>>> > >> =20 >>>> > >> About 12 hours from now, Dan Wilk & I will present an = interactive history of =20 >>>> > >> AE, including demos of the old versions. We welcome questions = from the =20 >>>> > >> audience via the chat pod. =20 >>>> > >> =20 >>>> > >> -DaveS =20 >>>> > >> =20 >>>> > >> =20 >>>> > >> =20 >>>> > >> +---End of message---+ =20 >>>> > >> To unsubscribe send any message to < = ae-list-off@media-motion.tv> =20 >>>> > > =20 >>>> > > =20 >>>> > > +---End of message---+ =20 >>>> > > To unsubscribe send any message to < = ae-list-off@media-motion.tv> =20 >>>> > =20 >>>> > +---End of message---+ =20 >>>> > To unsubscribe send any message to < ae-list-off@media-motion.tv> >>=20 >> =20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Animator & Editor > www.teddygage.com > Brooklyn >=20 --Boundary_(ID_CuN6tuvCr8nrZ1BaiZMqiA) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I = think trying to define the word "artist" is pretty useless. In my = opinion, if you create something that another person sees value in then = you are an artist. Art is completely subjective so how could anyone = possibly try to define the term "artist" or the requirements necessary = to achieve said title? I know tons of people (including myself) who = have only gone to high school and yet have somehow MIRACULOUSLY carved = out a decent living for themselves. There are definitely advantages to = pursuing an art education (in whatever discipline you choose) but to say = you are not an artist if you don't have formal training is as antiquated = as the first version of AE = itself.


On 2013-02-01, at 10:47 = AM, Teddy Gage wrote:

"When I started out as an 3d artist 19 years = ago"... 

You wouldn't happen to be typing this = from the retirement home computer, would you? 

You're certainly grumpy enough to be a = grandfather...

Sent from my = iPad

On Feb 1, 2013, at 10:38 AM, "mylenium@mylenium.de" <mylenium@mylenium.de> wrote:

=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20
I tend to see it from a different angle, coming from a 3D graphics = background. I don't think anyone was actually excluded in the past. = People just take affordable equipment or things like discounted = education versions for granted these days, luxuries we never had. There = wasn't even something like Blender around when I started out as an 3D = artist 19 years ago. And still, if you only wanted hard enough you could = somehow manage to buy your tools no matter how expensive they may have = been (not talking about a 50000 bucks SGI workstation and another 70000 = bucks Power Animator license, obviously; more like a 3000 bucks = Lightwave license). And instead of the annual upgrade death spiral we = have now, they got an update every 2 years and you actually had time to = learn them and hone your skills and save the money. It works in many = ways, if you get my meaning.... And seeing how many people struggle with = even the simplest tutorials, I'm not sure if it's just a "literacy" = people can pick up or it produces more talent in any way... To me, it = still comes down to this: People, who can't draw a straight line with a = pencil probably shouldn't call themselves "motiongraphics artist". Or in = other words: I consider a classical training/ education just as = important or even more important than just hacking around on the = computer or doing odd things with your digital camera....
=20
 
=20
Mylenium
=20
 
=20
[Pour Myl=E8ne, ange sur terre]
-----------------------------------------
www.mylenium.de
=20

James Culbertson <albion@speakeasy.net> hat am 1. Februar 2013 um = 08:37 geschrieben:
=20
=20
=20
You are describing film/video Production in general. And film/video = production is now just another literacy, like writing, that people grow = up with. So, yes, there are a lot of folks who just start doing it, and = we are awash in competition. There is a tremendous amount of = incompetence. But at the same time if you have the potential for = talent you are not excluded by inaccessibility to tools. I'll take the = trade off. I find today to be just as exciting a time as the 90's were.
=20
 
=20
James
=20
 
=20
=20
=20
On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:03 PM,=20 mylenium@mylenium.de wrote:
=20
=20
=20
=20
You're talking like people at the retirement home getting all = sentimental... ;-) Things will never be the same. AE has arrived at = being "just another software" that is being used by more people with no = talent or skills than by ones who actually intimately know it. It's just = the way it is, sadly...
=20
 
=20
Mylenium
=20
 
=20
[Pour Myl=E8ne, ange sur terre]  
-----------------------------------------  
www.mylenium.de
=20

Jim Lang < james.c.lang@gmail.com> hat am 1. Februar 2013 = um 06:29 geschrieben:  
> Darn- Totally missed it.  
> I've been thinking about the AE history lately. I was = at a pottery  
> workshop, and  
> the teacher kept telling us that if anyone asked "how'd = you do that!"  
> To say you don't remember.  
> This got me thinking about how in the beginnings of AE, = that anal,  
> secretiveness was the polar opposite and you could go = online any time  
> day or night, and a Trish Meyer would always help out. = Or a TSassoon,  
> or a Brian Maffitt. And "secrets" were taboo. And = because of that,  
> AE took off, attracted geniuses from all over, and and = made history of  
> all of the old guard dinosaurs and their secrets and = high-end  
> equipment.  
> That was a dazzling era.  
> Of course, nothing this great lasts.  
> I've been at this long enough to be able to tell the = ethics of a  
> worker by just looking at his/her profect. One of the = last projects I  
> worked in was unbelievably booby trapped. It was for a = fast  
> turnaround network news show, and the dude did certain = things wrong  
> then sneakily made layers invisible. All designed to = get the  
> producers on t  
> he phone to get him back. I pointed out all of his = shenanigans to the  
> creative director. But back to the point. Way back in = the early  
> beginnings, what a classy group.  
>  
> > On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:46 PM, David Simons < ae@cosa.com> wrote:  
> >  
> >> In case this event tomorrow hasn't been posted = on this list yet:  
> >>  
> >> ASK A VIDEO PRO: The History of Adobe After = Effects  
> >>  
> >> Thursday, January 31st, 2013 at 10:00am PST  
> >>  
> >> REGISTER NOW:   http://adobe.ly/p6ZMbd  
> >>  
> >> About 12 hours from now, Dan Wilk & I will = present an interactive history of  
> >> AE, including demos of the old versions. We = welcome questions from the  
> >> audience via the chat pod.  
> >>  
> >> -DaveS  
> >>  
> >>  
> >>  
> >> +---End of message---+  
> >> To unsubscribe send any message to < ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>  
> >  
> >  
> > +---End of message---+  
> > To unsubscribe send any message to < ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>  
>  
> +---End of message---+  
> To unsubscribe send any message to < ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
 
=20


--
Animator & Editor
www.teddygage.com
Brooklyn


= --Boundary_(ID_CuN6tuvCr8nrZ1BaiZMqiA)--