Return-Path: Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.10] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4964385 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 17:34:14 +0100 Received: from oxbaltgw10.schlund.de (oxbaltgw10.schlund.de [172.19.246.16]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mreu4) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MT2av-1USQlG2eFp-00RybY; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 17:39:59 +0100 Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 17:39:59 +0100 (CET) From: "mylenium@mylenium.de" Reply-To: "mylenium@mylenium.de" To: After Effects Mail List Message-ID: <1906464107.63084.1359736799610.JavaMail.open-xchange@email.1und1.de> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [AE] The History of Adobe After Effects MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_63083_832692877.1359736799538" X-Priority: 3 Importance: Medium X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v- X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:K/P5/i13jiKkgGzQ9H6FN0f/9/1T3LU6TzOsy/PCK8c eotXexDCe16wAP2o674d0LQtsxwp7tXZ2rDFMiD7LNUGvWwcf+ DiEmqT7ZtftwQ6sP8YwEVBir0f9Xdvm/Yoyu+BXsGsePfKvjAN lwdqbR6rpOLSDbhnH7T2kkuK21Lho2Upt6js+LTjzPNpC6exqf 4gmVqhAINzIsZTu/8vEnvzSyRmKfMrJwne89Zm82462v5Rfzlp Wz8vAacDhwea+BpNUjW0eDhShqsn0vbkQ8szK/idkPlzqe/Ri7 i9HAbTWADSEF/H59gqJv10zHnoc50tSZCnOZ2CwVWGWVBwYygW 3JrVxvl2uarFC5pwHC22FR3i54Ihhf7Zhv1mVxlRuO2ZbuHz/H LIW4Adbh1+FXZrShDYklF1baG5I8jPyom8= ------=_Part_63083_832692877.1359736799538 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think my point is more that some people are devoid of both - either an education that allows them to provide "art" (craftsmanship/ tricks of the t= rade/ services whatever you wanna call it) in a certain manner or an "intuitive", inate understanding of "art" - and those should actually never go near a computer or use certain tools. You're not getting an argument about that on= e can make up for the other, but I would still consider a certain level of educat= ion important. Even if you are an artist who does wonderful paintings just from= his gut feeling, it helps if you can rationally explain some color theory, if y= ou get my meaning. And let's not lose sight that everything we do is also a technical process no matter what. So if not on the artsy side, at least a well-founded knowledge helps to let people see your creation. If you wouldn= 't know how to get it on YouTube, you could producxe al lthe most beautiful sh= orts and the world still wouldn't take any notice of you as an "artist"... Mylenium [Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, ange sur terre] ----------------------------------------- www.mylenium.de sean cusson hat am 1. Februar 2013 um 17:24 geschrieben: > I think trying to define the word "artist" is pretty useless. In my opini= on, > if you create something that another person sees value in then you are an > artist. Art is completely subjective so how could anyone possibly try to > define the term "artist" or the requirements necessary to achieve said ti= tle? > I know tons of people (including myself) who have only gone to high schoo= l and > yet have somehow MIRACULOUSLY carved out a decent living for themselves. = There > are definitely advantages to pursuing an art education (in whatever disci= pline > you choose) but to say you are not an artist if you don't have formal tra= ining > is as antiquated as the first version of AE itself. >=20 >=20 > On 2013-02-01, at 10:47 AM, Teddy Gage wrote: >=20 >=20 > > > "When I started out as an 3d artist 19 years ago"... > >=20 > > You wouldn't happen to be typing this from the retirement home > > computer, would you? > >=20 > > You're certainly grumpy enough to be a grandfather... > >=20 > > Sent from my iPad > >=20 > > On Feb 1, 2013, at 10:38 AM, " mylenium@mylenium.de" < > > mylenium@mylenium.de> wrote: > >=20 > > > > > I tend to see it from a different angle, coming= from > > > > > a 3D graphics background. I don't think anyone was actua= lly > > > > > excluded in the past. People just take affordable equipm= ent > > > > > or things like discounted education versions for granted > > > > > these days, luxuries we never had. There wasn't even > > > > > something like Blender around when I started out as an 3= D > > > > > artist 19 years ago. And still, if you only wanted hard > > > > > enough you could somehow manage to buy your tools no mat= ter > > > > > how expensive they may have been (not talking about a 50= 000 > > > > > bucks SGI workstation and another 70000 bucks Power Anim= ator > > > > > license, obviously; more like a 3000 bucks Lightwave > > > > > license). And instead of the annual upgrade death spiral= we > > > > > have now, they got an update every 2 years and you actua= lly > > > > > had time to learn them and hone your skills and save the > > > > > money. It works in many ways, if you get my meaning.... = And > > > > > seeing how many people struggle with even the simplest > > > > > tutorials, I'm not sure if it's just a "literacy" people= can > > > > > pick up or it produces more talent in any way... To me, = it > > > > > still comes down to this: People, who can't draw a strai= ght > > > > > line with a pencil probably shouldn't call themselves > > > > > "motiongraphics artist". Or in other words: I consider a > > > > > classical training/ education just as important or even = more > > > > > important than just hacking around on the computer or do= ing > > > > > odd things with your digital camera.... > > >=20 > > > Mylenium > > >=20 > > > [Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, ange sur terre] > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > www.mylenium.de > > >=20 > > > James Culbertson < albion@speakeasy.net> hat am 1. Februar 2= 013 > > > um 08:37 geschrieben: > > >=20 > > > > > > > You are describing film/video Production = in > > > > > > > general. And film/video production is now just anot= her > > > > > > > literacy, like writing, that people grow up with. S= o, > > > > > > > yes, there are a lot of folks who just start doing = it, > > > > > > > and we are awash in competition. There is a tremend= ous > > > > > > > amount of incompetence. But at the same time if you= have > > > > > > > the potential for talent you are not excluded by > > > > > > > inaccessibility to tools. I'll take the trade off. = I > > > > > > > find today to be just as exciting a time as the 90'= s > > > > > > > were. > > > >=20 > > > > James > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:03 PM, mylenium@mylenium.de wrote: > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > You're talking like people at= the > > > > > > > > > retirement home getting all sentimental... = ;-) > > > > > > > > > Things will never be the same. AE has arriv= ed at > > > > > > > > > being "just another software" that is being= used > > > > > > > > > by more people with no talent or skills tha= n by > > > > > > > > > ones who actually intimately know it. It's = just > > > > > > > > > the way it is, sadly... > > > > >=20 > > > > > Mylenium > > > > >=20 > > > > > [Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, ange sur terre] > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > > > www.mylenium.de > > > > >=20 > > > > > Jim Lang < james.c.lang@gmail.com> hat am 1. Februa= r > > > > > 2013 um 06:29 geschrieben: > > > > > > Darn- Totally missed it. > > > > > > I've been thinking about the AE history lately. I= was > > > > > > at a pottery > > > > > > workshop, and > > > > > > the teacher kept telling us that if anyone asked > > > > > > "how'd you do that!" > > > > > > To say you don't remember. > > > > > > This got me thinking about how in the beginnings = of > > > > > > AE, that anal, > > > > > > secretiveness was the polar opposite and you coul= d go > > > > > > online any time > > > > > > day or night, and a Trish Meyer would always help= out. > > > > > > Or a TSassoon, > > > > > > or a Brian Maffitt. And "secrets" were taboo. And > > > > > > because of that, > > > > > > AE took off, attracted geniuses from all over, an= d and > > > > > > made history of > > > > > > all of the old guard dinosaurs and their secrets = and > > > > > > high-end > > > > > > equipment. > > > > > > That was a dazzling era. > > > > > > Of course, nothing this great lasts. > > > > > > I've been at this long enough to be able to tell = the > > > > > > ethics of a > > > > > > worker by just looking at his/her profect. One of= the > > > > > > last projects I > > > > > > worked in was unbelievably booby trapped. It was = for a > > > > > > fast > > > > > > turnaround network news show, and the dude did ce= rtain > > > > > > things wrong > > > > > > then sneakily made layers invisible. All designed= to > > > > > > get the > > > > > > producers on t > > > > > > he phone to get him back. I pointed out all of hi= s > > > > > > shenanigans to the > > > > > > creative director. But back to the point. Way bac= k in > > > > > > the early > > > > > > beginnings, what a classy group. > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:46 PM, David Simons < > > > > > > > ae@cosa.com> wrote: > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > >> In case this event tomorrow hasn't been posted= on > > > > > > >> this list yet: > > > > > > >>=20 > > > > > > >> ASK A VIDEO PRO: The History of Adobe After Ef= fects > > > > > > >>=20 > > > > > > >> Thursday, January 31st, 2013 at 10:00am PST > > > > > > >>=20 > > > > > > >> REGISTER NOW: http://adobe.ly/p6ZMbd > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>=20 > > > > > > >> About 12 hours from now, Dan Wilk & I will pre= sent > > > > > > >> an interactive history of > > > > > > >> AE, including demos of the old versions. We we= lcome > > > > > > >> questions from the > > > > > > >> audience via the chat pod. > > > > > > >>=20 > > > > > > >> -DaveS > > > > > > >>=20 > > > > > > >>=20 > > > > > > >>=20 > > > > > > >> +---End of message---+ > > > > > > >> To unsubscribe send any message to < > > > > > > >> ae-list-off@media-motion.tv> > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > +---End of message---+ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe send any message to < > > > > > > > ae-list-off@media-motion.tv> > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > +---End of message---+ > > > > > > To unsubscribe send any message to < > > > > > > ae-list-off@media-motion.tv> > > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > >=20 > > -- > > Animator & Editor > > www.teddygage.com > > Brooklyn > >=20 > >=20 > > >=20 ------=_Part_63083_832692877.1359736799538 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 =20 =20
I think my point is more that some people are devoid of both - either an= education that allows them to provide "art" (craftsmanship/ tricks= of the trade/ services whatever you wanna call it) in a certain manner or = an "intuitive", inate understanding of "art" - and those sh= ould actually never go near a computer or use certain tools. You're not= getting an argument about that one can make up for the other, but I would = still consider a certain level of education important. Even if you are an a= rtist who does wonderful paintings just from his gut feeling, it helps if y= ou can rationally explain some color theory, if you get my meaning. And let= 's not lose sight that everything we do is also a technical process no = matter what. So if not on the artsy side, at least a well-founded knowledge= helps to let people see your creation. If you wouldn't know how to get= it on YouTube, you could producxe al lthe most beautiful shorts and the wo= rld still wouldn't take any notice of you as an "artist"...
=20
 
=20
Mylenium
=20
 
=20
[Pour Mylène, ange sur terre]
-----------------------------------------
www.mylenium.de
=20

sean cusson <scusson@mac.com> hat am 1. Februar 2013 um 17:= 24 geschrieben:
=20
=20
I think trying to define the word "artist" is pretty useless. I= n my opinion, if you create something that another person sees value in the= n you are an artist. Art is completely subjective so how could anyone possi= bly try to define the term "artist" or the requirements necessary t= o achieve said title? I know tons of people (including myself) who hav= e only gone to high school and yet have somehow MIRACULOUSLY carved out a d= ecent living for themselves. There are definitely advantages to pursuing an= art education (in whatever discipline you choose) but to say you are not a= n artist if you don't have formal training is as antiquated as the firs= t version of AE itself.=20
=20
 
=20

=20
=20
On 2013-02-01, at 10:47 AM, Teddy Gage wrote:
=20
=20
=20
=20
"When I started out as an 3d artist 19 years ago"... = ;
=20
 
You wouldn't happen to be typing this from the retireme= nt home computer, would you? 
=20
 
=20
You're certainly grumpy enough to be a grandfather...
=20

Sent from my iPad
=20

On Feb 1, 2013, at 10:38 AM, " mylenium@mylenium.de" < mylenium@mylenium.de> wrote:
=20
=20
=20
=20
I tend to see it from a different angle, coming from a 3D graph= ics background. I don't think anyone was actually excluded in the past.= People just take affordable equipment or things like discounted education = versions for granted these days, luxuries we never had. There wasn't ev= en something like Blender around when I started out as an 3D artist 19 year= s ago. And still, if you only wanted hard enough you could somehow manage t= o buy your tools no matter how expensive they may have been (not talking ab= out a 50000 bucks SGI workstation and another 70000 bucks Power Animator li= cense, obviously; more like a 3000 bucks Lightwave license). And instead of= the annual upgrade death spiral we have now, they got an update every 2 ye= ars and you actually had time to learn them and hone your skills and save t= he money. It works in many ways, if you get my meaning.... And seeing how m= any people struggle with even the simplest tutorials, I'm not sure if i= t's just a "literacy" people can pick up or it produces more ta= lent in any way... To me, it still comes down to this: People, who can'= t draw a straight line with a pencil probably shouldn't call themselves= "motiongraphics artist". Or in other words: I consider a classical= training/ education just as important or even more important than just hac= king around on the computer or doing odd things with your digital camera...= .
=20
 
=20
Mylenium
=20
 
=20
[Pour Mylène, ange sur terre]=20
-----------------------------------------=20
www.mylen= ium.de
=20

James Culbertson < albion@speakeasy.net> hat am 1. Fe= bruar 2013 um 08:37 geschrieben:
=20
=20
=20
You are describing film/video Production in general. And film= /video production is now just another literacy, like writing, that people g= row up with. So, yes, there are a lot of folks who just start doing it, and= we are awash in competition. There is a tremendous amount of incompet= ence. But at the same time if you have the potential for talent you ar= e not excluded by inaccessibility to tools. I'll take the trade off. I = find today to be just as exciting a time as the 90's were.
=20
 
=20
James
=20
 
=20
=20
=20
On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:03 PM,=20 mylenium@mylenium.de wrote:
=20
=20
=20
=20
You're talking like people at the retirement home gett= ing all sentimental... ;-) Things will never be the same. AE has arrived at= being "just another software" that is being used by more people wi= th no talent or skills than by ones who actually intimately know it. It'= ;s just the way it is, sadly...
=20
 
=20
Mylenium
=20
 
=20
[Pour Mylène, ange sur terre]=20  =20
-----------------------------------------=20  =20
=20 www.= mylenium.de
=20

Jim Lang <=20 james.c.lang@gmail.com> hat a= m 1. Februar 2013 um 06:29 geschrieben:=20  =20
> Darn- Totally missed it.=20  =20
> I've been thinking about the AE history lat= ely. I was at a pottery=20  =20
> workshop, and=20  =20
> the teacher kept telling us that if anyone aske= d "how'd you do that!"=20  =20
> To say you don't remember.=20  =20
> This got me thinking about how in the beginning= s of AE, that anal,=20  =20
> secretiveness was the polar opposite and you co= uld go online any time=20  =20
> day or night, and a Trish Meyer would always he= lp out. Or a TSassoon,=20  =20
> or a Brian Maffitt. And "secrets" were = taboo. And because of that,=20  =20
> AE took off, attracted geniuses from all over, = and and made history of=20  =20
> all of the old guard dinosaurs and their secret= s and high-end=20  =20
> equipment.=20  =20
> That was a dazzling era.=20  =20
> Of course, nothing this great lasts.=20  =20
> I've been at this long enough to be able to= tell the ethics of a=20  =20
> worker by just looking at his/her profect. One = of the last projects I=20  =20
> worked in was unbelievably booby trapped. It wa= s for a fast=20  =20
> turnaround network news show, and the dude did = certain things wrong=20  =20
> then sneakily made layers invisible. All design= ed to get the=20  =20
> producers on t=20  =20
> he phone to get him back. I pointed out all of = his shenanigans to the=20  =20
> creative director. But back to the point. Way b= ack in the early=20  =20
> beginnings, what a classy group.=20  =20
>=20  =20
> > On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:46 PM, David Simon= s <=20 ae@cosa.com> wrote:=20  =20
> >=20  =20
> >> In case this event tomorrow hasn'= ;t been posted on this list yet:=20  =20
> >>=20  =20
> >> ASK A VIDEO PRO: The History of Adob= e After Effects=20  =20
> >>=20  =20
> >> Thursday, January 31st, 2013 at 10:0= 0am PST=20  =20
> >>=20  =20
> >> REGISTER NOW:=20  =20 http:= //adobe.ly/p6ZMbd=20  =20
> >>=20  =20
> >> About 12 hours from now, Dan Wilk &#= 38; I will present an interactive history of=20  =20
> >> AE, including demos of the old versi= ons. We welcome questions from the=20  =20
> >> audience via the chat pod.=20  =20
> >>=20  =20
> >> -DaveS=20  =20
> >>=20  =20
> >>=20  =20
> >>=20  =20
> >> +---End of message---+=20  =20
> >> To unsubscribe send any message to &= #60;=20 ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>= =20  =20
> >=20  =20
> >=20  =20
> > +---End of message---+=20  =20
> > To unsubscribe send any message to <= =20 ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>= =20  =20
>=20  =20
> +---End of message---+=20  =20
> To unsubscribe send any message to <=20 ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
 
=20
=20
=20
=20

--=20
Animator & Editor
www.teddygage.com
=20 Brooklyn

=20
=20
=20
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=20 ------=_Part_63083_832692877.1359736799538--