Return-Path: Received: from www.digitalanarchy.com ([208.84.113.138] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4964565 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 21:30:58 +0100 Received: from RadiantJimHP (c-69-181-246-69.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [69.181.246.69]) (authenticated bits=0) by aurora2.hosting4less.com (8.13.8/8.13.1) with ESMTP id r11KcYtF002105 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2013 12:38:40 -0800 From: "Jim Tierney" To: "'After Effects Mail List'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [AE] The History of Adobe After Effects Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 12:36:27 -0800 Message-ID: <052601ce00bb$d1279680$7376c380$@digitalanarchy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0527_01CE0078.C3082710" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJKBIL3oc2ac8Jqs+jrx4XEL17IL5dtaleQ Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0527_01CE0078.C3082710 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> One way or another you need to put in the time =20 True, but some folks have a natural gift that requires less time to = develop. Just as someone who is 6=E2=80=994 and stocky has an athletic = advantage over someone that=E2=80=99s 5=E2=80=996 and skinny, I think = most folks have brains that are wired to excel more readily at some = things than others=E2=80=A6 be it art, mathematics, or whatever. But = hard work and perseverance are still necessary to make the most of = whatever gifts you have. =20 =20 Cheers, Jim --------------- =20 Jim Tierney President Digital Anarchy =20 =20 =20 From: After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf = Of Chris Bobotis Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 10:55 AM To: After Effects Mail List Subject: Re: [AE] The History of Adobe After Effects =20 In my experience, I have yet to meet an artist that has come by it = =CB=98naturally=CB=98. One way or another you need to put in the time, = be it =CB=98formal=CB=98 or =CB=98informal=CB=98 training. I think the = 10,000 hour rule applies to art as much as anything else. In other words = you need to put in the time and effort. I have worked with brilliant = artists, some with and some without any formal training. The ones = without any formal training had still put in the time.=20 =20 Some take to conventional teaching methods and a cartesian approach = others just do not. I cannot say one is better than the other. The end = result is what counts, at least to me. =20 Cheers, Chris mettle.com On 2013-02-01, at 1:36 PM, sean cusson wrote: I get it and agree with you that education is always important. I just = took issue with anyone actually defining the term artist. I think 2 of = the defining characteristics of success in this business are awareness = and talent. Both of which can be greatly enhanced by education but can = also have been come by naturally.=20 =20 =20 =20 On 2013-02-01, at 11:39 AM, mylenium@mylenium.de wrote: I think my point is more that some people are devoid of both - either an = education that allows them to provide "art" (craftsmanship/ tricks of = the trade/ services whatever you wanna call it) in a certain manner or = an "intuitive", inate understanding of "art" - and those should actually = never go near a computer or use certain tools. You're not getting an = argument about that one can make up for the other, but I would still = consider a certain level of education important. Even if you are an = artist who does wonderful paintings just from his gut feeling, it helps = if you can rationally explain some color theory, if you get my meaning. = And let's not lose sight that everything we do is also a technical = process no matter what. So if not on the artsy side, at least a = well-founded knowledge helps to let people see your creation. If you = wouldn't know how to get it on YouTube, you could producxe al lthe most = beautiful shorts and the world still wouldn't take any notice of you as = an "artist"... =20 Mylenium =20 [Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, ange sur terre]=20 -----------------------------------------=20 www.mylenium.de =20 sean cusson hat am 1. Februar 2013 um 17:24 = geschrieben: I think trying to define the word "artist" is pretty useless. In my = opinion, if you create something that another person sees value in then = you are an artist. Art is completely subjective so how could anyone = possibly try to define the term "artist" or the requirements necessary = to achieve said title? I know tons of people (including myself) who have = only gone to high school and yet have somehow MIRACULOUSLY carved out a = decent living for themselves. There are definitely advantages to = pursuing an art education (in whatever discipline you choose) but to say = you are not an artist if you don't have formal training is as antiquated = as the first version of AE itself. =20 =20 On 2013-02-01, at 10:47 AM, Teddy Gage wrote: "When I started out as an 3d artist 19 years ago"...=20 =20 You wouldn't happen to be typing this from the retirement home computer, = would you?=20 =20 You're certainly grumpy enough to be a grandfather...=20 Sent from my iPad On Feb 1, 2013, at 10:38 AM, " mylenium@mylenium.de" < = mylenium@mylenium.de> wrote:=20 I tend to see it from a different angle, coming from a 3D graphics = background. I don't think anyone was actually excluded in the past. = People just take affordable equipment or things like discounted = education versions for granted these days, luxuries we never had. There = wasn't even something like Blender around when I started out as an 3D = artist 19 years ago. And still, if you only wanted hard enough you could = somehow manage to buy your tools no matter how expensive they may have = been (not talking about a 50000 bucks SGI workstation and another 70000 = bucks Power Animator license, obviously; more like a 3000 bucks = Lightwave license). And instead of the annual upgrade death spiral we = have now, they got an update every 2 years and you actually had time to = learn them and hone your skills and save the money. It works in many = ways, if you get my meaning.... And seeing how many people struggle with = even the simplest tutorials, I'm not sure if it's just a "literacy" = people can pick up or it produces more talent in any way... To me, it = still comes down to this: People, who can't draw a straight line with a = pencil probably shouldn't call themselves "motiongraphics artist". Or in = other words: I consider a classical training/ education just as = important or even more important than just hacking around on the = computer or doing odd things with your digital camera.... =20 Mylenium =20 [Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, ange sur terre]=20 -----------------------------------------=20 www.mylenium.de =20 James Culbertson < albion@speakeasy.net> hat am 1. Februar 2013 um 08:37 = geschrieben: You are describing film/video Production in general. And film/video = production is now just another literacy, like writing, that people grow = up with. So, yes, there are a lot of folks who just start doing it, and = we are awash in competition. There is a tremendous amount of = incompetence. But at the same time if you have the potential for talent = you are not excluded by inaccessibility to tools. I'll take the trade = off. I find today to be just as exciting a time as the 90's were. =20 James =20 =20 On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:03 PM, mylenium@mylenium.de wrote: You're talking like people at the retirement home getting all = sentimental... ;-) Things will never be the same. AE has arrived at = being "just another software" that is being used by more people with no = talent or skills than by ones who actually intimately know it. It's just = the way it is, sadly... =20 Mylenium =20 [Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, ange sur terre] =20 ----------------------------------------- =20 www.mylenium.de =20 Jim Lang < james.c.lang@gmail.com> hat am 1. Februar 2013 um 06:29 = geschrieben: =20 > Darn- Totally missed it. =20 > I've been thinking about the AE history lately. I was at a pottery =20 > workshop, and =20 > the teacher kept telling us that if anyone asked "how'd you do that!" = =20 > To say you don't remember. =20 > This got me thinking about how in the beginnings of AE, that anal, =20 > secretiveness was the polar opposite and you could go online any time = =20 > day or night, and a Trish Meyer would always help out. Or a TSassoon, = =20 > or a Brian Maffitt. And "secrets" were taboo. And because of that, =20 > AE took off, attracted geniuses from all over, and and made history of = =20 > all of the old guard dinosaurs and their secrets and high-end =20 > equipment. =20 > That was a dazzling era. =20 > Of course, nothing this great lasts. =20 > I've been at this long enough to be able to tell the ethics of a =20 > worker by just looking at his/her profect. One of the last projects I = =20 > worked in was unbelievably booby trapped. It was for a fast =20 > turnaround network news show, and the dude did certain things wrong =20 > then sneakily made layers invisible. All designed to get the =20 > producers on t =20 > he phone to get him back. I pointed out all of his shenanigans to the = =20 > creative director. But back to the point. Way back in the early =20 > beginnings, what a classy group. =20 > =20 > > On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:46 PM, David Simons < ae@cosa.com> wrote: =20 > > =20 > >> In case this event tomorrow hasn't been posted on this list yet: =20 > >> =20 > >> ASK A VIDEO PRO: The History of Adobe After Effects =20 > >> =20 > >> Thursday, January 31st, 2013 at 10:00am PST =20 > >> =20 > >> REGISTER NOW: http://adobe.ly/p6ZMbd =20 > >> =20 > >> About 12 hours from now, Dan Wilk & I will present an interactive = history of =20 > >> AE, including demos of the old versions. We welcome questions from = the =20 > >> audience via the chat pod. =20 > >> =20 > >> -DaveS =20 > >> =20 > >> =20 > >> =20 > >> +---End of message---+ =20 > >> To unsubscribe send any message to < ae-list-off@media-motion.tv> = > > =20 > > =20 > > +---End of message---+ =20 > > To unsubscribe send any message to < ae-list-off@media-motion.tv> =20 > =20 > +---End of message---+ =20 > To unsubscribe send any message to < ae-list-off@media-motion.tv> =20 --=20 Animator & Editor=20 www.teddygage.com =20 Brooklyn =20 =20 =20 Cheers, Chris Mettle.com Skype: Mettlecom =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0527_01CE0078.C3082710 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>> One way or another you need to put in the time

 

True, but some folks have a natural gift that requires less time to = develop. Just as someone who is 6=E2=80=994 and stocky has an athletic = advantage over someone that=E2=80=99s 5=E2=80=996 and skinny, I think = most folks have brains that are wired to excel more readily at some = things than others=E2=80=A6 be it art, mathematics, or whatever. But = hard work and perseverance are still necessary to make the most of = whatever gifts you have.

 

 

Cheers,

Jim

---------------=C2=A0

Jim Tierney

President

Digital Anarchy

 

 

 

From:= = After Effects Mail List [mailto:AE-List@media-motion.tv] On Behalf Of = Chris Bobotis
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 10:55 = AM
To: After Effects Mail List
Subject: Re: [AE] The = History of Adobe After Effects

 

In my = experience, I have yet to meet an artist that has come by it = =CB=98naturally=CB=98. One way or another you need to put in the time, = be it =CB=98formal=CB=98 or =CB=98informal=CB=98 training. I think the = 10,000 hour rule applies to art as much as anything else. In other words = you need to put in the time and effort. I have worked with brilliant = artists, some with and some without any formal training. The ones = without any formal training had still put in the = time. 

 

Some take to conventional teaching methods and a = cartesian approach others just do not. I cannot say one is better than = the other. The end result is what counts, at least to = me.

 

Cheers,

Chris

mettle.com

On 2013-02-01, at 1:36 PM, sean cusson = wrote:



I get = it and agree with you that education is always important. I just took = issue with anyone actually defining the term artist. I think 2 of the = defining characteristics of success in this business are awareness and = talent. Both of which can be greatly enhanced by education but can also = have been come by naturally. 

 

 

 

On = 2013-02-01, at 11:39 AM, mylenium@mylenium.de = wrote:



I think = my point is more that some people are devoid of both - either an = education that allows them to provide "art" (craftsmanship/ = tricks of the trade/ services whatever you wanna call it) in a certain = manner or an "intuitive", inate understanding of = "art" - and those should actually never go near a computer or = use certain tools. You're not getting an argument about that one can = make up for the other, but I would still consider a certain level of = education important. Even if you are an artist who does wonderful = paintings just from his gut feeling, it helps if you can rationally = explain some color theory, if you get my meaning. And let's not lose = sight that everything we do is also a technical process no matter what. = So if not on the artsy side, at least a well-founded knowledge helps to = let people see your creation. If you wouldn't know how to get it on = YouTube, you could producxe al lthe most beautiful shorts and the world = still wouldn't take any notice of you as an = "artist"...

 

Mylenium<= o:p>

 

[Pour = Myl=C3=A8ne, ange sur terre] 
--------------------------= --------------- 
www.mylenium.de


sean = cusson <scusson@mac.com> = hat am 1. Februar 2013 um 17:24 = geschrieben:

I think = trying to define the word "artist" is pretty useless. In my = opinion, if you create something that another person sees value in then = you are an artist. Art is completely subjective so how could anyone = possibly try to define the term "artist" or the requirements = necessary to achieve said title? I know tons of people (including = myself) who have only gone to high school and yet have somehow = MIRACULOUSLY carved out a decent living for themselves. There are = definitely advantages to pursuing an art education (in whatever = discipline you choose) but to say you are not an artist if you don't = have formal training is as antiquated as the first version of AE = itself.

 

&nbs= p;

On = 2013-02-01, at 10:47 AM, Teddy Gage wrote:



<= o:p>

"Whe= n I started out as an 3d artist 19 years = ago"... 

 

You = wouldn't happen to be typing this from the retirement home computer, = would you? 

 

You're = certainly grumpy enough to be a grandfather... 


Sent = from my iPad


On = Feb 1, 2013, at 10:38 AM, " mylenium@mylenium.de" = < mylenium@mylenium.de> = wrote: 

I tend = to see it from a different angle, coming from a 3D graphics background. = I don't think anyone was actually excluded in the past. People just take = affordable equipment or things like discounted education versions for = granted these days, luxuries we never had. There wasn't even something = like Blender around when I started out as an 3D artist 19 years ago. And = still, if you only wanted hard enough you could somehow manage to buy = your tools no matter how expensive they may have been (not talking about = a 50000 bucks SGI workstation and another 70000 bucks Power Animator = license, obviously; more like a 3000 bucks Lightwave license). And = instead of the annual upgrade death spiral we have now, they got an = update every 2 years and you actually had time to learn them and hone = your skills and save the money. It works in many ways, if you get my = meaning.... And seeing how many people struggle with even the simplest = tutorials, I'm not sure if it's just a "literacy" people can = pick up or it produces more talent in any way... To me, it still comes = down to this: People, who can't draw a straight line with a pencil = probably shouldn't call themselves "motiongraphics artist". Or = in other words: I consider a classical training/ education just as = important or even more important than just hacking around on the = computer or doing odd things with your digital = camera....

 

Mylenium<= o:p>

 

[Pour = Myl=C3=A8ne, ange sur terre] 
--------------------------= --------------- 
www.mylenium.de


James= Culbertson < albion@speakeasy.net> hat am = 1. Februar 2013 um 08:37 = geschrieben:

You are = describing film/video Production in general. And film/video production = is now just another literacy, like writing, that people grow up with. = So, yes, there are a lot of folks who just start doing it, and we are = awash in competition. There is a tremendous amount of = incompetence. But at the same time if you have the potential for = talent you are not excluded by inaccessibility to tools. I'll take the = trade off. I find today to be just as exciting a time as the 90's = were.

 

James

 

&nbs= p;

On Jan = 31, 2013, at 11:03 PM, mylenium@mylenium.de wrote:



<= o:p>

You're = talking like people at the retirement home getting all sentimental... = ;-) Things will never be the same. AE has arrived at being "just = another software" that is being used by more people with no talent = or skills than by ones who actually intimately know it. It's just the = way it is, sadly...

 

Mylenium<= o:p>

 

[Pour = Myl=C3=A8ne, ange sur terre]   
--------------------------= ---------------   
www.mylenium.de


Jim = Lang < james.c.lang@gmail.com> = hat am 1. Februar 2013 um 06:29 geschrieben:   
> Darn- Totally missed = it.   
> I've been thinking = about the AE history lately. I was at a pottery   
> workshop, and   
> the teacher kept = telling us that if anyone asked "how'd you do that!"   
> To say you don't = remember.   
> This got me thinking = about how in the beginnings of AE, that anal,   
> secretiveness was = the polar opposite and you could go online any time   
> day or night, and a = Trish Meyer would always help out. Or a TSassoon,   
> or a Brian Maffitt. = And "secrets" were taboo. And because of that,   
> AE took off, = attracted geniuses from all over, and and made history of   
> all of the old guard = dinosaurs and their secrets and high-end   
> equipment.   
> That was a dazzling = era.   
> Of course, nothing = this great lasts.   
> I've been at this = long enough to be able to tell the ethics of a   
> worker by just = looking at his/her profect. One of the last projects I   
> worked in was = unbelievably booby trapped. It was for a fast   
> turnaround network = news show, and the dude did certain things wrong   
> then sneakily made = layers invisible. All designed to get the   
> producers on t   
> he phone to get him = back. I pointed out all of his shenanigans to the   
> creative director. = But back to the point. Way back in the early   
> beginnings, what a = classy group.   
>   
> > On Jan 30, = 2013, at 11:46 PM, David Simons < ae@cosa.com> wrote:   
> >   
> >> In case = this event tomorrow hasn't been posted on this list yet:   
> >>   
> >> ASK A VIDEO = PRO: The History of Adobe After Effects   
> >>   
> >> Thursday, = January 31st, 2013 at 10:00am PST   
> >>   
> >> REGISTER = NOW:   http://adobe.ly/p6ZMbd   
> >>   
> >> About 12 = hours from now, Dan Wilk & I will present an interactive history = of   
> >> AE, = including demos of the old versions. We welcome questions from the   
> >> audience = via the chat pod.   
> >>   
> >> -DaveS   
> >>   
> >>   
> >>   
> >> +---End of = message---+   
> >> To = unsubscribe send any message to < ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>   
> >   
> >   
> > +---End of = message---+   
> > To unsubscribe = send any message to < ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>   
>   
> +---End of = message---+   
> To unsubscribe send = any message to < ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>


 = ;



-= - 
Animator & Editor 
www.teddygage.com 
Brooklyn

 

 

 

Cheers,

Chris

Mettle.com

Skype: Mettlecom



 

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