Return-Path: Received: from mail-vc0-f174.google.com ([209.85.220.174] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 4964801 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Sat, 02 Feb 2013 05:34:47 +0100 Received: by mail-vc0-f174.google.com with SMTP id n11so2865735vch.5 for ; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 20:40:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:content-type; bh=+UqQI6DCXJ3hTSb4ZYSly7NXWuV+QQPmkMZwaAvCGX8=; b=cc0GY80YrxuvXtFgSM3VU+6hPxDpGogcwS8QuBuKQ2toOcGIB0B/VbIxwvUoM/KmlL O6daq7kCrewZoayul2/wy4Fl7Xn2OlB4jhpAa3LhIKLjxwCsNFfiA4/1Du88PV30t3iv 6gtwpgLlQpT1xh/OtTPAs8YNNNuns0VnGMbko+3sclsyDOo5Tjwy59rZs3hFCDRohX4O tHsJTnz2Sps4lHUvehR3mAat8vYKhZtmyRgF2lIqNNt0EnbNd77ik6YMYhDdG5Bj62u/ fVHO25glB5it29yrSYBxg9RiOlJLbOxCF4gGbp2eoDPPy3JhFs0o5DT8rAkNFmCPLLel 9WNg== X-Received: by 10.220.154.66 with SMTP id n2mr13412788vcw.40.1359780033046; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 20:40:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.74.10 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Feb 2013 20:40:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Bruce Wainer Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 23:40:12 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] The History of Adobe After Effects To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043be0b0d7aa8804d4b675cf --f46d043be0b0d7aa8804d4b675cf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just finished watching the 20 years of AE History and it was very interesting.....especially since I turn 20 this March. Bruce Wainer On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 10:37 PM, Enrique Gamez w= rote: > I wonder if a book on mediocrity would sell? Working title: "Ordinary > People". > > -enrique > > > From: Carey Dissmore > Reply-To: After Effects Mail List > Date: Friday, February 1, 2013 3:05 PM > To: After Effects Mail List > Subject: Re: [AE] The History of Adobe After Effects > > You guys should really read this book. It is absolutely brilliant and I > just can't recommend it enough. > http://amzn.to/VBP7lx > > Carey > > On Feb 1, 2013, at 3:07 PM, Chris Meyer wrote: > > I think there are artists that have more of a knack (or "natural talent") > than others - but I've also both learned and observed that even if you ha= ve > that natural talent, it can be improved through study and practice. And > meanwhile, those with the natural benefits can still learn most or all of > what's needed. > > - Chris > > > > On Feb 1, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Chris Bobotis wrote: > > In my experience, I have yet to meet an artist that has come by it > =CB=98naturally=CB=98. One way or another you need to put in the time, be= it =CB=98formal=CB=98 > or =CB=98informal=CB=98 training. I think the 10,000 hour rule applies to= art as much > as anything else. In other words you need to put in the time and effort. = I > have worked with brilliant artists, some with and some without any formal > training. The ones without any formal training had still put in the time. > > Some take to conventional teaching methods and a cartesian approach other= s > just do not. I cannot say one is better than the other. The end result is > what counts, at least to me. > > Cheers, > Chris > mettle.com > On 2013-02-01, at 1:36 PM, sean cusson wrote: > > I get it and agree with you that education is always important. I just > took issue with anyone actually defining the term artist. I think 2 of th= e > defining characteristics of success in this business are awareness and > talent. Both of which can be greatly enhanced by education but can also > have been come by naturally. > > > > On 2013-02-01, at 11:39 AM, mylenium@mylenium.de wrote: > > I think my point is more that some people are devoid of both - either an > education that allows them to provide "art" (craftsmanship/ tricks of the > trade/ services whatever you wanna call it) in a certain manner or an > "intuitive", inate understanding of "art" - and those should actually nev= er > go near a computer or use certain tools. You're not getting an argument > about that one can make up for the other, but I would still consider a > certain level of education important. Even if you are an artist who does > wonderful paintings just from his gut feeling, it helps if you can > rationally explain some color theory, if you get my meaning. And let's no= t > lose sight that everything we do is also a technical process no matter > what. So if not on the artsy side, at least a well-founded knowledge help= s > to let people see your creation. If you wouldn't know how to get it on > YouTube, you could producxe al lthe most beautiful shorts and the world > still wouldn't take any notice of you as an "artist"... > > Mylenium > > [Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, ange sur terre] > ----------------------------------------- > www.mylenium.de > > sean cusson hat am 1. Februar 2013 um 17:24 geschrieben= : > I think trying to define the word "artist" is pretty useless. In my > opinion, if you create something that another person sees value in then y= ou > are an artist. Art is completely subjective so how could anyone possibly > try to define the term "artist" or the requirements necessary to achieve > said title? I know tons of people (including myself) who have only gone t= o > high school and yet have somehow MIRACULOUSLY carved out a decent living > for themselves. There are definitely advantages to pursuing an art > education (in whatever discipline you choose) but to say you are not an > artist if you don't have formal training is as antiquated as the first > version of AE itself. > > > On 2013-02-01, at 10:47 AM, Teddy Gage wrote: > > "When I started out as an 3d artist 19 years ago"... > > You wouldn't happen to be typing this from the retirement home computer, > would you? > > You're certainly grumpy enough to be a grandfather... > > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 1, 2013, at 10:38 AM, " mylenium@mylenium.de" < > mylenium@mylenium.de> wrote: > I tend to see it from a different angle, coming from a 3D graphics > background. I don't think anyone was actually excluded in the past. Peopl= e > just take affordable equipment or things like discounted education versio= ns > for granted these days, luxuries we never had. There wasn't even somethin= g > like Blender around when I started out as an 3D artist 19 years ago. And > still, if you only wanted hard enough you could somehow manage to buy you= r > tools no matter how expensive they may have been (not talking about a 500= 00 > bucks SGI workstation and another 70000 bucks Power Animator license, > obviously; more like a 3000 bucks Lightwave license). And instead of the > annual upgrade death spiral we have now, they got an update every 2 years > and you actually had time to learn them and hone your skills and save the > money. It works in many ways, if you get my meaning.... And seeing how ma= ny > people struggle with even the simplest tutorials, I'm not sure if it's ju= st > a "literacy" people can pick up or it produces more talent in any way... = To > me, it still comes down to this: People, who can't draw a straight line > with a pencil probably shouldn't call themselves "motiongraphics artist". > Or in other words: I consider a classical training/ education just as > important or even more important than just hacking around on the computer > or doing odd things with your digital camera.... > > Mylenium > > [Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, ange sur terre] > ----------------------------------------- > www.mylenium.de > James Culbertson < albion@speakeasy.net> hat am 1. Februar 2013 um 08:37 > geschrieben: > You are describing film/video Production in general. And film/video > production is now just another literacy, like writing, that people grow u= p > with. So, yes, there are a lot of folks who just start doing it, and we a= re > awash in competition. There is a tremendous amount of incompetence. But a= t > the same time if you have the potential for talent you are not excluded b= y > inaccessibility to tools. I'll take the trade off. I find today to be jus= t > as exciting a time as the 90's were. > > James > > > On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:03 PM, mylenium@mylenium.de wrote: > You're talking like people at the retirement home getting all > sentimental... ;-) Things will never be the same. AE has arrived at being > "just another software" that is being used by more people with no talent = or > skills than by ones who actually intimately know it. It's just the way it > is, sadly... > > Mylenium > > [Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, ange sur terre] > ----------------------------------------- > www.mylenium.de > Jim Lang < james.c.lang@gmail.com> hat am 1. Februar 2013 um 06:29 > geschrieben: > > Darn- Totally missed it. > > I've been thinking about the AE history lately. I was at a pottery > > workshop, and > > the teacher kept telling us that if anyone asked "how'd you do that!" > > To say you don't remember. > > This got me thinking about how in the beginnings of AE, that anal, > > secretiveness was the polar opposite and you could go online any time > > day or night, and a Trish Meyer would always help out. Or a TSassoon, > > or a Brian Maffitt. And "secrets" were taboo. And because of that, > > AE took off, attracted geniuses from all over, and and made history of > > all of the old guard dinosaurs and their secrets and high-end > > equipment. > > That was a dazzling era. > > Of course, nothing this great lasts. > > I've been at this long enough to be able to tell the ethics of a > > worker by just looking at his/her profect. One of the last projects I > > worked in was unbelievably booby trapped. It was for a fast > > turnaround network news show, and the dude did certain things wrong > > then sneakily made layers invisible. All designed to get the > > producers on t > > he phone to get him back. I pointed out all of his shenanigans to the > > creative director. But back to the point. Way back in the early > > beginnings, what a classy group. > > > > > On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:46 PM, David Simons < ae@cosa.com> wrote: > > > > > >> In case this event tomorrow hasn't been posted on this list yet: > > >> > > >> ASK A VIDEO PRO: The History of Adobe After Effects > > >> > > >> Thursday, January 31st, 2013 at 10:00am PST > > >> > > >> REGISTER NOW: http://adobe.ly/p6ZMbd > > >> > > >> About 12 hours from now, Dan Wilk & I will present an interactive > history of > > >> AE, including demos of the old versions. We welcome questions from > the > > >> audience via the chat pod. > > >> > > >> -DaveS > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> +---End of message---+ > > >> To unsubscribe send any message to < ae-list-off@media-motion.tv> > > > > > > > > > +---End of message---+ > > > To unsubscribe send any message to < ae-list-off@media-motion.tv> > > > > +---End of message---+ > > To unsubscribe send any message to < ae-list-off@media-motion.tv> > > > -- > Animator & Editor > www.teddygage.com > Brooklyn > > > > Cheers, > Chris > Mettle.com > Skype: Mettlecom > > > > > > --f46d043be0b0d7aa8804d4b675cf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just finished watching the 20 years of AE History a= nd it was very interesting.....especially since I turn 20 this March.
Bruce Wainer


On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 10:37 PM, Enrique Gamez <enrique0210@sbcglo= bal.net> wrote:
I wonder if a book on mediocrity would sell? =C2=A0Working titl= e: =C2=A0"Ordinary People".

-enrique


From: Carey Dissmore <carey@imugonline.com= >
Reply-To: After Effects Ma= il List <AE= -List@media-motion.tv>
Date: Friday, February 1, 2013 3:0= 5 PM
To: After Effects Mail Lis= t <AE-List@= media-motion.tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] The History of A= dobe After Effects

You guys should really read this book. It i= s absolutely brilliant and I just can't recommend it enough.=C2=A0

Carey

On Feb 1, 20= 13, at 3:07 PM, Chris Meyer <chris@crishdesign.com> wrote:

I think t= here are artists that have more of a knack (or "natural talent") = than others - but I've also both learned and observed that even if you = have that natural talent, it can be improved through study and practice. An= d meanwhile, those with the natural benefits can still learn most or all of= what's needed.

=C2=A0- Chris



On Feb 1, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Chris Bobotis wrote:

In my experience, I hav= e yet to meet an artist that has come by it =CB=98naturally=CB=98. One way = or another you need to put in the time, be it =CB=98formal=CB=98 or =CB=98i= nformal=CB=98 training. I think the 10,000 hour rule applies to art as much= as anything else. In other words you need to put in the time and effort. I= have worked with brilliant artists, some with and some without any formal = training. The ones without any formal training had still put in the time.= =C2=A0

Some take to conventional teaching methods and a cartesian a= pproach others just do not. I cannot say one is better than the other. The = end result is what counts, at least to me.

Cheers,
Chris
mettl= e.com
On 2013-02-01, at 1:36 PM, sean cusson wrote:
<= br>
I get it a= nd agree with you that education is always important. I just took issue wit= h anyone actually defining the term artist. I think 2 of the defining chara= cteristics of success in this business are awareness and talent. Both of wh= ich can be greatly enhanced by education but can also have been come by nat= urally.=C2=A0



On 2013-02-01, at 11:39 AM, mylenium@mylenium.de= wrote:

I think my point is more that some people are devoid of both - either an ed= ucation that allows them to provide "art" (craftsmanship/ tricks = of the trade/ services whatever you wanna call it) in a certain manner or a= n "intuitive", inate understanding of "art" - and those= should actually never go near a computer or use certain tools. You're = not getting an argument about that one can make up for the other, but I wou= ld still consider a certain level of education important. Even if you are a= n artist who does wonderful paintings just from his gut feeling, it helps i= f you can rationally explain some color theory, if you get my meaning. And = let's not lose sight that everything we do is also a technical process = no matter what. So if not on the artsy side, at least a well-founded knowle= dge helps to let people see your creation. If you wouldn't know how to = get it on YouTube, you could producxe al lthe most beautiful shorts and the= world still wouldn't take any notice of you as an "artist"..= .
=C2=A0
Mylenium
=C2=A0
[Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, ang= e sur terre]=C2=A0
-----------------------------------------=C2=A0
www.mylenium.de
sean cusson <s= cusson@mac.com> hat am 1. Februar 2013 um 17:24 geschrieben:
I think trying to define the word "artist" is pretty useless. In = my opinion, if you create something that another person sees value in then = you are an artist. Art is completely subjective so how could anyone possibl= y try to define the term "artist" or the requirements necessary t= o achieve said title?=C2=A0I know tons of people (including myself) who hav= e only gone to high school and yet have somehow MIRACULOUSLY carved out a d= ecent living for themselves. There are definitely advantages to pursuing an= art education (in whatever discipline you choose) but to say you are not a= n artist if you don't have formal training is as antiquated as the firs= t version of AE itself.
=C2=A0

On 2013-02-01, at 10:47 AM, Teddy Gage wrote:
"When I started out as an 3d artist 19 years a= go"...=C2=A0
=C2=A0
You wouldn't happen to be typin= g this from the retirement home computer, would you?=C2=A0
=C2=A0
You're certainly grumpy enough to be a gr= andfather...=C2=A0

Sent from my iPad

On F= eb 1, 2013, at 10:38 AM, "=C2=A0mylenium@mylenium.de" <= =C2=A0mylenium@mylenium.de> wrote:=C2=A0
I tend to see it from a different angle, coming from a 3D graphics bac= kground. I don't think anyone was actually excluded in the past. People= just take affordable equipment or things like discounted education version= s for granted these days, luxuries we never had. There wasn't even some= thing like Blender around when I started out as an 3D artist 19 years ago. = And still, if you only wanted hard enough you could somehow manage to buy y= our tools no matter how expensive they may have been (not talking about a 5= 0000 bucks SGI workstation and another 70000 bucks Power Animator license, = obviously; more like a 3000 bucks Lightwave license). And instead of the an= nual upgrade death spiral we have now, they got an update every 2 years and= you actually had time to learn them and hone your skills and save the mone= y. It works in many ways, if you get my meaning.... And seeing how many peo= ple struggle with even the simplest tutorials, I'm not sure if it's= just a "literacy" people can pick up or it produces more talent = in any way... To me, it still comes down to this: People, who can't dra= w a straight line with a pencil probably shouldn't call themselves &quo= t;motiongraphics artist". Or in other words: I consider a classical tr= aining/ education just as important or even more important than just hackin= g around on the computer or doing odd things with your digital camera....
=C2=A0
Mylenium
=C2=A0
[Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, ang= e sur terre]=C2=A0
-----------------------------------------=C2=A0
www.mylenium.de
= James Culbertson <=C2=A0albion@speakeasy.net> hat am 1. Februa= r 2013 um 08:37 geschrieben:
You are describing film/video Production in general. And film/video product= ion is now just another literacy, like writing, that people grow up with. S= o, yes, there are a lot of folks who just start doing it, and we are awash = in competition.=C2=A0There is a tremendous amount of incompetence.=C2=A0But= at the same time if you have the potential for talent you are not excluded= by inaccessibility to tools. I'll take the trade off. I find today to = be just as exciting a time as the 90's were.
=C2=A0
James
=C2=A0

On Jan 31, 2013, at 1= 1:03 PM,=C2=A0mylenium@mylenium.de=C2=A0wrote:
You're ta= lking like people at the retirement home getting all sentimental... ;-) Thi= ngs will never be the same. AE has arrived at being "just another soft= ware" that is being used by more people with no talent or skills than = by ones who actually intimately know it. It's just the way it is, sadly= ...
=C2=A0
Mylenium
=C2=A0
[Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, ang= e sur terre]=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
-----------------------------------------= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
www.mylenium.de
Jim Lang <=C2=A0james.c.lang@gmail.com>= ; hat am 1. Februar 2013 um 06:29 geschrieben:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> Darn- Totally missed it.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> I've been think= ing about the AE history lately. I was at a pottery=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
&g= t; workshop, and=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> the teacher kept telling us that= if anyone asked "how'd you do that!"=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> To say you don't remember.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> This got me t= hinking about how in the beginnings of AE, that anal,=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
= > secretiveness was the polar opposite and you could go online any time= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> day or night, and a Trish Meyer would always hel= p out. Or a TSassoon,=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> or a Brian Maffitt. And "secrets" were taboo. And because of= that,=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> AE took off, attracted geniuses from all o= ver, and and made history of=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> all of the old guard= dinosaurs and their secrets and high-end=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> equipment.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> That was a dazzling era.=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0
> Of course, nothing this great lasts.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0> I've been at this long enough to be able to tell the ethics of a= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> worker by just looking at his/her profect. One o= f the last projects I=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> worked in was unbelievably booby trapped. It was for a fast=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0
> turnaround network news show, and the dude did certain th= ings wrong=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> then sneakily made layers invisible. A= ll designed to get the=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> producers on t=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> he phone to get him back. I p= ointed out all of his shenanigans to the=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> creative= director. But back to the point. Way back in the early=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0> beginnings, what a classy group.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> > On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:46 PM, David Sim= ons <=C2=A0ae@co= sa.com> wrote:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
&= gt; >> In case this event tomorrow hasn't been posted on this lis= t yet:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >> ASK A VIDEO PRO: The Histo= ry of Adobe After Effects=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0
> >> Thursday, January 31st, 2013 at 10:00am PST=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0
> >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >> REGISTER NOW:= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0http= ://adobe.ly/p6ZMbd=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >> About 12 hours from now, D= an Wilk & I will present an interactive history of=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0> >> AE, including demos of the old versions. We welcome question= s from the=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >> audience via the chat pod.=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >> -DaveS=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0> >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
>= ; >>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >> +---End of message---+=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0
> >> To unsubscribe send any message to <=C2=A0= ae-= list-off@media-motion.tv>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> > +--= -End of message---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> > To unsubscribe send any = message to <=C2=A0ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
> +---End of message---+=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
= > To unsubscribe send any message to <=C2=A0ae-list-off@media-motion.tv<= /a>>
=C2=A0

--=C2=A0
Animator & Editor=C2=A0
www.teddygage= .com=C2=A0
Brooklyn=C2=A0

=

Cheers,
Chris
Skype: Mettlecom





--f46d043be0b0d7aa8804d4b675cf--