Return-Path: Received: from na3sys009aog127.obsmtp.com ([74.125.149.107] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with SMTP id 4964808 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Sat, 02 Feb 2013 06:27:23 +0100 Received: from mail-ve0-f197.google.com ([209.85.128.197]) (using TLSv1) by na3sys009aob127.postini.com ([74.125.148.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUQylFZl0PZ3nWxX8baHqsDJXTfSsXKlK@postini.com; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 21:33:11 PST Received: by mail-ve0-f197.google.com with SMTP id 15so738721vea.4 for ; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 21:33:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=totaltraining.com; s=google; h=x-received:x-received:from:content-type:message-id:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:x-mailer; bh=WZ2JmENhqbcyv39ZPHvVj+M+eV44Xbfi2LaEzGekigA=; b=w5ywKUWJcqEDIskpLZTvPQ5kGIFXA8Qx2ilDHHNTRsbIBoWHql9xVvL4c9PPpqk9iq VSGZ4ymYzf7dJiX5vlnm0yl4k3GeFzTb7TPZ4edmUKeL9bbiw+CUxa6+JBpLMQJHUAm0 W/JzoZ+IaR3SBk3oiDMFcUliQLz+fKR76LhfM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-received:from:content-type:message-id:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state; bh=WZ2JmENhqbcyv39ZPHvVj+M+eV44Xbfi2LaEzGekigA=; b=nAyJJf47oSDVcFgrprBb89vrpGF5PUJm3m8G7WpaHnglaIgS/YPDr4fVyGNai+EXGX 6wshxw0hUDHrakV2gLwNnWs7mxJNUptXhL1VujnqMWBp7z51ujBBRFQxj2m/seBL9h87 ZLRkSB1c9B3SXKRUmxAEdHJ12GpGIDMIZft8x8d1fRd+ElRrjNR3fNAYRnkd5Z/2MMtX J+HjsH0qEJCC8CLyuKFg54PxM/JJOin2QgVr7Cj0eF80THZvGjrT69roYOJDCquLnuAZ P3iJiXgwtxPtoK8bntfDwkw1KwBko3l37e5KStji5OypU7JtwdxBAR8xDXKGbjVlUEb+ Gokw== X-Received: by 10.58.243.166 with SMTP id wz6mr9385753vec.28.1359783189207; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 21:33:09 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.58.243.166 with SMTP id wz6mr9385744vec.28.1359783188844; Fri, 01 Feb 2013 21:33:08 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from macintosh-5.home (pool-108-29-120-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net. [108.29.120.46]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u5sm10388337vef.0.2013.02.01.21.33.05 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 01 Feb 2013 21:33:07 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Maffitt Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_514E7342-7F6D-4B43-9B33-D8E2B177BCBC" Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Subject: Re: [AE] The History of Adobe After Effects Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2013 00:33:04 -0500 References: To: "After Effects Mail List" In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlKiLlfvCHs8rUu40gwb4OMbUr0UAIQNNoydAkCxEx7WsSYcmthcToJ049sL/TX0Bsr9s6Q0ALWpF5oRWmqxmya65mNDUkPkfCKJzOqliD4gtGE8yNWU7wmsETXw35D43kbBfdTSne8tLwVexVJ+nQLp130VBxr/wI+Gkrhkze5b/pUVlA= --Apple-Mail=_514E7342-7F6D-4B43-9B33-D8E2B177BCBC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I'm just going to huddle over here in the corner and smack myself with = this 8-track tape. > I just finished watching the 20 years of AE History and it was very = interesting.....especially since I turn 20 this March. >=20 > Bruce Wainer >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 10:37 PM, Enrique Gamez = wrote: > I wonder if a book on mediocrity would sell? Working title: = "Ordinary People". >=20 > -enrique >=20 >=20 > From: Carey Dissmore > Reply-To: After Effects Mail List > Date: Friday, February 1, 2013 3:05 PM > To: After Effects Mail List > Subject: Re: [AE] The History of Adobe After Effects >=20 > You guys should really read this book. It is absolutely brilliant and = I just can't recommend it enough.=20 > http://amzn.to/VBP7lx >=20 > Carey >=20 > On Feb 1, 2013, at 3:07 PM, Chris Meyer wrote: >=20 >> I think there are artists that have more of a knack (or "natural = talent") than others - but I've also both learned and observed that even = if you have that natural talent, it can be improved through study and = practice. And meanwhile, those with the natural benefits can still learn = most or all of what's needed. >>=20 >> - Chris >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Feb 1, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Chris Bobotis wrote: >>=20 >>> In my experience, I have yet to meet an artist that has come by it = =CB=98naturally=CB=98. One way or another you need to put in the time, = be it =CB=98formal=CB=98 or =CB=98informal=CB=98 training. I think the = 10,000 hour rule applies to art as much as anything else. In other words = you need to put in the time and effort. I have worked with brilliant = artists, some with and some without any formal training. The ones = without any formal training had still put in the time.=20 >>>=20 >>> Some take to conventional teaching methods and a cartesian approach = others just do not. I cannot say one is better than the other. The end = result is what counts, at least to me. >>>=20 >>> Cheers, >>> Chris >>> mettle.com >>> On 2013-02-01, at 1:36 PM, sean cusson wrote: >>>=20 >>>> I get it and agree with you that education is always important. I = just took issue with anyone actually defining the term artist. I think 2 = of the defining characteristics of success in this business are = awareness and talent. Both of which can be greatly enhanced by education = but can also have been come by naturally.=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 2013-02-01, at 11:39 AM, mylenium@mylenium.de wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> I think my point is more that some people are devoid of both - = either an education that allows them to provide "art" (craftsmanship/ = tricks of the trade/ services whatever you wanna call it) in a certain = manner or an "intuitive", inate understanding of "art" - and those = should actually never go near a computer or use certain tools. You're = not getting an argument about that one can make up for the other, but I = would still consider a certain level of education important. Even if you = are an artist who does wonderful paintings just from his gut feeling, it = helps if you can rationally explain some color theory, if you get my = meaning. And let's not lose sight that everything we do is also a = technical process no matter what. So if not on the artsy side, at least = a well-founded knowledge helps to let people see your creation. If you = wouldn't know how to get it on YouTube, you could producxe al lthe most = beautiful shorts and the world still wouldn't take any notice of you as = an "artist"... >>>>> =20 >>>>> Mylenium >>>>> =20 >>>>> [Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, ange sur terre]=20 >>>>> -----------------------------------------=20 >>>>> www.mylenium.de >>>>>=20 >>>>> sean cusson hat am 1. Februar 2013 um 17:24 = geschrieben: >>>>> I think trying to define the word "artist" is pretty useless. In = my opinion, if you create something that another person sees value in = then you are an artist. Art is completely subjective so how could anyone = possibly try to define the term "artist" or the requirements necessary = to achieve said title? I know tons of people (including myself) who have = only gone to high school and yet have somehow MIRACULOUSLY carved out a = decent living for themselves. There are definitely advantages to = pursuing an art education (in whatever discipline you choose) but to say = you are not an artist if you don't have formal training is as antiquated = as the first version of AE itself. >>>>> =20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On 2013-02-01, at 10:47 AM, Teddy Gage wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> "When I started out as an 3d artist 19 years ago"...=20 >>>>> =20 >>>>> You wouldn't happen to be typing this from the retirement home = computer, would you?=20 >>>>> =20 >>>>> You're certainly grumpy enough to be a grandfather...=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 10:38 AM, " mylenium@mylenium.de" < = mylenium@mylenium.de> wrote:=20 >>>>> I tend to see it from a different angle, coming from a 3D graphics = background. I don't think anyone was actually excluded in the past. = People just take affordable equipment or things like discounted = education versions for granted these days, luxuries we never had. There = wasn't even something like Blender around when I started out as an 3D = artist 19 years ago. And still, if you only wanted hard enough you could = somehow manage to buy your tools no matter how expensive they may have = been (not talking about a 50000 bucks SGI workstation and another 70000 = bucks Power Animator license, obviously; more like a 3000 bucks = Lightwave license). And instead of the annual upgrade death spiral we = have now, they got an update every 2 years and you actually had time to = learn them and hone your skills and save the money. It works in many = ways, if you get my meaning.... And seeing how many people struggle with = even the simplest tutorials, I'm not sure if it's just a "literacy" = people can pick up or it produces more talent in any way... To me, it = still comes down to this: People, who can't draw a straight line with a = pencil probably shouldn't call themselves "motiongraphics artist". Or in = other words: I consider a classical training/ education just as = important or even more important than just hacking around on the = computer or doing odd things with your digital camera.... >>>>> =20 >>>>> Mylenium >>>>> =20 >>>>> [Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, ange sur terre]=20 >>>>> -----------------------------------------=20 >>>>> www.mylenium.de >>>>> James Culbertson < albion@speakeasy.net> hat am 1. Februar 2013 um = 08:37 geschrieben: >>>>> You are describing film/video Production in general. And = film/video production is now just another literacy, like writing, that = people grow up with. So, yes, there are a lot of folks who just start = doing it, and we are awash in competition. There is a tremendous amount = of incompetence. But at the same time if you have the potential for = talent you are not excluded by inaccessibility to tools. I'll take the = trade off. I find today to be just as exciting a time as the 90's were. >>>>> =20 >>>>> James >>>>> =20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Jan 31, 2013, at 11:03 PM, mylenium@mylenium.de wrote: >>>>> You're talking like people at the retirement home getting all = sentimental... ;-) Things will never be the same. AE has arrived at = being "just another software" that is being used by more people with no = talent or skills than by ones who actually intimately know it. It's just = the way it is, sadly... >>>>> =20 >>>>> Mylenium >>>>> =20 >>>>> [Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, ange sur terre] =20 >>>>> ----------------------------------------- =20 >>>>> www.mylenium.de >>>>> Jim Lang < james.c.lang@gmail.com> hat am 1. Februar 2013 um 06:29 = geschrieben: =20 >>>>> > Darn- Totally missed it. =20 >>>>> > I've been thinking about the AE history lately. I was at a = pottery =20 >>>>> > workshop, and =20 >>>>> > the teacher kept telling us that if anyone asked "how'd you do = that!" =20 >>>>> > To say you don't remember. =20 >>>>> > This got me thinking about how in the beginnings of AE, that = anal, =20 >>>>> > secretiveness was the polar opposite and you could go online any = time =20 >>>>> > day or night, and a Trish Meyer would always help out. Or a = TSassoon, =20 >>>>> > or a Brian Maffitt. And "secrets" were taboo. And because of = that, =20 >>>>> > AE took off, attracted geniuses from all over, and and made = history of =20 >>>>> > all of the old guard dinosaurs and their secrets and high-end =20= >>>>> > equipment. =20 >>>>> > That was a dazzling era. =20 >>>>> > Of course, nothing this great lasts. =20 >>>>> > I've been at this long enough to be able to tell the ethics of a = =20 >>>>> > worker by just looking at his/her profect. One of the last = projects I =20 >>>>> > worked in was unbelievably booby trapped. It was for a fast =20 >>>>> > turnaround network news show, and the dude did certain things = wrong =20 >>>>> > then sneakily made layers invisible. All designed to get the =20= >>>>> > producers on t =20 >>>>> > he phone to get him back. I pointed out all of his shenanigans = to the =20 >>>>> > creative director. But back to the point. Way back in the early = =20 >>>>> > beginnings, what a classy group. =20 >>>>> > =20 >>>>> > > On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:46 PM, David Simons < ae@cosa.com> = wrote: =20 >>>>> > > =20 >>>>> > >> In case this event tomorrow hasn't been posted on this list = yet: =20 >>>>> > >> =20 >>>>> > >> ASK A VIDEO PRO: The History of Adobe After Effects =20 >>>>> > >> =20 >>>>> > >> Thursday, January 31st, 2013 at 10:00am PST =20 >>>>> > >> =20 >>>>> > >> REGISTER NOW: http://adobe.ly/p6ZMbd =20 >>>>> > >> =20 >>>>> > >> About 12 hours from now, Dan Wilk & I will present an = interactive history of =20 >>>>> > >> AE, including demos of the old versions. We welcome questions = from the =20 >>>>> > >> audience via the chat pod. =20 >>>>> > >> =20 >>>>> > >> -DaveS =20 >>>>> > >> =20 >>>>> > >> =20 >>>>> > >> =20 >>>>> > >> +---End of message---+ =20 >>>>> > >> To unsubscribe send any message to < = ae-list-off@media-motion.tv> =20 >>>>> > > =20 >>>>> > > =20 >>>>> > > +---End of message---+ =20 >>>>> > > To unsubscribe send any message to < = ae-list-off@media-motion.tv> =20 >>>>> > =20 >>>>> > +---End of message---+ =20 >>>>> > To unsubscribe send any message to < = ae-list-off@media-motion.tv> >>>>> =20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> --=20 >>>>> Animator & Editor=20 >>>>> www.teddygage.com=20 >>>>> Brooklyn=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Cheers, >>> Chris >>> Mettle.com >>> Skype: Mettlecom >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_514E7342-7F6D-4B43-9B33-D8E2B177BCBC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
I just finished watching the 20 years of AE History and = it was very interesting.....especially since I turn 20 this = March.

Bruce Wainer


On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 10:37 PM, Enrique Gamez <enrique0210@sbcglobal.net> = wrote:
I wonder if a book on mediocrity would sell?  Working = title:  "Ordinary = People".

-enrique


From: Carey Dissmore <carey@imugonline.com>
Reply-To: After Effects Mail List = <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Date: Friday, February 1, 2013 = 3:05 PM
To: After Effects = Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Subject: Re: [AE] The History = of Adobe After Effects

You = guys should really read this book. It is absolutely brilliant and I just = can't recommend it enough. 

Carey=

On Feb 1, 2013, at 3:07 PM, Chris Meyer <chris@crishdesign.com> wrote:

I = think there are artists that have more of a knack (or "natural talent") = than others - but I've also both learned and observed that even if you = have that natural talent, it can be improved through study and practice. = And meanwhile, those with the natural benefits can still learn most or = all of what's needed.

 - = Chris



On Feb 1, = 2013, at 11:55 AM, Chris Bobotis wrote:

In my experience, I = have yet to meet an artist that has come by it =CB=98naturally=CB=98. = One way or another you need to put in the time, be it =CB=98formal=CB=98 = or =CB=98informal=CB=98 training. I think the 10,000 hour rule applies = to art as much as anything else. In other words you need to put in the = time and effort. I have worked with brilliant artists, some with and = some without any formal training. The ones without any formal training = had still put in the time. 

Some take to conventional teaching methods and a = cartesian approach others just do not. I cannot say one is better than = the other. The end result is what counts, at least to = me.

Cheers,
Chris
mettle.com
On 2013-02-01, at 1:36 PM, = sean cusson wrote:

I get it and agree with you that = education is always important. I just took issue with anyone actually = defining the term artist. I think 2 of the defining characteristics of = success in this business are awareness and talent. Both of which can be = greatly enhanced by education but can also have been come by = naturally. 



On 2013-02-01, at 11:39 AM, mylenium@mylenium.de wrote:

I think my point is more that some people are devoid of both - either an = education that allows them to provide "art" (craftsmanship/ tricks of = the trade/ services whatever you wanna call it) in a certain manner or = an "intuitive", inate understanding of "art" - and those should actually = never go near a computer or use certain tools. You're not getting an = argument about that one can make up for the other, but I would still = consider a certain level of education important. Even if you are an = artist who does wonderful paintings just from his gut feeling, it helps = if you can rationally explain some color theory, if you get my meaning. = And let's not lose sight that everything we do is also a technical = process no matter what. So if not on the artsy side, at least a = well-founded knowledge helps to let people see your creation. If you = wouldn't know how to get it on YouTube, you could producxe al lthe most = beautiful shorts and the world still wouldn't take any notice of you as = an "artist"...
 
Mylenium
 
[Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, = ange sur = terre] 
----------------------------------------- 
www.mylenium.de

sean cusson <scusson@mac.com> = hat am 1. Februar 2013 um 17:24 geschrieben:
I think trying to define the word "artist" is pretty useless. In my = opinion, if you create something that another person sees value in then = you are an artist. Art is completely subjective so how could anyone = possibly try to define the term "artist" or the requirements necessary = to achieve said title? I know tons of people (including myself) who = have only gone to high school and yet have somehow MIRACULOUSLY carved = out a decent living for themselves. There are definitely advantages to = pursuing an art education (in whatever discipline you choose) but to say = you are not an artist if you don't have formal training is as antiquated = as the first version of AE itself.
 

On 2013-02-01, at 10:47 AM, Teddy Gage = wrote:

"When I started out as an 3d = artist 19 years ago"... 
 
You wouldn't happen = to be typing this from the retirement home computer, would = you? 
 
You're certainly grumpy enough to be a = grandfather... 

Sent from my = iPad

On Feb 1, 2013, at 10:38 AM, = " mylenium@mylenium.de" = < mylenium@mylenium.de> wrote: 
I tend to see it from a different angle, coming from a 3D graphics = background. I don't think anyone was actually excluded in the past. = People just take affordable equipment or things like discounted = education versions for granted these days, luxuries we never had. There = wasn't even something like Blender around when I started out as an 3D = artist 19 years ago. And still, if you only wanted hard enough you could = somehow manage to buy your tools no matter how expensive they may have = been (not talking about a 50000 bucks SGI workstation and another 70000 = bucks Power Animator license, obviously; more like a 3000 bucks = Lightwave license). And instead of the annual upgrade death spiral we = have now, they got an update every 2 years and you actually had time to = learn them and hone your skills and save the money. It works in many = ways, if you get my meaning.... And seeing how many people struggle with = even the simplest tutorials, I'm not sure if it's just a "literacy" = people can pick up or it produces more talent in any way... To me, it = still comes down to this: People, who can't draw a straight line with a = pencil probably shouldn't call themselves "motiongraphics artist". Or in = other words: I consider a classical training/ education just as = important or even more important than just hacking around on the = computer or doing odd things with your digital camera....
 
Mylenium
 
[Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, = ange sur = terre] 
----------------------------------------- 
www.mylenium.de
James Culbertson = < albion@speakeasy.net> hat am 1. Februar 2013 um = 08:37 geschrieben:
You are describing film/video Production in general. And film/video = production is now just another literacy, like writing, that people grow = up with. So, yes, there are a lot of folks who just start doing it, and = we are awash in competition. There is a tremendous amount of = incompetence. But at the same time if you have the potential for = talent you are not excluded by inaccessibility to tools. I'll take the = trade off. I find today to be just as exciting a time as the 90's = were.
 
James
 

On Jan 31, 2013, = at 11:03 PM, mylenium@mylenium.de wrote:
You're = talking like people at the retirement home getting all sentimental... = ;-) Things will never be the same. AE has arrived at being "just another = software" that is being used by more people with no talent or skills = than by ones who actually intimately know it. It's just the way it is, = sadly...
 
Mylenium
 
[Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, = ange sur = terre]   
----------------------------------------- = ;  
www.mylenium.de
Jim Lang = < james.c.lang@gmail.com> hat am 1. Februar 2013 um = 06:29 geschrieben:   
> Darn- Totally missed it.   
> I've been = thinking about the AE history lately. I was at a = pottery   
> workshop, = and   
> the teacher kept telling us that if anyone = asked "how'd you do that!"   
> To say you don't remember.   
> This got me = thinking about how in the beginnings of AE, that = anal,   
> secretiveness was the polar opposite and = you could go online any time   
> day or night, and = a Trish Meyer would always help out. Or a = TSassoon,   
> or a Brian Maffitt. And "secrets" were taboo. And because of = that,   
> AE took off, attracted geniuses from all = over, and and made history of   
> all of the old = guard dinosaurs and their secrets and high-end   
> equipment.   
> That was a dazzling = era.   
> Of course, nothing this great = lasts.   
> I've been at this long enough to be = able to tell the ethics of a   
> worker by just = looking at his/her profect. One of the last projects = I   
> worked in was unbelievably booby trapped. It was for a = fast   
> turnaround network news show, and the = dude did certain things wrong   
> then sneakily = made layers invisible. All designed to get the   
> producers on t   
> he phone to get him back. = I pointed out all of his shenanigans to the   
> = creative director. But back to the point. Way back in the = early   
> beginnings, what a classy = group.   
>   
> > On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:46 PM, David = Simons < ae@cosa.com> wrote:   
> = >   
> >> In case this event tomorrow = hasn't been posted on this list yet:   
> >>   
> >> ASK A VIDEO PRO: The = History of Adobe After Effects   
> = >>   
> >> Thursday, January 31st, 2013 = at 10:00am PST   
> = >>   
> >> REGISTER = NOW:   http://adobe.ly/p6ZMbd   
> >>   
> >> About 12 hours from = now, Dan Wilk & I will present an interactive history = of   
> >> AE, including demos of the old = versions. We welcome questions from the   
> = >> audience via the chat pod.   
> >>   
> >> = -DaveS   
> >>   
> = >>   
> >>   
> = >> +---End of message---+   
> >> To = unsubscribe send any message to < ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>    > >   
> >   
> > = +---End of message---+   
> > To unsubscribe = send any message to < ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>    >   
> +---End of = message---+   
> To unsubscribe send any message to = < ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>
 

--&= nbsp;
Animator & Editor 
www.teddygage.com 
Brooklyn 


Cheers,
Chris
Skype: = Mettlecom




=



= --Apple-Mail=_514E7342-7F6D-4B43-9B33-D8E2B177BCBC--