Return-Path: Received: from mail-vc0-f179.google.com ([209.85.220.179] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5052515 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 22:42:32 +0200 Received: by mail-vc0-f179.google.com with SMTP id hz10so1587631vcb.38 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 13:50:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=zJaSV4KylxQnALFWTPw5lMfUIuJiVeMjWFqYCdX35z4=; b=zDaD6pnLGCNgeyUSpvff/k2GfgI+uvhmVvxZHZ7Cwnq+SJsOIdvUMslEitDKOCiFfw FrWA0yF91DIwXmCA/spe8Qi4tudqsTf5UonaeszKs18TGata6uFNIqzBrNL4C9pDfSDo Wo+0E2t4/1Hf4t2pJe7nN8Owl51vyjWY8ShsQBk/zSzMQ8BTQihH7Lbbxjdrix6IGe35 Ikf0vkMj8YLJPQRjg8dcmZ8bcbi88biJl55uHjrNcsihafLeZzo75i4VlVLTHWgnJoLB STMW+MhCQ19obVr3CMNd++ROFkS+eGmtZtd+ImFhL0KFKp4w45hch9HCuFtWc5rzANuB X1DA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.25.8 with SMTP id y8mr25162638vdf.88.1367009456513; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 13:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.73.35 with HTTP; Fri, 26 Apr 2013 13:50:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 16:50:56 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Creative Cloud Updaters don't work From: Dean Forss To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec501620f0fb17204db49b13f --bcaec501620f0fb17204db49b13f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I hear you Jim on this one but alas, I have no choice. Ivory uses the damn iLok and when my iLok key failed I had to buy another one. I got a hold of Synthogy and told them they were crazy to go with iLok when they had the worlds best piano and we have to rely on antiquated and worst yet - unreliable licensing schemes. They said they were reviewing the options and gave me a two week code while I waited for a new iLok to arrive. Painful... Dean On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Jim Curtis wrote: > I do a fair amount of work in DAWs, and my policy is to not buy anything > that requires iLok. > > There is an extravaganza of audio plugs in existence. None of them that > require iLok are must-haves. Not even the exalted Altiverb or anything > Waves makes. IMO. > > iLok exists as a fat smelly low paid security guard with a bad attitude > for honest people to use the products they purchased honestly. I don't s= ee > why anybody would support such a model. > > I buy the software I use, and to ask me to pay an additional fee and jump > additional hoops just to have access to it is offensive. > > I was fine with the Ae dongles. They never failed me. I did have an Avi= d > dongle go bad once, but it was a PACE product. No surprise there. > > > > > On Apr 26, 2013, at 12:26 PM, adam mercado wrote: > > > ugh, iLok. Had to use them with Waves audio VSTs. Music software > licensing is SO archaic. I just thank the heavens the AE dongle is a thin= g > of the past, and wish the music software companies would catch up. It see= ms > Waves finally are, as their V9 edition uses a soft licensing tool and has > got rid of iLok at last > > > > > > > > Adam Mercado > > Influxx Media Production > > Fullerton, CA > > > > Moving Images. For Business > > 714=B0928=B09896 > > http://www.influxx.com > > http://www.twitter.com/influxx > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/influxx > > http://influxx.tumblr.com/archive > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/influxx > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 25, 2013, at 12:45 PM, Jim Curtis wrote: > > > >> Yes, due to Murphy's Law, it's likely to go haywire at the worst > possible moment. > >> > >> Have you heard this joke of a service that Pace / iLok offers called > "Zero Downtime?" When you read the fine print, you realize that zero > doesn't mean what it used to. It means something decidedly non-zero. I > hate that company. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Apr 25, 2013, at 2:36 PM, Robert W. Walker wrote: > >> > >>> This is the sort of thing that scares the crap out of me with regard = to > >>> Cloud. > >>> > >>> Robert W. Walker > >>> Los Angeles > >>> > >>> > >>>> -------- Original Message -------- > >>>> Subject: Re: [AE] Creative Cloud Updaters don't work > >>>> From: Jim Curtis > >>>> Date: Thu, April 25, 2013 2:58 pm > >>>> To: "After Effects Mail List" > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I can't help, but I can attest that the cleaner tool and uninstall > functions leave plenty of Adobe files on your system. In the past, when = I > had just one CS suite installed, and ran uninstall and the cleaner script= s, > I'd do an EasyFind for "Adobe," and would locate over 30 files with "adob= e" > in the name. > >>>> > >>>> And I would expect that authorization files don't have "adobe" in th= e > name, and likely invisible, to make them harder to crack. > >>>> > >>>> I think that's why a fresh OS install first is the only way to do a > clean install of the apps. You also should get the thirty day trial rese= t > on a clean OS install. That may at least allow you to finish your work > until you get your authorization issues sussed. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Apr 25, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Daniel Monro wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hey Benny, > >>>>> > >>>>> I went from C3 to CS6 on this machine, with iterations of all > builds. I had those same remnants that the adobe cleaner didn't get, too.= I > gathered them up manually and burned them to a disc and then deleted all = of > them. Never gave me trouble and I've never needed that disc.... > >>>>> > >>>>> For what its worth. > >>>>> > >>>>> Good luck, > >>>>> D > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On ThursdayApr 252013, at 11:50 AM, Benny Christensen < > bennychristensen@me.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I have bits of Adobe stuff in my Library going back to CS3. Who > starts every update with a virgin system and hard drive? I still have > working versions of CS5.5 apps because until recently I CS6 wouldn't run > all of the plugins I have. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I would give the error codes, but I have already read the dozens o= f > related threads on the Adobe and Google search sites. Some of these error= s > go back to CS5 updates. None of them have provided a cure beyond erasing > everything and starting over, which still doesn't work. That just results > in a different error code. Plus, it takes forever to download and install > all this stuff, and I have a dual T1 connection. FOREVER. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I have tried this on a fairly new Macbook Pro and my main MacPro > computer. Same deal. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Look, I am no fan of the cloud because of exactly this kind of BS. > Adobe isn't doing me any favors. I don't owe them anything. They sell > (rent) me tools and I use them to make money. When their delivery mechani= sm > is as buggy as this, they deserve to answer for it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I've been using Photoshop & After Effects since the early 90's. If > there was a better alternative I would use them and forget about Adobe. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Extremely frustrated today. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Benny Christensen > >>>>>> Producers Playhouse > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Apr 25, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Steve Oakley wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> you ran the clean up script set to scorched earth mode ? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> w/o getting into the particulars when I was doing a lot of > installs / uninstalls on a machine and it got wonky, that always worked. > did you try running it twice ? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> well if the clean up script isn't working... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> try doing a finder search for CS5, CS5.5 and CS6 and turn on ( > hit plus sign ) System Files are included > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> this will turn up any last stray bits of the installs, drag them > off to the trash and empty. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> a lot of those files are in System HD/library/application > support/Adobe and users/your user name/library/application support and > user prefs folder. if library folders aren't visible, google how to enabl= e > their visibility. its a single command line thing to copy and paste to > enable them in 10.8 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> another question - where the apps install onto the system drive ? > or another location ? and do you possibly have a dual boot setup ? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> S > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Apr 25, 2013, at 10:15 AM, Benny Christensen < > bennychristensen@me.com> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Did that. Doesn't work. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Benny Christensen > >>>>>>>> Producers Playhouse > >>>>>>>> Oklahoma City > >>>>>>>> 405-858-0700 > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> "To be is to do"--Socrates > >>>>>>>> "To do is to be"--Jean-Paul Sartre > >>>>>>>> "Do be do be do"--Frank Sinatra > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Apr 25, 2013, at 10:08 AM, Steve Oakley wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> you can't just trash your apps. they have to be properly > uninstalled because the uninstall process updates local housekeeping file= s > on the apps status and removes a lot of other files. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> google "adobe cleanup script" > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> go get it. run it and follow the in app directions. this > removes not just the apps, but the housekeeping files too. consider it th= e > nukular deinstall. then reinstall apps. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> honestly with the local .DMG install file its pretty fast and > painless, especially with SSD :) > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> if you had CS6 installed from DVD / .DMG on the machine and > switched to cloud ... lets just say sometimes @!#t happens and the clean > up script should get you going. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> the cloud installers do really work. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> S > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Apr 25, 2013, at 8:27 AM, Benny Christensen < > bennychristensen@me.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I have all over this for the past few (wasted) days since > signing up for the Creative Cloud. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> None of the updaters work. NONE OF THEM WORK!!!! > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> There are postings all over describing the errors and the best > Adobe can come up with is to trash all my apps and start over. Are you > kidding me? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I accidentally did that and the updaters still don't work. THE= Y > STILL DON"T WORK!! > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> If it is not ready for the real world they shouldn't be trying > to force it down our throats. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I'm ranting because this is wasting way too much of my time. > AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!! > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Benny Christensen > >>>>>>>>>> Producers Playhouse > >>>>>>>>>> Oklahoma City > >>>>>>>>>> +---End of message---+ > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to > > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> +---End of message---+ > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> +---End of message---+ > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> +---End of message---+ > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> +---End of message---+ > >>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> +---End of message---+ > >>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> +---End of message---+ > >>>> To unsubscribe send any message to > >>> > >>> +---End of message---+ > >>> To unsubscribe send any message to > >> > >> > >> +---End of message---+ > >> To unsubscribe send any message to > > > > > > +---End of message---+ > > To unsubscribe send any message to > > > +---End of message---+ > To unsubscribe send any message to > --=20 *Dean Forss Technology Consultant, 3D Artist, Interactive Designer Direct 904.557.4189* * * Life is a wondrous adventure; embrace it, leave yesterday behind, take risks - not to escape today's life, but to prevent it from escaping you! --bcaec501620f0fb17204db49b13f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I hear you Jim on this one but alas, I have no choice. Ivory uses the damn = iLok and when my iLok key failed I had to buy another one. I got a hold of = Synthogy and told them they were crazy to go with iLok when they had the wo= rlds best piano and we have to rely on antiquated and worst yet - unreliabl= e licensing schemes. They said they were reviewing the options and gave me = a two week code while I waited for a new iLok to arrive. Painful...

Dean

On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 = at 1:42 PM, Jim Curtis <jpcurtis@me.com> wrote:
I do a fair amount of work in DAWs, and my policy is to not buy anything th= at requires iLok.

There is an extravaganza of audio plugs in existence. =A0None of them that = require iLok are must-haves. =A0Not even the exalted Altiverb or anything W= aves makes. =A0IMO.

iLok exists as a fat smelly low paid security guard with a bad attitude for= honest people to use the products they purchased honestly. =A0I don't = see why anybody would support such a model.

I buy the software I use, and to ask me to pay an additional fee and jump a= dditional hoops just to have access to it is offensive.

I was fine with the Ae dongles. =A0They never failed me. =A0I did have an A= vid dongle go bad once, but it was a PACE product. =A0No surprise there.



On Apr 26, 2013, at 12:26 PM, adam mercado wrote:

> ugh, iLok. Had to use them with Waves audio VSTs. Music software licen= sing is SO archaic. I just thank the heavens the AE dongle is a thing of th= e past, and wish the music software companies would catch up. It seems Wave= s finally are, as their V9 edition uses a soft licensing tool and has got r= id of iLok at last
>
>
>
> Adam Mercado
> Influxx Media Production
> Fullerton, CA
>
> Moving Images. For Business
> 714=B0928=B09896
> http://www.influx= x.com
> http://ww= w.twitter.com/influxx
> http:= //www.linkedin.com/in/influxx
> http:/= /influxx.tumblr.com/archive
> htt= p://www.flickr.com/photos/influxx
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 25, 2013, at 12:45 PM, Jim Curtis wrote:
>
>> Yes, due to Murphy's Law, it's likely to go haywire at the= worst possible moment.
>>
>> Have you heard this joke of a service that Pace / iLok offers call= ed "Zero Downtime?" =A0When you read the fine print, you realize = that zero doesn't mean what it used to. =A0It means something decidedly= non-zero. =A0I hate that company.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 25, 2013, at 2:36 PM, Robert W. Walker wrote:
>>
>>> This is the sort of thing that scares the crap out of me with = regard to
>>> Cloud.
>>>
>>> Robert W. Walker
>>> Los Angeles
>>>
>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: [AE] Creative Cloud Updaters don't work >>>> From: Jim Curtis <jp= curtis@me.com>
>>>> Date: Thu, April 25, 2013 2:58 pm
>>>> To: "After Effects Mail List" <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I can't help, but I can attest that the cleaner tool a= nd uninstall functions leave plenty of Adobe files on your system. =A0In th= e past, when I had just one CS suite installed, and ran uninstall and the c= leaner scripts, I'd do an EasyFind for "Adobe," and would loc= ate over 30 files with "adobe" in the name.
>>>>
>>>> And I would expect that authorization files don't have= "adobe" in the name, and likely invisible, to make them harder t= o crack.
>>>>
>>>> I think that's why a fresh OS install first is the onl= y way to do a clean install of the apps. =A0You also should get the thirty = day trial reset on a clean OS install. =A0That may at least allow you to fi= nish your work until you get your authorization issues sussed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 25, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Daniel Monro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey Benny,
>>>>>
>>>>> I went from C3 to CS6 on this machine, with iterations= of all builds. I had those same remnants that the adobe cleaner didn't= get, too. I gathered them up manually and burned them to a disc and then d= eleted all of them. Never gave me trouble and I've never needed that di= sc....
>>>>>
>>>>> For what its worth.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good luck,
>>>>> D
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On ThursdayApr 252013, at 11:50 AM, Benny Christensen = <bennychristensen@me.com&= gt; wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have bits of Adobe stuff in my Library going bac= k to CS3. Who starts every update with a virgin system and hard drive? I st= ill have working versions of CS5.5 apps because until recently I CS6 wouldn= 't run all of the plugins I have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would give the error codes, but I have already r= ead the dozens of related threads on the Adobe and Google search sites. Som= e of these errors go back to CS5 updates. None of them have provided a cure= beyond erasing everything and starting over, which still doesn't work.= That just results in a different error code. Plus, it takes forever to dow= nload and install all this stuff, and I have a dual T1 connection. FOREVER.=
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have tried this on a fairly new Macbook Pro and = my main MacPro computer. Same deal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look, I am no fan of the cloud because of exactly = this kind of BS. Adobe isn't doing me any favors. I don't owe them = anything. They sell (rent) me tools and I use them to make money. When thei= r delivery mechanism is as buggy as this, they deserve to answer for it. >>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been using Photoshop & After Effects = since the early 90's. If there was a better alternative I would use the= m and forget about Adobe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Extremely frustrated today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Benny Christensen
>>>>>> Producers Playhouse
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 25, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Steve Oakley wrote:<= br> >>>>>>
>>>>>>> you ran the clean up script set to scorched ea= rth mode ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> w/o getting into the particulars when I was do= ing a lot of installs / uninstalls on a machine and it got wonky, that alwa= ys worked. did you try running it twice ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> well if the clean up script isn't working.= ..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> try doing a finder search for =A0CS5, CS5.5 an= d CS6 and turn on ( hit plus sign ) System Files are included
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this will turn up any last stray bits of the i= nstalls, drag them off to the trash and empty.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a lot of those files are in System HD/library/= application support/Adobe =A0and users/your user name/library/application s= upport and user prefs folder. if library folders aren't visible, google= how to enable their visibility. its a single command line thing to copy an= d paste to enable them in 10.8
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> another question - where the apps install onto= the system drive ? or another location =A0? and do you possibly have a dua= l boot setup ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> S
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 25, 2013, at 10:15 AM, Benny Christense= n <bennychristensen@me.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Did that. Doesn't work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Benny Christensen
>>>>>>>> Producers Playhouse
>>>>>>>> Oklahoma City
>>>>>>>> 405-858-0700
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "To be is to do"--Socrates
>>>>>>>> "To do is to be"--Jean-Paul Sart= re
>>>>>>>> "Do be do be do"--Frank Sinatra<= br> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Apr 25, 2013, at 10:08 AM, Steve Oakley= wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> you can't just trash your apps. th= ey have to be properly uninstalled because the uninstall process updates lo= cal housekeeping files on the apps status and removes a lot of other files.=
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> google "adobe cleanup script"= ;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> go get it. run it and follow the in ap= p directions. =A0this removes not just the apps, but the housekeeping files= too. consider it the nukular deinstall. then reinstall apps.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> honestly with the local .DMG install f= ile its pretty fast and painless, especially with SSD :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> if you had CS6 installed from DVD / .D= MG on the machine and switched to cloud =A0... lets just say sometimes @!#t= happens and the clean up script should get you going.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the cloud installers do really work. >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> S
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 25, 2013, at 8:27 AM, Benny Chr= istensen <bennychristensen@me= .com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have all over this for the past = few (wasted) days since signing up for the Creative Cloud.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> None of the updaters work. NONE OF= THEM WORK!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are postings all over descri= bing the errors and the best Adobe can come up with is to trash all my apps= and start over. Are you kidding me?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I accidentally did that and the up= daters still don't work. THEY STILL DON"T WORK!!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If it is not ready for the real wo= rld they shouldn't be trying to force it down our throats.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm ranting because this is wa= sting way too much of my time. AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Benny Christensen
>>>>>>>>>> Producers Playhouse
>>>>>>>>>> Oklahoma City
>>>>>>>>>> +---End of message---+
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to= <ae-list-off@media-motio= n.tv>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> +---End of message---+
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to <= ;ae-list-off@media-motion.tv= >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> +---End of message---+
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv= >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +---End of message---+
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +---End of message---+
>>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> +---End of message---+
>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +---End of message---+
>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>
>>>
>>> +---End of message---+
>>> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>
>>
>>
>> +---End of message---+
>> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>
>
>
> +---End of message---+
> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>


+---End of message---+
To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>



--
Dean Forss
Technology Consultant, 3D Artist, Interactive De= signer
Direct 904.557.4189

Life is a wondrous adventure; embrace it= , leave yesterday behind, take risks - not to escape today's life, but = to prevent it from escaping you!

--bcaec501620f0fb17204db49b13f--