Return-Path: Received: from atl4mhob05.myregisteredsite.com ([209.17.115.43] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 5067317 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Sat, 11 May 2013 22:24:30 +0200 Received: from mail.hostingplatform.com ([10.30.71.210]) by atl4mhob05.myregisteredsite.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r4BKXMaf027563 for ; Sat, 11 May 2013 16:33:22 -0400 Received: (qmail 13813 invoked by uid 0); 11 May 2013 20:33:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.3?) (dsd@darkskydigital.com@24.73.238.28) by 0 with ESMTPA; 11 May 2013 20:33:21 -0000 From: Dann Stubbs Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-3--844822459 Subject: Re: [AE] CS is DEAD Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 16:33:21 -0400 In-Reply-To: To: "After Effects Mail List" References: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) --Apple-Mail-3--844822459 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii probably some of the issues were with 10.6.x how it killed photoshop CS3 = (for no reason) and i think some other apps stopped working - it was a = pretty big deal when 10.6. came out and some under the hood changes = killed some (granted older) apps, the OS9 layer went away etc. stuff = like that... when you have tools that work but suddenly don't - it makes = that little upgrade much more expensive. then with 10.7 etc how carbon(?) apps don't work anymore - like i have = some older apps that still work completely fine, web design stuff, my = version of filemaker etc that to upgrade a $29 OS means i have to spend = probably $1000 to upgrade or purchase new apps since these will not work = anymore while yes that is a normal thing to update etc - (like i finally needed = to update my filemaker for other reasons), i like the upgrades to me on = MY terms when "I" need to upgrade them - not because some $29 OSX = upgrade now forces me to spend $1000 to do the exact same thing i was = doing before i got the new icon design in my OS interface. and then a few months later some oversize app developer decides i need = to own their complete suite so i can now help pay for development costs = of a dozen apps that i won't or don't use... it's more expensive for me = and others, and like i said, many of us would prefer upgrades be on our = terms, when there is valid reason to upgrade or some VALID tool being = added that will benefit our workflow (not being able to tilt some faux = 3d box for example) basically a lot of us who have been with apple or adobe since the = beginning (i still remember $1500 single adobe fonts - probably not many = do) are just over the "geek" phase where we need to (more typically, = feel the need to) have the latest and greatest of everything just to get = a job done. my PS 1.0 box is still sitting on my shelf... always kept it = for nostalgia. think if every year they came out with some new nail that now you have = to go purchase a new hammer for, or all your tools etc... nobody would = accept that... but likewise it is pretty darn crazy how software = developers do that or get away with selling incomplete or buggy software = that they then give you the option of paying a large upgrade fee to get = a version of the tool you originally purchased (but may not have worked = properly) the old joke about cars, would you buy a car that just stopped in the = middle of the road and needed to be restarted for no reason? or if you = can't use the trunk, turn signals and one left back door until you pay = for the car 2.0 upgrade? (which won't be available for another 9 months = and may in fact break some other currently working parts of your car) basically software is becoming just another commodity, even the geeks = with the race to own the latest and greatest iphone so you can wave it = around the bar and feel "complete" in your life are starting to wane... = most "kids" nowadays are used to just having their software for free = anyway now, i wonder if adobe; once the cloud is implemented will start = selling ad space in the tool bar somewhere - since that is where most of = this Y generation is providing income for these new apps that are given = away for free (and the users pretty much expect them to be free) wonder how the new "pay wall" attempts for these old school news outlets = will turn out - everyone is used to their news being free... essentially = a pay wall around a news outlet web site is not much different then a = cloud subscription - you want in, you pay. or everyone just goes en = masse and finds something else to fill the need. probably the biggest attempt by the whole cloud move is to monetize the = warez people - which i would bet is huge and a substantial red number on = adobes income sheet. once you have to "phone home" and it most likely = records your IP, probably NIC and other personal info - it wont' be as = easy as those sharing sites with a serial number you can type in and use = the apps with for as long as you need. (though a great way to seed the = base out there and make your tools industry standards that everyone if = familiar with) but i hold out faith that moves like this will just spawn a new breed of = app, just like back when AE 1.0 first came out from that tiny little = developer team - it wasn't a massive software developer that gave birth = to it - after all... adobe and it's massive size has not created from = scratch any hits like those - the huge corporate culture really seems = against that... no different then microsoft and adobe now primarily = PURCHASE any new apps then re-brand them - it's not being "born" in = house. just like disney now purchases or farms out most of it's creative = (or purchases pixar) to get the content they need to sell to keep that = massive payroll paid. looking forward to seeing cloud evolve but mostly looking forward to = seeing what evolves next. dann ___________________________________________________________________ Dann Stubbs - dann@darkskydigital.com Dark Sky Digital - http://www.darkskydigital.com http://www.RenderKing.com Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm ___________________________________________________________________ On May 11, 2013, at 2:03 PM, Steve Oakley wrote: > I'm not sure what problems you are referring to. I've done = 10.6->10.7->10.8 on the same drive doing normal update installs across 4 = machines. all has been fine. rarely does an OS update ever hurt anything = and more often than not fixes things. that said, in case no one noticed, = apple has removed web sharing from 10.8 system prefs. all the bits are = still there, but requires manual config to start up and run.... or buy X = server for 29.99 or so.=20 >=20 > S >=20 > On May 11, 2013, at 2:01 AM, adam mercado wrote: >=20 >> You misunderstood. I was not blaming third party software. It was = clearly the OS that caused the ills. I was merely expressing my = reluctance to upgrade ANYTHING anymore unless its critical to do so. I = got my production machine behaving and have left it in that state for = several years. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On May 10, 2013, at 10:36 PM, Rich Young wrote: >>=20 >>> "Upgrading to Snow Leopard caused so many problems for me, nothing = worked." >>>=20 >>> Why risk a production machine for an unnecessary (mostly Mac) OS = update, and then blame 3rd-party software? >>>=20 >>> Nothing personal if I'm being insufferable, I've been burned in a = variety of ways by updates that zigged without concern for others. >>>=20 >>> And skipping back a bit, sure there are some concerns with CC = (http://img.ly/uGvQ), but there's nothing new with inevitable problems = opening files far between versions.=20 >>>=20 >>> Rich >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-3--844822459 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

and then a few = months later some oversize app developer decides i need to own their = complete suite so i can now help pay for development costs of a dozen = apps that i won't or don't use... it's more expensive for me and others, = and like i said, many of us would prefer upgrades be on our terms, when = there is valid reason to upgrade or some VALID tool being added that = will benefit our workflow (not being able to tilt some faux 3d box for = example)

basically a lot of us who have been = with apple or adobe since the beginning (i still remember $1500 single = adobe fonts - probably not many do) are just over the "geek" phase where = we need to (more typically, feel the need to) have the latest and = greatest of everything just to get a job done. my PS 1.0 box is still = sitting on my shelf... always kept it for = nostalgia.

think if every year they came out = with some new nail that now you have to go purchase a new hammer for, or = all your tools etc... nobody would accept that... but likewise it is = pretty darn crazy how software developers do that or get away with = selling incomplete or buggy software that they then give you the option = of paying a large upgrade fee to get a version of the tool you = originally purchased (but may not have worked = properly)

the old joke about cars, would you = buy a car that just stopped in the middle of the road and needed to be = restarted for no reason? or if you can't use the trunk, turn signals and = one left back door until you pay for the car 2.0 upgrade? (which won't = be available for another 9 months and may in fact break some other = currently working parts of your car)

basically = software is becoming just another commodity, even the geeks with the = race to own the latest and greatest iphone so you can wave it around the = bar and feel "complete" in your life are starting to wane... most "kids" = nowadays are used to just having their software for free anyway now, i = wonder if adobe; once the cloud is implemented will start selling ad = space in the tool bar somewhere - since that is where most of this Y = generation is providing income for these new apps that are given away = for free (and the users pretty much expect them to be = free)

wonder how the new "pay wall" attempts = for these old school news outlets will turn out - everyone is used to = their news being free... essentially a pay wall around a news outlet web = site is not much different then a cloud subscription - you want in, you = pay. or everyone just goes en masse and finds something else to fill the = need.

probably the biggest attempt by the whole = cloud move is to monetize the warez people - which i would bet is huge = and a substantial red number on adobes income sheet. once you have to = "phone home" and it most likely records your IP, probably NIC and other = personal info - it wont' be as easy as those sharing sites with a serial = number you can type in and use the apps with for as long as you need. = (though a great way to seed the base out there and make your tools = industry standards that everyone if familiar = with)

but i hold out faith that moves like this = will just spawn a new breed of app, just like back when AE 1.0 first = came out from that tiny little developer team - it wasn't a massive = software developer that gave birth to it - after all... adobe and it's = massive size has not created from scratch any hits like those - the huge = corporate culture really seems against that... no different then = microsoft and adobe now primarily PURCHASE any new apps then re-brand = them - it's not being "born" in house. just like disney now purchases or = farms out most of it's creative (or purchases pixar) to get the content = they need to sell to keep that massive payroll = paid.

looking forward to seeing cloud evolve = but mostly looking forward to seeing what evolves = next.

dann

Dann = Stubbs  -  dann@darkskydigital.com
<= div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">Dark Sky Digital -  http://www.darkskydigital.com

http://www.RenderKing.com &nbs= p;Value Priced C4D, VRAY Render Farm



On May 11, 2013, at 2:03 PM, Steve Oakley wrote:

I'm not sure what problems you = are referring to. I've done 10.6->10.7->10.8 on the same drive = doing normal update installs across 4 machines. all has been fine. = rarely does an OS update ever hurt anything and more often than not = fixes things. that said, in case no one noticed, apple has removed web = sharing from 10.8 system prefs. all the bits are still there, but = requires manual config to start up and run.... or buy X server for 29.99 = or so. 

S

On May 11, = 2013, at 2:01 AM, adam mercado <adam@influxx.com> = wrote:

You misunderstood. I was = not blaming third party software. It was clearly the OS that caused the = ills. I was merely expressing my reluctance to upgrade ANYTHING anymore = unless its critical to do so. I got my production machine behaving and = have left it in that state for several = years.


"Upgrading to Snow Leopard caused so many problems for me, = nothing worked."

Why risk a production machine for an unnecessary = (mostly Mac) OS update, and then blame 3rd-party = software?

Nothing personal if I'm being insufferable, I've been = burned in a variety of ways by updates that zigged without concern for = others.

And skipping back a bit, sure there are some concerns = with CC (http://img.ly/uGvQ), but = there's nothing new with inevitable problems opening files far between = versions. =

Rich



<= /body>= --Apple-Mail-3--844822459--