thank Patrick - I actually found yours in my research, and in truth I know how to do the effect I was mainly looking for the example Nathan S had, because I wanted to see how he handled spoked wheels and seeing his masterpiece I realize that his is probably way overkill - considering this is the examples we were given: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P8WcPjMMv8 and if you see the example at 1:00 in you can see they just cut the wheel out, not bothering to even deal with the interior. It's what I would call "cheating", but if it works and it's quick then who's to say - so I'm going to do a bunch of "cheating" and we'll see where that gets me ;-)