Return-Path: Received: from mail-pd0-f173.google.com ([209.85.192.173] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5095099 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 04 Jun 2013 13:21:33 +0200 Received: by mail-pd0-f173.google.com with SMTP id v10so106076pde.4 for ; Tue, 04 Jun 2013 04:31:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=DMWE3V1sYxDRElzwEFOzUN3KjtFwyJE4szURDuo2rrg=; b=PCag67JgeVoQQf5AyICg5XuUVUrP4tZid5vSaZm98LH/1XsyggC/7tc3Yivz9MmxBH aLOYAn4vm+b2HK91iDV4iWQnjD/ifC1uLONAPjHrBo2wv76Dix+OJ3kMg/MNkhvJOLyN vvvggrK9QoYSA2KNwg1Nw68YYrFxTUlPeYvHiemiHsP+eWVpJk+1TV+mKORF3FrgSOLB 52K28DMXaNWnokP3Ox3e55uY2Wj06v4WAzkQNC2e9KNbEQU+3dG641nUCp63Zivs9/7i wRXa6wWRWrqAY6OIG1Fb5oEXKTycQkYJ8dRBKUGlHKXl+h0zGTeV+/6A9fbWM0pc0M1m L8Lg== X-Received: by 10.66.21.38 with SMTP id s6mr28284072pae.103.1370345470768; Tue, 04 Jun 2013 04:31:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.66.122.165 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 04:30:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Robert Kjettrup Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 13:30:50 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] AE to QT Color Problem To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec51f99a701548704de526b24 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmgbelF+iYssG4zDY51t7yDkF990Loc5arFJVH2gTbAjYs/ZpZ7/FLanr2ggQTWa6UHeK6Y --bcaec51f99a701548704de526b24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Are you guys seriously using the h264 encoder in QT? it is really dated. i must admit i have not used it in years and don't know if it has been updated. But everytime a client asks for an QT h264 i just encode an MP4 and there is no problem for them to play it back. And telling them to use VLC to view it too if they are a bit computer savy, and there is no gamma issues. QT is really a love/hate application, it is really useful in many cases, like adding audio to videos without reencoding, and we use QT wraps for all our masters in DNxHD or Prores and most applications read them correct, even if the QT player shows a small wrong display gamma. But it really is annoying that this h264 seriously wrong display gamma bug has been there for all these years, what 7+ years, more? and nothing have been done to fix it. All the workarounds are really just workarounds for something that just should work probably without any modification. So much for Apple's mantra, "it just works!"... more like "we don't care!" - Robert 2013/6/4 Jayse Hansen > I've found a way that works for me at least. It's the single most annoyin= g > thing about quicktime. I've spent years dealing with that crap LoL. I've > done all of the above - many times in many different ways (even many > variations of x264) and nothing works reliably. Problem is you don't know > if your clients are using QT7, 10 - or whatever - and having them change > their QT is also an unknown variable I'd rather not deal with. > > But with *way* too much trial and error I've discovered something that > works, at last - at least for me in my current setup. And it's so simple: > > In AE project settings, enable color management, set as sRGB, and check > the checkbox for match legacy. > > Bam - now you can render your QT's h264's alongside jpg sequences or > whatever and they will all match between qt7, qt10, sequences etc. to abo= ut > 99% - which is sooooo much better than the nasty 60% gamma/sat shift you > usually experience. > > I guess qt is expecting some srgb color management? I decided to try it > after reading Ken Rockwell's article on photography color management ( > http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/color-management/is-for-wimps.htm) and > how just making everything sRGB is a reliable way to work on stills becau= se > most everything assumes sRGB. I thought - well QT is pretty consumer-base= d, > decided to try it for video and voila... who would have known. > > Hope it works for you. > > // jayse > > > -------------------------------- > Jayse Hansen > Fake UI design for Cinema > www.jayse.tv > jayse@jayse.tv > 702-321-3449 > > > > On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:45 PM, David Torno wrote: > >> No pro uses Quicktime exporting for anything else but basic reviewing >> >> I'd be careful saying that. Plenty of pros use QT for more than just >> previewing. ;) >> Final delivery in some cases. The codec is what makes the difference. >> >> >> David Torno >> Visual Effects Artist & Supervisor >> http://www.ghosttownmedia.com >> O: 213.739.2290 >> C: 818.391.6060 >> --------------------- >> http://www.sydefxink.com >> http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com >> http://mactex.blogspot.com >> >> "The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh" >> -Charles Field >> >> On Jun 3, 2013, at 11:29 PM, Olivier Burri wrote: >> >> Use Image Sequence instead. >> It's a known problem. >> No pro uses Quicktime exporting for anything else but basic reviewing >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 8:08 AM, David Torno wrote: >> >>> Ya, I use to use x264. It was amazing, but it always seemed to stop >>> working after a few weeks or so. It would just cause a crash for any ap= p >>> using the codec. When it was working, it was great and did replicate co= lor >>> very accurately. Unfortunately it was too unstable for me, so I had to >>> ditch it. >>> >>> >>> David Torno >>> Visual Effects Artist & Supervisor >>> http://www.ghosttownmedia.com >>> O: 213.739.2290 >>> C: 818.391.6060 >>> --------------------- >>> http://www.sydefxink.com >>> http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com >>> http://mactex.blogspot.com >>> >>> "The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh" >>> -Charles Field >>> >>> On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:06 PM, Chris Meyer wrote: >>> >>> That work around doesn't always work. I far prefer to use the x264 >>> variant of the h.264 codec. >>> >>> Background: >>> http://provideocoalition.com/cmg_keyframes/story/brightness_issues_with= _h264_quicktime_movies >>> >>> I'll email you the codec separately. Install in Library > QuickTime. >>> >>> - Chris >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________________ >>> Chris Meyer | Crish Design >>> http://www.crishdesign.com >>> >>> >>> On Jun 3, 2013, at 7:14 PM, Lachlan Westfall >>> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks.... Trying this now... >>> >>> -L >>> >>> On 6/3/13 5:53 PM, "David Torno" wrote: >>> >>> H.264 rendered from AE or exported from QT Pro will always come out >>> washed out and pale in the saturation. In QT Pro you need to open "Show >>> Movie Properties" under window, select "Video Track" > "Visual Setting= s" >>> and click the "Transparency" dropdown and choose "Composition". This wi= ll >>> bring the video gamma very closely back to the original source. >>> >>> David Torno >>> Visual Effects Artist & Supervisor >>> http://www.ghosttownmedia.com >>> O: 213.739.2290 >>> C: 818.391.6060 >>> --------------------- >>> http://www.sydefxink.com >>> http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com >>> http://mactex.blogspot.com >>> >>> "The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh" >>> -Charles Field >>> >>> On Jun 3, 2013, at 5:42 PM, Lachlan Westfall >>> wrote: >>> >>> Re: [AE] AE to QT Color Problem I=92m rendering out lossless, then >>> converting to H.264 via QT. The problem can be seen even in the lossles= s >>> version. >>> >>> I also just found something in the AE preferences about matching legacy >>> QT gamma adjustments. I wonder if this has something to do with it? >>> >>> -L >>> >>> On 6/3/13 5:37 PM, "scott.aelist" wrote: >>> >>> What codec are you using? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > --bcaec51f99a701548704de526b24 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Are you guys seriously using the h264 encoder in QT? it is= really dated.=A0
i must admit i have not used it in years and do= n't know if it has been updated. But everytime a client asks for an QT = h264 i just encode an MP4 and there is no problem for them to play it back.= And telling them to use VLC to view it too if they are a bit computer savy= , and there is no gamma issues.

QT is really a love/hate application, it is= really useful in many cases, like adding audio to videos without reencodin= g, and we use QT wraps for all our masters in DNxHD or Prores and most appl= ications read them correct, even if the QT player shows a small wrong displ= ay gamma. But it really is annoying that this h264 seriously wrong display = gamma bug has been there for all these years, what 7+ years, more? and noth= ing have been done to fix it. All the workarounds are really just workaroun= ds for something that just should work probably without any modification.
So much for Apple's mantra, "it just works!"... mo= re like "we don't care!"

- Robert=A0



2013/6/4 Jayse Hansen = <mographer@gmai= l.com>
I've found a way that works for me at least. It's = the single most annoying thing about quicktime. I've spent years dealin= g with that crap LoL. I've done all of the above - many times in many d= ifferent ways (even many variations of x264) and nothing works reliably. Pr= oblem is you don't know if your clients are using QT7, 10 - or whatever= - and having them change their QT is also an unknown variable I'd rath= er not deal with.=A0

But with way too much trial and error=A0I've disc= overed=A0something that works, at last - at least for me in my current setu= p. And it's so simple:

In AE project settings,= enable color management, set as sRGB, and check the checkbox for match leg= acy.=A0

Bam - now you can render your QT's h264's along= side jpg sequences or whatever and they will all match between qt7, qt10, s= equences etc. to about 99% - which is sooooo much better than the nasty 60%= gamma/sat shift you usually experience.=A0

I guess qt is expecting some srgb color management? I d= ecided to try it after reading Ken Rockwell's article on photography co= lor management (http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/color-= management/is-for-wimps.htm) and how just making everything sRGB is a r= eliable way to work on stills because most everything assumes sRGB. I thoug= ht - well QT is pretty consumer-based, decided to try it for video and voil= a... who would have known.=A0

Hope it works for you.=A0

// j= ayse


=
--------------------------------
Jayse Hansen
Fake UI design for Cinema
jayse@jayse.tv



On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:45 PM, David T= orno <torno@sydefxink.com> wrote:
No p= ro uses Quicktime exporting for anything else but basic reviewing
I'd be careful saying that. Plenty of pros use QT for mo= re than just previewing. ;)
Final delivery in some cases. The codec is what makes the difference.<= /div>


David Torno
Visual Effects Artist &= amp; Supervisor
--------------------= -
http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com

"The most useless day is that in which we do= not laugh"
-Charles Field
<= br>On Jun 3, 2013, at 11:29 PM, Olivier Burri <ogburri@gmail.com> wrote:

Use Image Sequenc= e instead.
It's a known problem.
No pro uses Quicktime ex= porting for anything else but basic reviewing


On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 8:08 AM, David Torno <torno@sydefxink.com&g= t; wrote:
Ya, I use to use x264. It was amazing, but it always= seemed to stop working after a few weeks or so. It would just cause a cras= h for any app using the codec. When it was working, it was great and did re= plicate color very accurately. Unfortunately it was too unstable for me, so= I had to ditch it.


David Torno
Visual Effects Artist & = Supervisor
---------------------
http://www.sydefxink.comhttp://a= eioweyou.blogspot.com

"The most useless day is tha= t in which we do not laugh"
-Charles Field

On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:06 PM, Chris Meyer <chris@crishdesign.com&g= t; wrote:

That work around does= n't always work. I far prefer to use the x264 variant of the h.264 code= c.

Background: http://provideocoalition.com/cmg_keyframes/story/brightness_issues_with_h2= 64_quicktime_movies

I'll email you the cod= ec separately. Install in Library > QuickTime.

=A0- Chr= is


________________________________________________
Chris Meyer | Crish Des= ign
http://www.= crishdesign.com

On Jun 3, 2013, at 7:14 PM, Lachlan Westfall <lachlan@quietearth.net&= gt; wrote:

Thanks.... Trying this now...

-L

On 6/3/13 5:53 PM, "David Torno" <torno@sydefxink.com> wrote:

H.264 rendered from AE or exported fr= om QT Pro will always come out washed out and pale in the saturation. In QT= Pro you need to open "Show Movie Properties" under window, selec= t =A0"Video Track" > "Visual Settings" and click the= "Transparency" dropdown and choose "Composition". This= will bring the video gamma very closely back to the original source.

David Torno
Visual Effects Artist & Supervisor
http://www.gho= sttownmedia.com
O: 21= 3.739.2290
C: 81= 8.391.6060
---------------------
http://www.sydefxin= k.com
http://aeiowey= ou.blogspot.com
http://mactex.blo= gspot.com

"The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh"
-Charles Field

On Jun 3, 2013, at 5:42 PM, Lachlan Westfall <lachlan@quietearth.net> wrote:

Re: [AE] AE to QT Color Problem I=92m= rendering out lossless, then converting to H.264 via QT. The problem can b= e seen even in the lossless version.

I also just found something in the AE preferences about matching legacy QT = gamma adjustments. I wonder if this has something to do with it?

-L

On 6/3/13 5:37 PM, "scott.aelist" <scott.aelist@gmail.com> wrote:

What codec are you using?




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