Return-Path: Received: from mail-ee0-f47.google.com ([74.125.83.47] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5095431 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 04 Jun 2013 17:40:50 +0200 Received: by mail-ee0-f47.google.com with SMTP id e49so122483eek.6 for ; Tue, 04 Jun 2013 08:50:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=e4pJBE5YN/svkOmLAD7p13GCX8SB8X2E/+ezdsdUfjE=; b=CtLtnOXII2GCqXzI/4VP+Py9fMmF79LgpKsiIC9F9GgR2ka7r1izp4XyVdDplP4lp8 AJc2qZXwB7HAAKpYroNOWSXuHOQyUmTEsiWQ4FF/0Nb5E9fPMlq6tuM1jNJzRYTWFn/o CUXyyBXmPIt9uNBl6hOvOr6zvAfHc+X6aUBCGd62L0Ik9ZK48TpoJhz3QMkvYeVIkiHQ 79YIhOuG97ivIilHDX8eta1J9vawyhT0KIAsw0EyUyIZxJamAQpvpa03NiUHJH4xkMaR oCnO5wevKisH+2REaxWtlHJHdXrwVMh7bCQElt9Ms5MzP72GJYh0wBRZehVoDMsZzw6y Bygw== X-Received: by 10.14.176.134 with SMTP id b6mr26742877eem.119.1370361030265; Tue, 04 Jun 2013 08:50:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.129.7 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Jun 2013 08:50:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Jayse Hansen Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 08:50:10 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] AE to QT Color Problem To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b621e646d6f5804de560a4c --047d7b621e646d6f5804de560a4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was using ProRes with the same issue - but haven't found anything yet to beat h264 for size/qual/playability. And you'd be surprised how many 'pros' just hit spacebar to view your files. ;-P I'm talking major VFX house pros, supervisors, art directors etc. // jayse -------------------------------- Jayse Hansen Fake UI design for Cinema www.jayse.tv jayse@jayse.tv 702-321-3449 On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 4:30 AM, Robert Kjettrup wrote= : > Are you guys seriously using the h264 encoder in QT? it is really dated. > i must admit i have not used it in years and don't know if it has been > updated. But everytime a client asks for an QT h264 i just encode an MP4 > and there is no problem for them to play it back. And telling them to use > VLC to view it too if they are a bit computer savy, and there is no gamma > issues. > > QT is really a love/hate application, it is really useful in many cases, > like adding audio to videos without reencoding, and we use QT wraps for a= ll > our masters in DNxHD or Prores and most applications read them correct, > even if the QT player shows a small wrong display gamma. But it really is > annoying that this h264 seriously wrong display gamma bug has been there > for all these years, what 7+ years, more? and nothing have been done to f= ix > it. All the workarounds are really just workarounds for something that ju= st > should work probably without any modification. > So much for Apple's mantra, "it just works!"... more like "we don't care!= " > > - Robert > > > > 2013/6/4 Jayse Hansen > >> I've found a way that works for me at least. It's the single most >> annoying thing about quicktime. I've spent years dealing with that crap >> LoL. I've done all of the above - many times in many different ways (eve= n >> many variations of x264) and nothing works reliably. Problem is you don'= t >> know if your clients are using QT7, 10 - or whatever - and having them >> change their QT is also an unknown variable I'd rather not deal with. >> >> But with *way* too much trial and error I've discovered something that >> works, at last - at least for me in my current setup. And it's so simple= : >> >> In AE project settings, enable color management, set as sRGB, and check >> the checkbox for match legacy. >> >> Bam - now you can render your QT's h264's alongside jpg sequences or >> whatever and they will all match between qt7, qt10, sequences etc. to ab= out >> 99% - which is sooooo much better than the nasty 60% gamma/sat shift you >> usually experience. >> >> I guess qt is expecting some srgb color management? I decided to try it >> after reading Ken Rockwell's article on photography color management ( >> http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/color-management/is-for-wimps.htm) and >> how just making everything sRGB is a reliable way to work on stills beca= use >> most everything assumes sRGB. I thought - well QT is pretty consumer-bas= ed, >> decided to try it for video and voila... who would have known. >> >> Hope it works for you. >> >> // jayse >> >> >> -------------------------------- >> Jayse Hansen >> Fake UI design for Cinema >> www.jayse.tv >> jayse@jayse.tv >> 702-321-3449 >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:45 PM, David Torno wrote= : >> >>> No pro uses Quicktime exporting for anything else but basic reviewing >>> >>> I'd be careful saying that. Plenty of pros use QT for more than just >>> previewing. ;) >>> Final delivery in some cases. The codec is what makes the difference. >>> >>> >>> David Torno >>> Visual Effects Artist & Supervisor >>> http://www.ghosttownmedia.com >>> O: 213.739.2290 >>> C: 818.391.6060 >>> --------------------- >>> http://www.sydefxink.com >>> http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com >>> http://mactex.blogspot.com >>> >>> "The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh" >>> -Charles Field >>> >>> On Jun 3, 2013, at 11:29 PM, Olivier Burri wrote: >>> >>> Use Image Sequence instead. >>> It's a known problem. >>> No pro uses Quicktime exporting for anything else but basic reviewing >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 8:08 AM, David Torno wrote= : >>> >>>> Ya, I use to use x264. It was amazing, but it always seemed to stop >>>> working after a few weeks or so. It would just cause a crash for any a= pp >>>> using the codec. When it was working, it was great and did replicate c= olor >>>> very accurately. Unfortunately it was too unstable for me, so I had to >>>> ditch it. >>>> >>>> >>>> David Torno >>>> Visual Effects Artist & Supervisor >>>> http://www.ghosttownmedia.com >>>> O: 213.739.2290 >>>> C: 818.391.6060 >>>> --------------------- >>>> http://www.sydefxink.com >>>> http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com >>>> http://mactex.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> "The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh" >>>> -Charles Field >>>> >>>> On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:06 PM, Chris Meyer wrote= : >>>> >>>> That work around doesn't always work. I far prefer to use the x264 >>>> variant of the h.264 codec. >>>> >>>> Background: >>>> http://provideocoalition.com/cmg_keyframes/story/brightness_issues_wit= h_h264_quicktime_movies >>>> >>>> I'll email you the codec separately. Install in Library > QuickTime. >>>> >>>> - Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________________________ >>>> Chris Meyer | Crish Design >>>> http://www.crishdesign.com >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 3, 2013, at 7:14 PM, Lachlan Westfall >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks.... Trying this now... >>>> >>>> -L >>>> >>>> On 6/3/13 5:53 PM, "David Torno" wrote: >>>> >>>> H.264 rendered from AE or exported from QT Pro will always come out >>>> washed out and pale in the saturation. In QT Pro you need to open "Sho= w >>>> Movie Properties" under window, select "Video Track" > "Visual Settin= gs" >>>> and click the "Transparency" dropdown and choose "Composition". This w= ill >>>> bring the video gamma very closely back to the original source. >>>> >>>> David Torno >>>> Visual Effects Artist & Supervisor >>>> http://www.ghosttownmedia.com >>>> O: 213.739.2290 >>>> C: 818.391.6060 >>>> --------------------- >>>> http://www.sydefxink.com >>>> http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com >>>> http://mactex.blogspot.com >>>> >>>> "The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh" >>>> -Charles Field >>>> >>>> On Jun 3, 2013, at 5:42 PM, Lachlan Westfall >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Re: [AE] AE to QT Color Problem I=92m rendering out lossless, then >>>> converting to H.264 via QT. The problem can be seen even in the lossle= ss >>>> version. >>>> >>>> I also just found something in the AE preferences about matching legac= y >>>> QT gamma adjustments. I wonder if this has something to do with it? >>>> >>>> -L >>>> >>>> On 6/3/13 5:37 PM, "scott.aelist" wrote: >>>> >>>> What codec are you using? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > --047d7b621e646d6f5804de560a4c Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I was using ProRes with the same issue - but haven't f= ound anything yet to beat h264 for size/qual/playability.=A0

=
And you'd be surprised how many 'pros' just hit spacebar t= o view your files. ;-P

I'm talking major VFX house pros, supervisors, art direc= tors etc. =A0

// jayse


----= ----------------------------
Jayse Hansen
= Fake UI design for Cinema

=


On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 4:30 AM, Robert K= jettrup <robert@stvmayday.dk> wrote:
Are you guys seriously using the h264 encoder in QT? it is= really dated.=A0
i must admit i have not used it in years and don'= t know if it has been updated. But everytime a client asks for an QT h264 i= just encode an MP4 and there is no problem for them to play it back. And t= elling them to use VLC to view it too if they are a bit computer savy, and = there is no gamma issues.

QT is really a love/hate application, it is really usef= ul in many cases, like adding audio to videos without reencoding, and we us= e QT wraps for all our masters in DNxHD or Prores and most applications rea= d them correct, even if the QT player shows a small wrong display gamma. Bu= t it really is annoying that this h264 seriously wrong display gamma bug ha= s been there for all these years, what 7+ years, more? and nothing have bee= n done to fix it. All the workarounds are really just workarounds for somet= hing that just should work probably without any modification.
So much for Apple's mantra, "it just works!"... more lik= e "we don't care!"
- Robert=A0



2013/6/4 Jayse Hansen = <mographer@gmai= l.com>
I've found a way that works for me at least. It's = the single most annoying thing about quicktime. I've spent years dealin= g with that crap LoL. I've done all of the above - many times in many d= ifferent ways (even many variations of x264) and nothing works reliably. Pr= oblem is you don't know if your clients are using QT7, 10 - or whatever= - and having them change their QT is also an unknown variable I'd rath= er not deal with.=A0

But with way too much trial and error=A0I've disc= overed=A0something that works, at last - at least for me in my current setu= p. And it's so simple:

In AE project settings,= enable color management, set as sRGB, and check the checkbox for match leg= acy.=A0

Bam - now you can render your QT's h264's along= side jpg sequences or whatever and they will all match between qt7, qt10, s= equences etc. to about 99% - which is sooooo much better than the nasty 60%= gamma/sat shift you usually experience.=A0

I guess qt is expecting some srgb color management? I d= ecided to try it after reading Ken Rockwell's article on photography co= lor management (http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/color-= management/is-for-wimps.htm) and how just making everything sRGB is a r= eliable way to work on stills because most everything assumes sRGB. I thoug= ht - well QT is pretty consumer-based, decided to try it for video and voil= a... who would have known.=A0

Hope it works for you.=A0

// j= ayse


=
--------------------------------
Jayse Hansen
Fake UI design for Cinema
jayse@jayse.tv



On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:45 PM, David T= orno <torno@sydefxink.com> wrote:
No p= ro uses Quicktime exporting for anything else but basic reviewing
I'd be careful saying that. Plenty of pros use QT for mo= re than just previewing. ;)
Final delivery in some cases. The codec is what makes the difference.<= /div>


David Torno
Visual Effects Artist &= amp; Supervisor
--------------------= -
http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com

"The most useless day is that in which we do= not laugh"
-Charles Field
<= br>On Jun 3, 2013, at 11:29 PM, Olivier Burri <ogburri@gmail.com> wrote:

Use Image Sequenc= e instead.
It's a known problem.
No pro uses Quicktime ex= porting for anything else but basic reviewing


On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 8:08 AM, David Torno <torno@sydefxink.com&g= t; wrote:
Ya, I use to use x264. It was amazing, but it always= seemed to stop working after a few weeks or so. It would just cause a cras= h for any app using the codec. When it was working, it was great and did re= plicate color very accurately. Unfortunately it was too unstable for me, so= I had to ditch it.


David Torno
Visual Effects Artist & = Supervisor
---------------------
http://www.sydefxink.comhttp://a= eioweyou.blogspot.com

"The most useless day is tha= t in which we do not laugh"
-Charles Field

On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:06 PM, Chris Meyer <chris@crishdesign.com&g= t; wrote:

That work around does= n't always work. I far prefer to use the x264 variant of the h.264 code= c.

Background: http://provideocoalition.com/cmg_keyframes/story/brightness_issues_with_h2= 64_quicktime_movies

I'll email you the cod= ec separately. Install in Library > QuickTime.

=A0- Chr= is


________________________________________________
Chris Meyer | Crish Des= ign
http://www.= crishdesign.com

On Jun 3, 2013, at 7:14 PM, Lachlan Westfall <lachlan@quietearth.net&= gt; wrote:

Thanks.... Trying this now...

-L

On 6/3/13 5:53 PM, "David Torno" <torno@sydefxink.com> wrote:

H.264 rendered from AE or exported fr= om QT Pro will always come out washed out and pale in the saturation. In QT= Pro you need to open "Show Movie Properties" under window, selec= t =A0"Video Track" > "Visual Settings" and click the= "Transparency" dropdown and choose "Composition". This= will bring the video gamma very closely back to the original source.

David Torno
Visual Effects Artist & Supervisor
http://www.gho= sttownmedia.com
O: 21= 3.739.2290
C: 81= 8.391.6060
---------------------
http://www.sydefxin= k.com
http://aeiowey= ou.blogspot.com
http://mactex.blo= gspot.com

"The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh"
-Charles Field

On Jun 3, 2013, at 5:42 PM, Lachlan Westfall <lachlan@quietearth.net> wrote:

Re: [AE] AE to QT Color Problem I=92m= rendering out lossless, then converting to H.264 via QT. The problem can b= e seen even in the lossless version.

I also just found something in the AE preferences about matching legacy QT = gamma adjustments. I wonder if this has something to do with it?

-L

On 6/3/13 5:37 PM, "scott.aelist" <scott.aelist@gmail.com> wrote:

What codec are you using?





--047d7b621e646d6f5804de560a4c--