Return-Path: Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([71.74.56.122] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 5095495 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 04 Jun 2013 18:23:43 +0200 Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=fZsvOjsF c=1 sm=0 a=kxnugH6Wy5bl5vZ3xW/I5w==:17 a=DQZvOVXRM6cA:10 a=Zq2FpVYgtBoA:10 a=bjq9PpNSDe0A:10 a=LaNeyJ9lAAAA:8 a=E-9VcJv7ekMA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=8Oun0-pJAAAA:8 a=p0wEY4mMAAAA:8 a=NfZTnViSAAAA:8 a=ZlIs7xrhAAAA:8 a=7EQUEeH0AAAA:8 a=C_KcCId8AAAA:8 a=3uk2aAWUAAAA:8 a=wkeOB0n8AAAA:8 a=TIAOWs2OhusGKTJLFpIA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=EqWWMF9jYgoA:10 a=HqAsHxL-TQ4A:10 a=XWT8u3UPgmwA:10 a=IdTQQeB88Z4A:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=TcLyf8T1yfwA:10 a=G8hwkzEB35gA:10 a=L67R7YQVgx4A:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=mKBxc-hmr1_M4IEmE-AA:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=bzZ5MqCpzDcA:10 a=0TQ4etErN9wA:10 a=tv8P9toP7WUA:10 a=WGfxFHG5R68A:10 a=Ww_aK7BM3ZAA:10 a=f3U_vA00WUdaVCm-:21 a=kxnugH6Wy5bl5vZ3xW/I5w==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Authenticated-User: X-Originating-IP: 24.24.234.97 Received: from [24.24.234.97] ([24.24.234.97:41737] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by hrndva-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id D1/B5-10569-1D61EA15; Tue, 04 Jun 2013 16:33:22 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.4.0.080122 Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2013 09:33:20 -0700 Subject: Re: [AE] AE to QT Color Problem From: Lachlan Westfall To: After Effects Mail List Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [AE] AE to QT Color Problem Thread-Index: Ac5hQTknd2xf9M00EeKViQAfWzIHkA== In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3453183202_122975" > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3453183202_122975 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Jayse, By chance this was precisely what I did and it seems to have been at least part of the solution. Thanks! -Lachlan On 6/4/13 3:39 AM, "Jayse Hansen" wrote: > I've found a way that works for me at least. It's the single most annoyin= g > thing about quicktime. I've spent years dealing with that crap LoL. I've = done > all of the above - many times in many different ways (even many variation= s of > x264) and nothing works reliably. Problem is you don't know if your clien= ts > are using QT7, 10 - or whatever - and having them change their QT is also= an > unknown variable I'd rather not deal with.=A0 >=20 > But with way too much trial and error=A0I've discovered=A0something that work= s, at > last - at least for me in my current setup. And it's so simple: >=20 > In AE project settings, enable color management, set as sRGB, and check t= he > checkbox for match legacy.=A0 >=20 > Bam - now you can render your QT's h264's alongside jpg sequences or what= ever > and they will all match between qt7, qt10, sequences etc. to about 99% - = which > is sooooo much better than the nasty 60% gamma/sat shift you usually > experience.=A0 >=20 > I guess qt is expecting some srgb color management? I decided to try it a= fter > reading Ken Rockwell's article on photography color management > (http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/color-management/is-for-wimps.htm) and h= ow > just making everything sRGB is a reliable way to work on stills because m= ost > everything assumes sRGB. I thought - well QT is pretty consumer-based, de= cided > to try it for video and voila... who would have known.=A0 >=20 > Hope it works for you.=A0 >=20 > // jayse >=20 >=20 > -------------------------------- > Jayse Hansen > Fake UI design for Cinema > www.jayse.tv > jayse@jayse.tv > 702-321-3449 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:45 PM, David Torno wrote: >>> No pro uses Quicktime exporting for anything else but basic reviewing >> I'd be careful saying that. Plenty of pros use QT for more than just >> previewing. ;) >> Final delivery in some cases. The codec is what makes the difference. >>=20 >>=20 >> David Torno >> Visual Effects Artist & Supervisor >> http://www.ghosttownmedia.com >> O: 213.739.2290 >> C: 818.391.6060 >> --------------------- >> http://www.sydefxink.com >> http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com >> http://mactex.blogspot.com >>=20 >> "The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh" >> -Charles Field >>=20 >> On Jun 3, 2013, at 11:29 PM, Olivier Burri wrote: >>=20 >>> Use Image Sequence instead. >>> It's a known problem. >>> No pro uses Quicktime exporting for anything else but basic reviewing >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 8:08 AM, David Torno wrote= : >>>> Ya, I use to use x264. It was amazing, but it always seemed to stop wo= rking >>>> after a few weeks or so. It would just cause a crash for any app using= the >>>> codec. When it was working, it was great and did replicate color very >>>> accurately. Unfortunately it was too unstable for me, so I had to ditc= h it. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> David Torno >>>> Visual Effects Artist & Supervisor >>>> http://www.ghosttownmedia.com >>>> O: 213.739.2290 >>>> C: 818.391.6060 >>>> --------------------- >>>> http://www.sydefxink.com >>>> http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com >>>> http://mactex.blogspot.com >>>>=20 >>>> "The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh" >>>> -Charles Field >>>>=20 >>>> On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:06 PM, Chris Meyer wrote= : >>>>=20 >>>>> That work around doesn't always work. I far prefer to use the x264 va= riant >>>>> of the h.264 codec. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Background:=20 >>>>> http://provideocoalition.com/cmg_keyframes/story/brightness_issues_wi= th_h2 >>>>> 64_quicktime_movies >>>>>=20 >>>>> I'll email you the codec separately. Install in Library > QuickTime. >>>>>=20 >>>>> =A0- Chris >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> ________________________________________________ >>>>> Chris Meyer | Crish Design >>>>> http://www.crishdesign.com >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Jun 3, 2013, at 7:14 PM, Lachlan Westfall >>>>> wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Thanks.... Trying this now... >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> -L >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On 6/3/13 5:53 PM, "David Torno" wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> H.264 rendered from AE or exported from QT Pro will always come out >>>>>>> washed out and pale in the saturation. In QT Pro you need to open "= Show >>>>>>> Movie Properties" under window, select =A0"Video Track" > "Visual >>>>>>> Settings" and click the "Transparency" dropdown and choose >>>>>>> "Composition". This will bring the video gamma very closely back to= the >>>>>>> original source. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> David Torno >>>>>>> Visual Effects Artist & Supervisor >>>>>>> http://www.ghosttownmedia.com >>>>>>> O: 213.739.2290 >>>>>>> C: 818.391.6060 >>>>>>> --------------------- >>>>>>> http://www.sydefxink.com >>>>>>> http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com >>>>>>> http://mactex.blogspot.com >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> "The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh" >>>>>>> -Charles Field >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On Jun 3, 2013, at 5:42 PM, Lachlan Westfall >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>=20 Re: [AE] AE to QT Color Problem I=B9m rendering out lossless, then converting to H.264 via QT. The problem can be seen even in the lossless version. I also just found something in the AE preferences about matching legacy QT gamma adjustments. I wonder if this has something to do with it? -L On 6/3/13 5:37 PM, "scott.aelist" wrote: What codec are you using? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>=20 >=20 >=20 --B_3453183202_122975 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: [AE] AE to QT Color Problem Jayse,

By chance this was precisely what I did and it seems to have been at least = part of the solution.

Thanks!

-Lachlan

On 6/4/13 3:39 AM, "Jayse Hansen" <mographer@gmail.com> wro= te:

I've found a way that works for me at le= ast. It's the single most annoying thing about quicktime. I've spent years d= ealing with that crap LoL. I've done all of the above - many times in many d= ifferent ways (even many variations of x264) and nothing works reliably. Pro= blem is you don't know if your clients are using QT7, 10 - or whatever - and= having them change their QT is also an unknown variable I'd rather not deal= with.=A0

But with way too much trial and error=A0I've discovered=A0something that= works, at last - at least for me in my current setup. And it's so simple:
In AE project settings, enable color management, set as sRGB, and check the= checkbox for match legacy.=A0

Bam - now you can render your QT's h264's alongside jpg sequences or whatev= er and they will all match between qt7, qt10, sequences etc. to about 99% - = which is sooooo much better than the nasty 60% gamma/sat shift you usually e= xperience.=A0

I guess qt is expecting some srgb color management? I decided to try it aft= er reading Ken Rockwell's article on photography color management (http://w= ww.kenrockwell.com/tech/color-management/is-for-wimps.htm) and how just = making everything sRGB is a reliable way to work on stills because most ever= ything assumes sRGB. I thought - well QT is pretty consumer-based, decided t= o try it for video and voila... who would have known.=A0

Hope it works for you.=A0

// jayse


--------------------------------
Jayse Hansen
Fake UI design for Cinema
www.jayse.tv <http://www.jayse.tv> =
jayse@jayse.tv
702-321-3449



On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:45 PM, David Torno <torno@sydefxink.com> wr= ote:
No pro uses Quicktime export= ing for anything else but basic reviewing
I'd be careful saying that. Plenty of p= ros use QT for more than just previewing. ;)
Final delivery in some cases. The codec is what makes the difference.


David Torno
Visual Effects Artist & Supervisor
http://www.ghosttownmedia.com O: 213.739.2290 <tel:213.739.2290>
C: 818.391.6060 <tel:818.391.6060>
---------------------
http://www.sydefxink.com
http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com http://mactex.blogspot.com

"The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh"
-Charles Field

On Jun 3, 2013, at 11:29 PM, Olivier Burri <ogburri@gmail.com> wrote:=

Use Image Sequence instead.
It's a known problem.
No pro uses Quicktime exporting for anything else but basic reviewing


On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 8:08 AM, David Torno <torno@sydefxink.com> wro= te:
Ya, I use to use x264. It was amazing, b= ut it always seemed to stop working after a few weeks or so. It would just c= ause a crash for any app using the codec. When it was working, it was great = and did replicate color very accurately. Unfortunately it was too unstable f= or me, so I had to ditch it.


David Torno
Visual Effects Artist & Supervisor
http://www.ghosttownmedia.com O: 213.739.2290 <tel:213.739.2290>
C: 818.391.6060 <tel:818.391.6060>
---------------------
http://www.sydefxink.com
http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com http://mactex.blogspot.com

"The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh"
-Charles Field

On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:06 PM, Chris Meyer <chris@crishdesign.com> wrot= e:

That work around doesn't always work. I = far prefer to use the x264 variant of the h.264 codec.

Background: http://provideocoalition.com/cmg_ke= yframes/story/brightness_issues_with_h264_quicktime_movies

I'll email you the codec separately. Install in Library > QuickT= ime.

=A0- Chris


________________________________________________
Chris Meyer | Crish Design
http://www.crishdesign.com


On Jun 3, 2013, at 7:14 PM, Lachlan Westfall <lachlan@quietearth.net>= wrote:

Thanks.... Trying this now...

-L

On 6/3/13 5:53 PM, "David Torno" <torno@sydefxink.com> wrot= e:

H.264 rendered from AE or exported from = QT Pro will always come out washed out and pale in the saturation. In QT Pro= you need to open "Show Movie Properties" under window, select =A0&q= uot;Video Track" > "Visual Settings" and click the "T= ransparency" dropdown and choose "Composition". This will bri= ng the video gamma very closely back to the original source.

David Torno
Visual Effects Artist & Supervisor
http://www.ghosttownmedia.com <= a href=3D"http://www.ghosttownmedia.com/"><http://www.ghosttownmedia.com/&g= t;
O: 213.739.2290 <tel:213.739.2290>
C: 818.391.6060 <tel:818.391.6060>
---------------------
http://www.sydefxink.com <http://www.sydefxink.com/>
http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com <= a href=3D"http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com/"><http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com/&g= t;
http://mactex.blogspot.com <http://mactex.blogspot.com/>

"The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh"
-Charles Field

On Jun 3, 2013, at 5:42 PM, Lachlan Westfall <lachlan@quietearth.net>= wrote:

Re: [AE] AE to QT Color Problem IR= 17;m rendering out lossless, then converting to H.264 via QT. The problem ca= n be seen even in the lossless version.

I also just found something in the AE preferences about matching legacy QT = gamma adjustments. I wonder if this has something to do with it?

-L

On 6/3/13 5:37 PM, "scott.aelist" <scott.aelist@gmail.com> = wrote:

What codec are you using?


<= BLOCKQUOTE>







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