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Subject: Re: [AE] New MacPro
From: Steve Oakley <steveo@practicali.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-5102598@media-motion.tv>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 14:23:39 -0500
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Message-Id: <255A4F6E-0062-4240-9D5D-E3929B65D747@practicali.com>
References: <list-5102598@media-motion.tv>
To: "After Effects Mail List" <AE-List@media-motion.tv>


On Jun 11, 2013, at 1:58 PM, Dan Spiess <dspiess@lighthousetv.com> =
wrote:
> You complain about the price of the new Mac Pro, but you don't know =
how much they will sell it for.=20

ZENON chips are horribly overpriced at upwards of $1k ea from intel. =
that gives us a quick ballpark. we also have previous model pricing =
using the same chips as a guide line. quite possibly intel will cut =
apple a deal on what are now pretty old CPU's

> You complain about the graphics, but you haven't seen any benchmarks.

maybe. however they again are not saying latest greatest chips but some =
what slower performing firepro chips. no secret about this based on all =
prior models. the fact is ATI doesn't support CUDA which means no GPU =
ray tracing in AE which I use quite a bit. CPU rendering is really =
unusable.

> You complain about too many cables, without understanding ANYTHING =
about thunderbolt, cause if you did, you'd know you can daisy chain all =
your external devices.=20

I'm not complaining about this... except for the TB premium on =
everything.

> You don't know how much ram you can get into the Mac Pro, when a =
simple check of the Apple web site reveals up to 60 gigs.=20

64gb. its F'ing ECC ram though which is $$$$. hopefully standard non-ECC =
ram will work making for a less painful price. 8gb chips are cheaper to =
expect to put 32gb in it if your cash is not unlimited.

> You perceive a computer that's not fast enough, doesn't have great =
GPU's and yet you have NO idea how it will stack up to competitors =
computers.=20

give or take 5%, we already know where it will benchmark. its old chips. =
there are faster chips now including the i7 series.

> Also, I doubt we will see this new computer till most likely early =
next year (when Intel releases the new Thunderbolt 2 chips), so lots can =
change between now and then.

unfortunately  apple has placed most power users into a corner. I expect =
the old towers to maintain a high near new used price :( for being able =
to have your choice of GPU's. if it weren't for the K5000 I'm running =
right now I would of been forced to upgrade into a better machine. =
however the last 2 rounds of GPU upgrades have kept my 2008 tower =
perfectly serviceable. I just had an ad agency guy in here who commented =
how fast my system was while editing :)

so realistically I see 3 choices assuming the iWasteBasket is $3k+... an =
27" i7 iMac will equal or out perform it for $1K less, a hackinstosh, go =
PC :(

you also missed that there is no internal space for any spinning drives. =
Sorry but with 4 drives + SSD in my tower, I need the SSD for speed, the =
spinning drives for speed + space thats fast. spending $300-$500 for a =
TB case to hold 4 drives is crazy. once you add in that the price =
performance ratio gets even worse. this is a business and the ROI has to =
be there. I'm not seeing it with this thing.=20

please don't get me wrong, I really wish apple has delivered something =
very close to this, but with dual 16X PCIe slots and your choice of GPU, =
and 4-5 drive holes. it wouldn't of been a much larger case and would of =
hit a far better price point because of all the extra stuff you would =
not need to add.

S


>=20
> And just because I responded to Dennis' post, does not mean I'm =
directing this at him.
>=20
> Dan Spiess
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Jun 10, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Dennis Wilkins <dennis@reelsolutions.com> =
wrote:
>=20
>> If Apple had only known they could have consulted with this forum to =
find out what the average high performance mac user wants=85
>>=20
>> I own many macs, currently have a renderfarm of 5 over-clocked =
water-cooled hackintoshes, and I don't think those fit the average user =
any better than this machine. They can be a time suck and a pita=85=20
>>=20
>> Most people on this forum bill for their time until they start =
talking about how much money they can save building computers...
>>=20
>> My main workstation is a Mac Pro and I imagine it will be for awhile. =
I don't want to mess with - build - troubleshoot etc. my main source of =
income. Talk about unnecessary stress.
>>=20
>> Cooling, you can't really compare this to a ridiculous PC box that is =
blowing air every direction out of multiple components without any =
thought whatsoever as to what is creating the heat where and how best to =
get it out.=20
>>=20
>> I was hoping for a rack mount expandable Mac Pro replacement, but I'm =
not totally hating this new format yet. It would be nice to have a =
Nvidia card option. I can't imagine a 64GB RAM limit but we'll have to =
wait and see. That would be the biggest mistake I see so far with these =
new machines.
>>=20
>> - You haven't been able to upgrade a chip in a MacPro for years - =
they're soldered in.
>>=20
>> All this is just another biased opinion=85 For what it's worth=85 I =
imagine Apple has a better handle on their customer base than I.
>>=20
>> Dennis Wilkins=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Jun 10, 2013, at 1:25 PM, Teddy Gage <teddygage@gmail.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> I'd say the point is not that you can or can't (or wouldn't) =
overclock the mac pro, it's that it is extremely easy to overclock a =
much cheaper PC. Which then makes it even more valuable when compared to =
the MP in terms of both price and render power.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Brian Higgins =
<higgins@soldesignfx.com> wrote:
>>> Does anyone actually overclock Mac Pros?  If you're that technically =
inclined, you've already built a Hackintosh.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Teddy Gage <teddygage@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>>> I'm guessing RAM maxes out at 64GB but I'm sure that costs an extra =
$2k. The fact is, this machine will be impossible to overclock due to =
the size and cooling capacity. As someone who builds computers I can =
tell you this is simple physics, unless they are using phase exchangers =
or liquid hydrogen. I'm guessing a minimum entry price point of $3999. =
The intel 3930K chip overclocked is faster than the 8 core xeon and =
currently retails for under $500. See my cinebench scores =
http://imgur.com/xMTkacD. You can build a system around that chip for =
another $600. You could literally have 3 computers that, together, are =
4x faster than the iWastebasket for the entry level price, before you do =
any upgrading to the MP. Let alone lose all your invested stock of pci-e =
cards, adapters, hard drives, etc.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Jim Curtis <jpcurtis@me.com> wrote:
>>> http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> RAM maximum?
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Jun 10, 2013, at 3:04 PM, S=F8ren Christensen wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> what is  most cryptic right now - to me at least - is how they plan =
for the user to access the 40GB/320Gbit pci express bandwidth?=20
>>>> The thunderbolt2 ports only accounts for about 1/3 of the available =
bandwidth.
>>>> I guess thats why they called it a sneak peak :-)
>>>>=20
>>>> Still, I dont mind running the adobe cc on that.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> <dslnc_email2_black.png>
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
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>>>> ||||  www.dslnc.com - motion & interactivity
>>>> ||||  +34 93 268 0953  /  +34 61 555 9963 (mobile)
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>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Jun 10, 2013, at 9:40 PM, Stephen van Vuuren =
<stephen@sv2studios.com> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> =46rom the Apple click-through, it appears if I'm seeing it right =
to be a
>>>>> single socket with 4 RAM slots, meaning CPU and memory options =
will be
>>>>> pretty limited. Only RAM and CPU looks like standard expansion, so =
Teddy may
>>>>> be right, this thing may be for the most part, no more =
configurable than a
>>>>> laptop.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> stephen van vuuren
>>>>> 336.202.4777
>>>>>=20
>>>>> http://www.insaturnsrings.com/
>>>>> http://www.sv2dcp.com/
>>>>> http://www.sv2studios.com/
>>>>>=20
>>>>> A film is - or should be - more like music than like fiction. It =
should be a
>>>>> progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what's behind the =
emotion, the
>>>>> meaning, all that comes later.
>>>>> -Stanley Kubrick
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> +---End of message---+
>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> --=20
>>> Animator & Editor
>>> www.teddygage.com
>>> Brooklyn
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> --=20
>>> brian higgins | creative director
>>> Sol  Design
>>> 312.706.5500
>>> higgins@soldesignfx.com
>>> soldesignfx.com
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> --=20
>>> Animator & Editor
>>> www.teddygage.com
>>> Brooklyn
>>=20
>=20
>=20
> +---End of message---+
> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>