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Subject: Re: [AE] New MacPro
From: Dennis Wilkins <dennis@reelsolutions.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-5102635@media-motion.tv>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 12:39:26 -0700
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Message-Id: <442B3E72-2C62-4A21-904D-955C4803E403@reelsolutions.com>
References: <list-5102635@media-motion.tv>
To: "After Effects Mail List" <AE-List@media-motion.tv>

The Xeon chip they'll be using hasn't even been released yet, I don't =
know what you mean by calling it "old".

Apple has not said how many slots are available or what the RAM limit =
will be, There are non ECC 32GB RAM sticks available, so 4 slots could =
hold 128GB  fairly easily (or they could add 4 more slots, what they're =
showing is a preview of the next Mac Pro)=85

The fact that they're using one 12-core chip vs the two that are needed =
currently could point to a potential cost savings (Xeon chips are very =
expensive).

If you think i7 chips are fast, look at the C4D benchmarks that are =
available (http://www.cbscores.com); Xeon's still rule on the high-end, =
sorry.

You won't think the CUDA 3d rendering in AE is "fast", when you are able =
to use the CPU rendering in C4D=85

 - On the one hand I want a CUDA option, but in the end isn't it better =
that Open CL become the standard? Even if Nvidia cards have been faster =
in recent years, do you really want Nvidia to have a lock on this =
market? Who is in a better position to see that this doesn't happen? Why =
isn't anyone mad that Nvidia doesn't open source or license CUDA?

We don't know currently how fast the GPU's will be, but Grant Petty =
seems to be a fan. Resolve is probably one of the best examples of a =
highly GPU accelerated app, so I would take his opinion as a good sign.

- Dennis Wilkins


On Jun 11, 2013, at 12:23 PM, Steve Oakley <steveo@practicali.com> =
wrote:

>=20
> On Jun 11, 2013, at 1:58 PM, Dan Spiess <dspiess@lighthousetv.com> =
wrote:
>> You complain about the price of the new Mac Pro, but you don't know =
how much they will sell it for.=20
>=20
> ZENON chips are horribly overpriced at upwards of $1k ea from intel. =
that gives us a quick ballpark. we also have previous model pricing =
using the same chips as a guide line. quite possibly intel will cut =
apple a deal on what are now pretty old CPU's
>=20
>> You complain about the graphics, but you haven't seen any benchmarks.
>=20
> maybe. however they again are not saying latest greatest chips but =
some what slower performing firepro chips. no secret about this based on =
all prior models. the fact is ATI doesn't support CUDA which means no =
GPU ray tracing in AE which I use quite a bit. CPU rendering is really =
unusable.
>=20
>> You complain about too many cables, without understanding ANYTHING =
about thunderbolt, cause if you did, you'd know you can daisy chain all =
your external devices.=20
>=20
> I'm not complaining about this... except for the TB premium on =
everything.
>=20
>> You don't know how much ram you can get into the Mac Pro, when a =
simple check of the Apple web site reveals up to 60 gigs.=20
>=20
> 64gb. its F'ing ECC ram though which is $$$$. hopefully standard =
non-ECC ram will work making for a less painful price. 8gb chips are =
cheaper to expect to put 32gb in it if your cash is not unlimited.
>=20
>> You perceive a computer that's not fast enough, doesn't have great =
GPU's and yet you have NO idea how it will stack up to competitors =
computers.=20
>=20
> give or take 5%, we already know where it will benchmark. its old =
chips. there are faster chips now including the i7 series.
>=20
>> Also, I doubt we will see this new computer till most likely early =
next year (when Intel releases the new Thunderbolt 2 chips), so lots can =
change between now and then.
>=20
> unfortunately  apple has placed most power users into a corner. I =
expect the old towers to maintain a high near new used price :( for =
being able to have your choice of GPU's. if it weren't for the K5000 I'm =
running right now I would of been forced to upgrade into a better =
machine. however the last 2 rounds of GPU upgrades have kept my 2008 =
tower perfectly serviceable. I just had an ad agency guy in here who =
commented how fast my system was while editing :)
>=20
> so realistically I see 3 choices assuming the iWasteBasket is $3k+... =
an 27" i7 iMac will equal or out perform it for $1K less, a hackinstosh, =
go PC :(
>=20
> you also missed that there is no internal space for any spinning =
drives. Sorry but with 4 drives + SSD in my tower, I need the SSD for =
speed, the spinning drives for speed + space thats fast. spending =
$300-$500 for a TB case to hold 4 drives is crazy. once you add in that =
the price performance ratio gets even worse. this is a business and the =
ROI has to be there. I'm not seeing it with this thing.=20
>=20
> please don't get me wrong, I really wish apple has delivered something =
very close to this, but with dual 16X PCIe slots and your choice of GPU, =
and 4-5 drive holes. it wouldn't of been a much larger case and would of =
hit a far better price point because of all the extra stuff you would =
not need to add.
>=20
> S
>=20
>=20
>>=20
>> And just because I responded to Dennis' post, does not mean I'm =
directing this at him.
>>=20
>> Dan Spiess
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Jun 10, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Dennis Wilkins =
<dennis@reelsolutions.com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> If Apple had only known they could have consulted with this forum to =
find out what the average high performance mac user wants=85
>>>=20
>>> I own many macs, currently have a renderfarm of 5 over-clocked =
water-cooled hackintoshes, and I don't think those fit the average user =
any better than this machine. They can be a time suck and a pita=85=20
>>>=20
>>> Most people on this forum bill for their time until they start =
talking about how much money they can save building computers...
>>>=20
>>> My main workstation is a Mac Pro and I imagine it will be for =
awhile. I don't want to mess with - build - troubleshoot etc. my main =
source of income. Talk about unnecessary stress.
>>>=20
>>> Cooling, you can't really compare this to a ridiculous PC box that =
is blowing air every direction out of multiple components without any =
thought whatsoever as to what is creating the heat where and how best to =
get it out.=20
>>>=20
>>> I was hoping for a rack mount expandable Mac Pro replacement, but =
I'm not totally hating this new format yet. It would be nice to have a =
Nvidia card option. I can't imagine a 64GB RAM limit but we'll have to =
wait and see. That would be the biggest mistake I see so far with these =
new machines.
>>>=20
>>> - You haven't been able to upgrade a chip in a MacPro for years - =
they're soldered in.
>>>=20
>>> All this is just another biased opinion=85 For what it's worth=85 I =
imagine Apple has a better handle on their customer base than I.
>>>=20
>>> Dennis Wilkins=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Jun 10, 2013, at 1:25 PM, Teddy Gage <teddygage@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> I'd say the point is not that you can or can't (or wouldn't) =
overclock the mac pro, it's that it is extremely easy to overclock a =
much cheaper PC. Which then makes it even more valuable when compared to =
the MP in terms of both price and render power.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Brian Higgins =
<higgins@soldesignfx.com> wrote:
>>>> Does anyone actually overclock Mac Pros?  If you're that =
technically inclined, you've already built a Hackintosh.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Teddy Gage <teddygage@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>>>> I'm guessing RAM maxes out at 64GB but I'm sure that costs an extra =
$2k. The fact is, this machine will be impossible to overclock due to =
the size and cooling capacity. As someone who builds computers I can =
tell you this is simple physics, unless they are using phase exchangers =
or liquid hydrogen. I'm guessing a minimum entry price point of $3999. =
The intel 3930K chip overclocked is faster than the 8 core xeon and =
currently retails for under $500. See my cinebench scores =
http://imgur.com/xMTkacD. You can build a system around that chip for =
another $600. You could literally have 3 computers that, together, are =
4x faster than the iWastebasket for the entry level price, before you do =
any upgrading to the MP. Let alone lose all your invested stock of pci-e =
cards, adapters, hard drives, etc.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Jim Curtis <jpcurtis@me.com> =
wrote:
>>>> http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> RAM maximum?
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Jun 10, 2013, at 3:04 PM, S=F8ren Christensen wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> what is  most cryptic right now - to me at least - is how they =
plan for the user to access the 40GB/320Gbit pci express bandwidth?=20
>>>>> The thunderbolt2 ports only accounts for about 1/3 of the =
available bandwidth.
>>>>> I guess thats why they called it a sneak peak :-)
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Still, I dont mind running the adobe cc on that.
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> <dslnc_email2_black.png>
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
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>>>>>=20
>>>>> On Jun 10, 2013, at 9:40 PM, Stephen van Vuuren =
<stephen@sv2studios.com> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> =46rom the Apple click-through, it appears if I'm seeing it right =
to be a
>>>>>> single socket with 4 RAM slots, meaning CPU and memory options =
will be
>>>>>> pretty limited. Only RAM and CPU looks like standard expansion, =
so Teddy may
>>>>>> be right, this thing may be for the most part, no more =
configurable than a
>>>>>> laptop.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> stephen van vuuren
>>>>>> 336.202.4777
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> http://www.insaturnsrings.com/
>>>>>> http://www.sv2dcp.com/
>>>>>> http://www.sv2studios.com/
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> A film is - or should be - more like music than like fiction. It =
should be a
>>>>>> progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what's behind the =
emotion, the
>>>>>> meaning, all that comes later.
>>>>>> -Stanley Kubrick
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> +---End of message---+
>>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> --=20
>>>> Animator & Editor
>>>> www.teddygage.com
>>>> Brooklyn
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> --=20
>>>> brian higgins | creative director
>>>> Sol  Design
>>>> 312.706.5500
>>>> higgins@soldesignfx.com
>>>> soldesignfx.com
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> --=20
>>>> Animator & Editor
>>>> www.teddygage.com
>>>> Brooklyn
>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> +---End of message---+
>> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>
>=20
>=20
> +---End of message---+
> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>