Return-Path: Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.195] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5102683 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 21:59:18 +0200 Received: from [10.1.1.213] (71-13-195-18.static.eucl.wi.charter.com [71.13.195.18]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus4) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0Lx8mf-1UJc5d0KNN-01724W; Tue, 11 Jun 2013 16:09:09 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) Subject: Re: [AE] New MacPro From: Steve Oakley In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 15:09:09 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: "After Effects Mail List" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:QwNIkOg8XmjcMRb9wpbi7DuM5kKbAU4PlXW1MdChfEp vcD6qUXav5/iAyns9pTw7pyXyJTk45wRziwNSujczk5lbW9LL0 f/qns+qTI74M6QpAuy2QaNG0kuS/obW8ycTFJ7rG04Lt3KG0NV Xnty7bjqIUVuTcYQgu5QJ1iyOcw3o7mHiAcTS4AzL7h4NhkMr9 rk/SjS3eicyBXpvn7k2wLkQurzMQcNuMviGy8uz5hnUPeNkoUs rtjT83odtxCmDqQo0lH16rCUOnZnlaku3YnG0EEIusS2mY/pjY QIGWsjJyAPmdLf+HEIDKjHTu/8IaudEAuxr8j6IACu5xjLhd7S PMjxOJaD/Jn8FPOQXDzU81atDXjcTZQ0xNIQXFpyocdzXpgO0g pcQ8chYJPP8CQ== On Jun 11, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Dennis Wilkins = wrote: > Apple has not said how many slots are available or what the RAM limit = will be, There are non ECC 32GB RAM sticks available, so 4 slots could = hold 128GB fairly easily (or they could add 4 more slots, what they're = showing is a preview of the next Mac Pro)=85 the pix pretty clearly show 4. I'd be happy with 32gb.=20 > The fact that they're using one 12-core chip vs the two that are = needed currently could point to a potential cost savings (Xeon chips are = very expensive). as of today, newegg pricing : 8 core 2ghz Xeon $1139. figure apple pays = around $1k, faster ones even more. 6 core 2ghz $424 so maybe apple can = hit a $2500 price point. > If you think i7 chips are fast, look at the C4D benchmarks that are = available (http://www.cbscores.com); Xeon's still rule on the high-end, = sorry. maybe, but I don't see an ROI on spending 50% more for 10-15% faster. I = don't need the fastest CPU, just one thats really fast. my i7 2.93 = 4core averages 5% than my zeon 4X2 2.8 tower. the i7's have more than = good enough performance. > You won't think the CUDA 3d rendering in AE is "fast", when you are = able to use the CPU rendering in C4D=85 I have absolutely no plans to use C4D so thats irrelevant. I only care = about AE's rendering speed because thats all I use. do I think CUDA = rendering is as fast as it could be ? no, but its also V1.0 S >=20 > - On the one hand I want a CUDA option, but in the end isn't it better = that Open CL become the standard? Even if Nvidia cards have been faster = in recent years, do you really want Nvidia to have a lock on this = market? Who is in a better position to see that this doesn't happen? Why = isn't anyone mad that Nvidia doesn't open source or license CUDA? >=20 > We don't know currently how fast the GPU's will be, but Grant Petty = seems to be a fan. Resolve is probably one of the best examples of a = highly GPU accelerated app, so I would take his opinion as a good sign. >=20 > - Dennis Wilkins >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Jun 11, 2013, at 12:23 PM, Steve Oakley = wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> On Jun 11, 2013, at 1:58 PM, Dan Spiess = wrote: >>> You complain about the price of the new Mac Pro, but you don't know = how much they will sell it for.=20 >>=20 >> ZENON chips are horribly overpriced at upwards of $1k ea from intel. = that gives us a quick ballpark. we also have previous model pricing = using the same chips as a guide line. quite possibly intel will cut = apple a deal on what are now pretty old CPU's >>=20 >>> You complain about the graphics, but you haven't seen any = benchmarks. >>=20 >> maybe. however they again are not saying latest greatest chips but = some what slower performing firepro chips. no secret about this based on = all prior models. the fact is ATI doesn't support CUDA which means no = GPU ray tracing in AE which I use quite a bit. CPU rendering is really = unusable. >>=20 >>> You complain about too many cables, without understanding ANYTHING = about thunderbolt, cause if you did, you'd know you can daisy chain all = your external devices.=20 >>=20 >> I'm not complaining about this... except for the TB premium on = everything. >>=20 >>> You don't know how much ram you can get into the Mac Pro, when a = simple check of the Apple web site reveals up to 60 gigs.=20 >>=20 >> 64gb. its F'ing ECC ram though which is $$$$. hopefully standard = non-ECC ram will work making for a less painful price. 8gb chips are = cheaper to expect to put 32gb in it if your cash is not unlimited. >>=20 >>> You perceive a computer that's not fast enough, doesn't have great = GPU's and yet you have NO idea how it will stack up to competitors = computers.=20 >>=20 >> give or take 5%, we already know where it will benchmark. its old = chips. there are faster chips now including the i7 series. >>=20 >>> Also, I doubt we will see this new computer till most likely early = next year (when Intel releases the new Thunderbolt 2 chips), so lots can = change between now and then. >>=20 >> unfortunately apple has placed most power users into a corner. I = expect the old towers to maintain a high near new used price :( for = being able to have your choice of GPU's. if it weren't for the K5000 I'm = running right now I would of been forced to upgrade into a better = machine. however the last 2 rounds of GPU upgrades have kept my 2008 = tower perfectly serviceable. I just had an ad agency guy in here who = commented how fast my system was while editing :) >>=20 >> so realistically I see 3 choices assuming the iWasteBasket is $3k+... = an 27" i7 iMac will equal or out perform it for $1K less, a hackinstosh, = go PC :( >>=20 >> you also missed that there is no internal space for any spinning = drives. Sorry but with 4 drives + SSD in my tower, I need the SSD for = speed, the spinning drives for speed + space thats fast. spending = $300-$500 for a TB case to hold 4 drives is crazy. once you add in that = the price performance ratio gets even worse. this is a business and the = ROI has to be there. I'm not seeing it with this thing.=20 >>=20 >> please don't get me wrong, I really wish apple has delivered = something very close to this, but with dual 16X PCIe slots and your = choice of GPU, and 4-5 drive holes. it wouldn't of been a much larger = case and would of hit a far better price point because of all the extra = stuff you would not need to add. >>=20 >> S >>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> And just because I responded to Dennis' post, does not mean I'm = directing this at him. >>>=20 >>> Dan Spiess >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Jun 10, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Dennis Wilkins = wrote: >>>=20 >>>> If Apple had only known they could have consulted with this forum = to find out what the average high performance mac user wants=85 >>>>=20 >>>> I own many macs, currently have a renderfarm of 5 over-clocked = water-cooled hackintoshes, and I don't think those fit the average user = any better than this machine. They can be a time suck and a pita=85=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Most people on this forum bill for their time until they start = talking about how much money they can save building computers... >>>>=20 >>>> My main workstation is a Mac Pro and I imagine it will be for = awhile. I don't want to mess with - build - troubleshoot etc. my main = source of income. Talk about unnecessary stress. >>>>=20 >>>> Cooling, you can't really compare this to a ridiculous PC box that = is blowing air every direction out of multiple components without any = thought whatsoever as to what is creating the heat where and how best to = get it out.=20 >>>>=20 >>>> I was hoping for a rack mount expandable Mac Pro replacement, but = I'm not totally hating this new format yet. It would be nice to have a = Nvidia card option. I can't imagine a 64GB RAM limit but we'll have to = wait and see. That would be the biggest mistake I see so far with these = new machines. >>>>=20 >>>> - You haven't been able to upgrade a chip in a MacPro for years - = they're soldered in. >>>>=20 >>>> All this is just another biased opinion=85 For what it's worth=85 I = imagine Apple has a better handle on their customer base than I. >>>>=20 >>>> Dennis Wilkins=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On Jun 10, 2013, at 1:25 PM, Teddy Gage = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> I'd say the point is not that you can or can't (or wouldn't) = overclock the mac pro, it's that it is extremely easy to overclock a = much cheaper PC. Which then makes it even more valuable when compared to = the MP in terms of both price and render power. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Brian Higgins = wrote: >>>>> Does anyone actually overclock Mac Pros? If you're that = technically inclined, you've already built a Hackintosh. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Teddy Gage = wrote: >>>>> I'm guessing RAM maxes out at 64GB but I'm sure that costs an = extra $2k. The fact is, this machine will be impossible to overclock due = to the size and cooling capacity. As someone who builds computers I can = tell you this is simple physics, unless they are using phase exchangers = or liquid hydrogen. I'm guessing a minimum entry price point of $3999. = The intel 3930K chip overclocked is faster than the 8 core xeon and = currently retails for under $500. See my cinebench scores = http://imgur.com/xMTkacD. You can build a system around that chip for = another $600. You could literally have 3 computers that, together, are = 4x faster than the iWastebasket for the entry level price, before you do = any upgrading to the MP. Let alone lose all your invested stock of pci-e = cards, adapters, hard drives, etc. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Jim Curtis = wrote: >>>>> http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/ >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> RAM maximum? >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Jun 10, 2013, at 3:04 PM, S=F8ren Christensen wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> what is most cryptic right now - to me at least - is how they = plan for the user to access the 40GB/320Gbit pci express bandwidth?=20 >>>>>> The thunderbolt2 ports only accounts for about 1/3 of the = available bandwidth. >>>>>> I guess thats why they called it a sneak peak :-) >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Still, I dont mind running the adobe cc on that. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> |||| DESILENCE STUDIO >>>>>> |||| www.dslnc.com - motion & interactivity >>>>>> |||| +34 93 268 0953 / +34 61 555 9963 (mobile) >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> |||| SOCIAL >>>>>> |||| facebook.dslnc.com >>>>>> |||| twitter.dslnc.com >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> |||| NEW SHOWREEL 2013 >>>>>> |||| http://v5.dslnc.com/reel/ >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Jun 10, 2013, at 9:40 PM, Stephen van Vuuren = wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> =46rom the Apple click-through, it appears if I'm seeing it = right to be a >>>>>>> single socket with 4 RAM slots, meaning CPU and memory options = will be >>>>>>> pretty limited. Only RAM and CPU looks like standard expansion, = so Teddy may >>>>>>> be right, this thing may be for the most part, no more = configurable than a >>>>>>> laptop. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> stephen van vuuren >>>>>>> 336.202.4777 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> http://www.insaturnsrings.com/ >>>>>>> http://www.sv2dcp.com/ >>>>>>> http://www.sv2studios.com/ >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> A film is - or should be - more like music than like fiction. It = should be a >>>>>>> progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what's behind the = emotion, the >>>>>>> meaning, all that comes later. >>>>>>> -Stanley Kubrick >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> +---End of message---+ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> --=20 >>>>> Animator & Editor >>>>> www.teddygage.com >>>>> Brooklyn >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> --=20 >>>>> brian higgins | creative director >>>>> Sol Design >>>>> 312.706.5500 >>>>> higgins@soldesignfx.com >>>>> soldesignfx.com >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> --=20 >>>>> Animator & Editor >>>>> www.teddygage.com >>>>> Brooklyn >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> +---End of message---+ >>> To unsubscribe send any message to >>=20 >>=20 >> +---End of message---+ >> To unsubscribe send any message to >=20 >=20 > +---End of message---+ > To unsubscribe send any message to