On Jun 11, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Dennis Wilkins <dennis@reelsolutions.com> wrote:
> Apple has not said how many slots are available or what the RAM limit will be, There are non ECC 32GB RAM sticks available, so 4 slots could hold 128GB  fairly easily (or they could add 4 more slots, what they're showing is a preview of the next Mac Pro)…

the pix pretty clearly show 4. I'd be happy with 32gb.

> The fact that they're using one 12-core chip vs the two that are needed currently could point to a potential cost savings (Xeon chips are very expensive).

as of today, newegg pricing : 8 core 2ghz Xeon $1139. figure apple pays around $1k, faster ones even more.  6 core 2ghz $424 so maybe apple can hit a $2500 price point.

> If you think i7 chips are fast, look at the C4D benchmarks that are available (http://www.cbscores.com); Xeon's still rule on the high-end, sorry.

maybe, but I don't see an ROI on spending 50% more for 10-15% faster. I don't need the fastest CPU, just one thats really fast.  my i7 2.93 4core averages 5% than my zeon 4X2 2.8 tower. the i7's have more than good enough performance.

> You won't think the CUDA 3d rendering in AE is "fast", when you are able to use the CPU rendering in C4D…

I have absolutely no plans to use C4D so thats irrelevant. I only care about AE's rendering speed because thats all I use. do I think CUDA rendering is as fast as it could be ? no, but its also V1.0

S

>
> - On the one hand I want a CUDA option, but in the end isn't it better that Open CL become the standard? Even if Nvidia cards have been faster in recent years, do you really want Nvidia to have a lock on this market? Who is in a better position to see that this doesn't happen? Why isn't anyone mad that Nvidia doesn't open source or license CUDA?
>
> We don't know currently how fast the GPU's will be, but Grant Petty seems to be a fan. Resolve is probably one of the best examples of a highly GPU accelerated app, so I would take his opinion as a good sign.
>

> - Dennis Wilkins
>
>
>
> On Jun 11, 2013, at 12:23 PM, Steve Oakley <steveo@practicali.com> wrote:
>
>>

>> On Jun 11, 2013, at 1:58 PM, Dan Spiess <dspiess@lighthousetv.com> wrote:
>>> You complain about the price of the new Mac Pro, but you don't know how much they will sell it for.
>>
>> ZENON chips are horribly overpriced at upwards of $1k ea from intel. that gives us a quick ballpark. we also have previous model pricing using the same chips as a guide line. quite possibly intel will cut apple a deal on what are now pretty old CPU's
>>
>>> You complain about the graphics, but you haven't seen any benchmarks.
>>
>> maybe. however they again are not saying latest greatest chips but some what slower performing firepro chips. no secret about this based on all prior models. the fact is ATI doesn't support CUDA which means no GPU ray tracing in AE which I use quite a bit. CPU rendering is really unusable.
>>
>>> You complain about too many cables, without understanding ANYTHING about thunderbolt, cause if you did, you'd know you can daisy chain all your external devices.
>>
>> I'm not complaining about this... except for the TB premium on everything.
>>
>>> You don't know how much ram you can get into the Mac Pro, when a simple check of the Apple web site reveals up to 60 gigs.
>>
>> 64gb. its F'ing ECC ram though which is $$$$. hopefully standard non-ECC ram will work making for a less painful price. 8gb chips are cheaper to expect to put 32gb in it if your cash is not unlimited.
>>
>>> You perceive a computer that's not fast enough, doesn't have great GPU's and yet you have NO idea how it will stack up to competitors computers.
>>
>> give or take 5%, we already know where it will benchmark. its old chips. there are faster chips now including the i7 series.
>>
>>> Also, I doubt we will see this new computer till most likely early next year (when Intel releases the new Thunderbolt 2 chips), so lots can change between now and then.
>>
>> unfortunately  apple has placed most power users into a corner. I expect the old towers to maintain a high near new used price :( for being able to have your choice of GPU's. if it weren't for the K5000 I'm running right now I would of been forced to upgrade into a better machine. however the last 2 rounds of GPU upgrades have kept my 2008 tower perfectly serviceable. I just had an ad agency guy in here who commented how fast my system was while editing :)
>>
>> so realistically I see 3 choices assuming the iWasteBasket is $3k+... an 27" i7 iMac will equal or out perform it for $1K less, a hackinstosh, go PC :(
>>
>> you also missed that there is no internal space for any spinning drives. Sorry but with 4 drives + SSD in my tower, I need the SSD for speed, the spinning drives for speed + space thats fast. spending $300-$500 for a TB case to hold 4 drives is crazy. once you add in that the price performance ratio gets even worse. this is a business and the ROI has to be there. I'm not seeing it with this thing.
>>

>> please don't get me wrong, I really wish apple has delivered something very close to this, but with dual 16X PCIe slots and your choice of GPU, and 4-5 drive holes. it wouldn't of been a much larger case and would of hit a far better price point because of all the extra stuff you would not need to add.
>>

>> S
>>
>>
>>>
>>> And just because I responded to Dennis' post, does not mean I'm directing this at him.
>>>
>>> Dan Spiess
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 10, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Dennis Wilkins <dennis@reelsolutions.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If Apple had only known they could have consulted with this forum to find out what the average high performance mac user wants…
>>>>
>>>> I own many macs, currently have a renderfarm of 5 over-clocked water-cooled hackintoshes, and I don't think those fit the average user any better than this machine. They can be a time suck and a pita…
>>>>
>>>> Most people on this forum bill for their time until they start talking about how much money they can save building computers...
>>>>
>>>> My main workstation is a Mac Pro and I imagine it will be for awhile. I don't want to mess with - build - troubleshoot etc. my main source of income. Talk about unnecessary stress.
>>>>
>>>> Cooling, you can't really compare this to a ridiculous PC box that is blowing air every direction out of multiple components without any thought whatsoever as to what is creating the heat where and how best to get it out.
>>>>
>>>> I was hoping for a rack mount expandable Mac Pro replacement, but I'm not totally hating this new format yet. It would be nice to have a Nvidia card option. I can't imagine a 64GB RAM limit but we'll have to wait and see. That would be the biggest mistake I see so far with these new machines.
>>>>
>>>> - You haven't been able to upgrade a chip in a MacPro for years - they're soldered in.
>>>>
>>>> All this is just another biased opinion… For what it's worth… I imagine Apple has a better handle on their customer base than I.
>>>>
>>>> Dennis Wilkins
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 10, 2013, at 1:25 PM, Teddy Gage <teddygage@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'd say the point is not that you can or can't (or wouldn't) overclock the mac pro, it's that it is extremely easy to overclock a much cheaper PC. Which then makes it even more valuable when compared to the MP in terms of both price and render power.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Brian Higgins <higgins@soldesignfx.com> wrote:
>>>>> Does anyone actually overclock Mac Pros?  If you're that technically inclined, you've already built a Hackintosh.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Teddy Gage <teddygage@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'm guessing RAM maxes out at 64GB but I'm sure that costs an extra $2k. The fact is, this machine will be impossible to overclock due to the size and cooling capacity. As someone who builds computers I can tell you this is simple physics, unless they are using phase exchangers or liquid hydrogen. I'm guessing a minimum entry price point of $3999. The intel 3930K chip overclocked is faster than the 8 core xeon and currently retails for under $500. See my cinebench scores http://imgur.com/xMTkacD. You can build a system around that chip for another $600. You could literally have 3 computers that, together, are 4x faster than the iWastebasket for the entry level price, before you do any upgrading to the MP. Let alone lose all your invested stock of pci-e cards, adapters, hard drives, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Jim Curtis <jpcurtis@me.com> wrote:
>>>>> http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> RAM maximum?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 10, 2013, at 3:04 PM, Søren Christensen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> what is  most cryptic right now - to me at least - is how they plan for the user to access the 40GB/320Gbit pci express bandwidth?
>>>>>> The thunderbolt2 ports only accounts for about 1/3 of the available bandwidth.
>>>>>> I guess thats why they called it a sneak peak :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still, I dont mind running the adobe cc on that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> On Jun 10, 2013, at 9:40 PM, Stephen van Vuuren <stephen@sv2studios.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From the Apple click-through, it appears if I'm seeing it right to be a
>>>>>>> single socket with 4 RAM slots, meaning CPU and memory options will be
>>>>>>> pretty limited. Only RAM and CPU looks like standard expansion, so Teddy may
>>>>>>> be right, this thing may be for the most part, no more configurable than a
>>>>>>> laptop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> stephen van vuuren
>>>>>>> 336.202.4777
>>>>>>>
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