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In-Reply-To: <list-5146717@media-motion.tv>
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From: Louai Abu-Osba <me@louai.org>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 14:53:54 -0400
Message-ID: <CABan1zMjyW3-pBN1Cb7UTVz4Pv7G+Xa4Xg6wA83yT4u6ML_SrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [AE] lossless codec in a container roundup
To: After Effects Mail List <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

What codecs are you using Teddy?

On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Teddy Gage <teddygage@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh boy, another mac vs. pc codec thread. How exciting. Steve: not everyone
> can afford a $5,000 mac pro with half the render power of an equivalent PC.
> Neither system is perfect. Use the tools you need to get the job done.
> There's always a solution.
> -TG
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Steve Oakley <steveo@practicali.com> wrote:
>>
>> welcome to why, despite trying, windoze PC's are a huge problem to fit
>> into production thats been mac based. cross platform modern codecs are
>> simply non-existant once you go thru the check list of - any frame size, any
>> FPS, deep color, alpha, and maybe a couple compressions settings AND
>> affordable when talking about multiple installs and being common enough that
>> you don't have exchange problems. Lets also not forget the other big one,
>> full documentation of the codec so anyone can write an encoder/decoder 20
>> years from now to read the file.
>>
>>  sure you can get a super fast PC cheap loaded, but then when you need to
>> render out to AE you suddenly find your self doing something dopey like have
>> to render a TIFF sequence to have deep color + alpha to edit it into a show
>> being cut on mac. ya you could convert that to ProRes once its on the mac,
>> but that is totally NOT the point.
>>
>> h.264 could actually be the answer if it wasn't for the patent landmines
>> attached to it. it certainly supports everything everyone needs ( HDcam SR
>> is h.264 ), is documented, cross platform... but
>>
>> there is the BBC codec dirac which may fit the bill, but no one has really
>> jumped on it.
>>
>> so here we sit 15 to 20 years into computers doing video and we STILL
>> don't have a common codec w/o issues. beyond pathetic.
>>
>> S
>>
>> On Jul 18, 2013, at 10:58 AM, Jim Curtis <jpcurtis@me.com> wrote:
>>
>> > You're smart to be nervous.  I mastered a lot of projects on Digital
>> > Anarchy's Microcosm.  And I don't want to get fooled again.
>> >
>> > I'm concerned about all proprietary codecs.  Especially from small
>> > companies, and even Avid, since their stock is so volatile, and they seem to
>> > verge on bankruptcy way too much.
>> >
>> > What we all need is an open-source, cross platform, high bit depth,
>> > alpha supported codec.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jul 18, 2013, at 10:38 AM, Louai Abu-Osba wrote:
>> >
>> >> One codec i'm curious about is SheerVideo:
>> >> http://www.bitjazz.com/en/products/sheervideo/
>> >> From the site:
>> >>
>> >> With its direct lossless support for all professional pixel formats
>> >> for digitized film & synthetic imagery (RGB[A]) and video (Y'CbCr[A]),
>> >> both with and without alpha, in high (10-bit) and standard (8-bit)
>> >> precision, full-range and video-range, uniformly sampled (4:4:4[:4])
>> >> and 1:2 chroma-subsampled (4:2:2[:4]); at any resolution, including HD
>> >> (high definition) and SD (standard definition), NTSC, PAL, & SECAM;
>> >> 4:3 & 16:9, progressive and interlaced, SheerVideo is the most
>> >> versatile codec in the world. Support for 16-bit channels is coming
>> >> soon too, to satisfy the needs of the most demanding expert.
>> >>
>> >> It's $100 a license if you buy over two. It sounds great, I'll likely
>> >> test it. There's also a free read only codec. However, I've never come
>> >> across it in professional settings, which always makes me nervous
>> >> regarding it's longevity.
>> >>
>> >> -louai
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Jim Curtis <jpcurtis@me.com> wrote:
>> >>> I'm on Macs.
>> >>>
>> >>> I use ProRes with Quicktime and it's awesome, but it's reportedly not
>> >>> too Windows-friendly, without hacks.
>> >>>
>> >>> DNxHD is 10-bit, 4444, and free, but not versatile, since it's
>> >>> restricted to a set of frame sizes and frame rates.  e.g., you can't make a
>> >>> 300x300 pixel pre-render for use as an element in Ae; you're stuck with PAL,
>> >>> NTSC and HD frame sizes and rates.  I think Avid made it much more
>> >>> complicated than necessary.
>> >>>
>> >>> I discovered one that looks interesting, called "UT Video." It seems
>> >>> to have the right specs:  It's free, alpha support, 4444, but it's only
>> >>> 8-bit, which is a downside.
>> >>>
>> >>> I've looked at Cineform, but it's not been totally stable for me, and
>> >>> it's not free, which means it's not universal.
>> >>>
>> >>> A lot of people recommend QT Photo-JPEG at 92% quality.  No alpha.
>> >>> Not sure of the bit-depth.
>> >>>
>> >>> There's also QT PNG, but I don't use it, because ProRes is more
>> >>> efficient.  It supports alpha.
>> >>>
>> >>> Wasn't Adobe working on a Cinema PNG format?  For BMD cameras?  What's
>> >>> up with that?
>> >>>
>> >>> All these I mentioned aren't lossless, although most are visually
>> >>> lossless.  Some lossless codecs shouldn't even be called "codecs" because
>> >>> there's no compression and decompression taking place.  It's a term akin to
>> >>> "married bachelor."  It's a contradiction.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm interested to read other insights on this as well.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Jul 18, 2013, at 9:54 AM, Louai Abu-Osba wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Hey All,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm generally curious what everyone is using for a lossless codec
>> >>>> these days.
>> >>>> I'm also specifically looking for  a Windows friendly, resolution
>> >>>> independent lossless codec in either an avi or mov container.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -louai
>> >>>>
>> >>>> +---End of message---+
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>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> +---End of message---+
>> >>> To unsubscribe send any message to <ae-list-off@media-motion.tv>
>> >>
>> >> +---End of message---+
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>> >
>> >
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>>
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>
>
>
>
> --
> Animator & Editor
> www.teddygage.com
> Brooklyn