Return-Path: Received: from atl4mhob08.myregisteredsite.com ([209.17.115.46] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 5163992 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 22:50:31 +0200 Received: from atl4webmail13 ([10.30.71.170]) by atl4mhob08.myregisteredsite.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r71L22tu001880 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2013 17:02:02 -0400 Received: from 76.169.86.67 (torno@sydefxink.com [76.169.86.67]) by atl4webmail13 (Netsol 11.2.30) with WEBMAIL id 10213; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 21:02:02 +0000 From: "David Torno" To: "After Effects Mail List" Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Normal Message-ID: X-Mailer: Network Solutions Webmail, Build 11.2.30 X-Originating-IP: [76.169.86.67] X-Forwarded-For: [(null)] X-Authenticated-UID: torno@sydefxink.com Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 21:02:02 +0000 Subject: Re: [AE] ASC_SOP & ASC_SAT values MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hmmm, well that's good to know for us. The news I've been told through a = call a moment ago is that the dailies operator applied the look on set an= d he claims that the CDL data he applied is in the raw clip metadata. The= y then transcoded clips on set, and those went to edit. Color has the raw= media and they are giving us 10bit DPX image sequences. Seems like color= and/or the dailies operator has the info we need, but we can't get it fr= om them. -- David Torno Visual Effects Artist and Supervisor http://www.ghosttownmedia.com david@ghosttownmedia.com O: 213.739.2290 C: 818.391.6060 ------------------------------------------------ http://www.sydefxink.com (main portfolio) http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com (vfx tutorials and AE scripts blog) http://mactex.blogspot.com (free textures blog) -----Original Message----- From: Erik Hansen [mailto:eahansen@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 01:43 PM To: 'After Effects Mail List' Subject: Re: [AE] ASC_SOP & ASC_SAT values F65 has no internal/metadata look/LUT capabilities, yet. The only way to handle this is the hard way - camera reports. The "look" needs to be written down on the camera report, then the dailies operator has to apply= that "look" to the footage. Whether that is actual CDL values, or a creat= ed LUT, etc... The problem with the F65 is you also need to know the color pipeline of h= ow that "look" was created and the footage recorded - F65RAW? SLog2/SGamma? Rec709? What was being monitored to apply the look to? Does that match ho= w the looks were created? Then your color pipeline needs to reflect that as= well - if they feed you 12/16bit DPX from F65RAW and the look was created= via SLog2/Sgamma, then you will need to transform to this, before applyin= g the "look". On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 12:31 PM, David Torno wrote:= > Thanks for the info Erik. They shot on the Sony F65. > > > Those values listed in your example are the default CDL values - no loo= k. > If that is all the CDL info that is present in the Avid BIN, then the C= DL > data was not implemented in the dailies process correctly. > > I'd believe that. They are getting very close to the finger pointing ph= ase > of the conversation. :) > > > David Torno > Visual Effects Artist & Supervisor > http://www.ghosttownmedia.com > O: 213.739.2290 > C: 818.391.6060 > --------------------- > http://www.sydefxink.com > http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com > http://mactex.blogspot.com > > "The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh" > -Charles Field > > On Aug 1, 2013, at 11:45 AM, Erik Hansen wrote: > > This is the standard and the way that is supposed to work. What may be > happening is that there may also be a LUT involved, especially if shoot= ing > on an Alexa - the ARRI LogC-to-Rec709 transform. > > Normally, you should be applying the LUT and CDL information for review= > materials only, finished shots should not have either baked-in. > > The ARRI Look system, is actually based on this - LogC-to-Rec709 > transform, followed by CDL values (possibly Printer Lights too). > > Those values listed in your example are the default CDL values - no loo= k. > If that is all the CDL info that is present in the Avid BIN, then the C= DL > data was not implemented in the dailies process correctly. > > If the DP created CDL values, I would contact them. If perhaps they > created ARRI Look files, you can load them into ARRI's LUT creator and > export LUTs if you like. OCIO can also take CDL values and burn generic= > LUTs. > > A .CDL file is just an XML document of the values in your example. > > Erik > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:21 PM, David Torno wro= te: > >> Thanks very much Bob for that thorough explanation. I love detailed >> oriented people. They seem to be rare in this industry. :) >> >> > Or use Color Finesse within AE which can read ASC CDLs directly, so >> you'd just need to invert the values in the .cdl file, then load it in= . >> If they can get me actual .cdl files that would be great, but I'm not >> holding my breath. Right now, the editor is exporting the CDL data as = part >> of his EDL and nothing more. The dailies had CDL metadata applied by a= guy >> who is no longer on the production and the producers opted to not pay = $2500 >> for actual LUT files. Starting to question my career choices. :) >> >> > With all that said, is the CDL really your "viewing LUT" or is it >> representation of the color correction that's been done, which is the >> normal use for a CDL? >> >> So far from what little info I have managed to procure from the >> production, the DP designed 4-6 CDL's I think. Day and night exterior,= day >> and night interior. I may be wrong on that though. What I think is >> happening (total guess on this) is that the CDL's were applied to the >> dailies, which went to edit. Color got raw footage and had the LUT dat= a but >> won't export without payment. So we in VFX land are getting 10bit DPX = in >> raw color without the CDL info and edit has no clue as to why it's all= not >> WYSIWYG, but I can't say really. >> >> >> David Torno >> Visual Effects Artist & Supervisor >> http://www.ghosttownmedia.com >> O: 213.739.2290 >> C: 818.391.6060 >> --------------------- >> http://www.sydefxink.com >> http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com >> http://mactex.blogspot.com >> >> "The most useless day is that in which we do not laugh" >> -Charles Field >> >> On Jul 31, 2013, at 7:44 PM, "Bob Currier" = >> wrote: >> >> > "SOP" is "Slope, Offset, Power" in ASC CDL speak. We chose different= >> names because many people calculate lift/gamma/gain in different ways.= >> > >> > Slope is gain (multiplication). Offset is lift (addition). Power is >> gamma (y^(1/x)). Saturation is saturation. >> > >> > To reverse it, enter the reciprocal of slope as your "gain." Enter t= he >> reciprocal of power as "gamma." And enter the negative of offset as "l= ift." >> Enter saturation as the reciprocal of the CDL value. >> > >> > The gain setting should work regardless of the color correction app.= >> The gamma value, however, may need to be entered as a reciprocal. The = lift >> value is the hardest to deal with. Many apps adjust gain along with th= e >> lift setting, while the ASC CDL is a pure offset. >> > >> > Or use Color Finesse within AE which can read ASC CDLs directly, so >> you'd just need to invert the values in the .cdl file, then load it in= . >> > >> > With all that said, is the CDL really your "viewing LUT" or is it >> representation of the color correction that's been done, which is the >> normal use for a CDL? >> > >> > ----- >> > Bob Currier rcurrier@synthetic-ap.c= om >> > Synthetic Aperture www.synthetic-ap.com >> > Helping Make Your Work Look Its Best >> > >> > On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 6:41 PM, David Torno wrote= : >> > >> >> Curious question to anyone who has done a lot of CDL (Color Descisi= on >> >> List) work. I'm use to using a generic Cineon Log to Lin for viewin= g >> and >> >> then doing a reverse process with Cineon Lin to Log for final outpu= t. >> >> Not once have I ever gotten a proper LUT on a project in the 13+ ye= ars >> >> I've been doing this work. Sad, very sad. Anyways, someone finally = has >> >> some CDL values (not an actual LUT file mind you) and I can easily,= >> >> manually, input the values into Colorista - Free, but how would I d= o a >> >> reverse of this properly? I'm assuming this CDL is essentially my >> >> "viewing" LUT and I would need it's opposite to reverse it all back= >> with >> >> VFX applied. Did that make sense? Thanks for any insight. >> >> >> >> What the editor exported for me, is an EDL that contained these lin= es >> as >> >> well as other clip data. >> >> >> >> *ASC_SOP (1.0000 1.0000 1.0000)(0.0000 0.0000 0.0000)(1.0000 1.0000= >> 1.0000) >> >> *ASC_SAT 1 >> >> >> >> >> >> The ASC_SOP and ASC_SAT data exists, even though they are default >> >> neutral values. I'm hopeful that he will be able to get the actual = CDL >> >> values that he is seeing in AVID. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> David Torno >> >> Visual Effects Artist and Supervisor >> >> http://www.ghosttownmedia.com >> >> david@ghosttownmedia.com >> >> O: 213.739.2290 >> >> C: 818.391.6060 >> >> ------------------------------------------------ >> >> http://www.sydefxink.com (main portfolio) >> >> http://aeioweyou.blogspot.com (vfx tutorials and AE scripts blog) >> >> http://mactex.blogspot.com (free textures blog) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> +---End of message---+ >> >> To unsubscribe send any message to >> > >> > >> > >> > +---End of message---+ >> > To unsubscribe send any message to >> > >> >> +---End of message---+ >> To unsubscribe send any message to >> > > > > -- > Erik Hansen > 323-316-3731 > eahansen@gmail.com / error1k@me.com > twitter @error1k > error1k.tumblr.com > > -- Erik Hansen 323-316-3731 eahansen@gmail.com / error1k@me.com twitter @error1k error1k.tumblr.com