Return-Path: Received: from mail-qc0-f179.google.com ([209.85.216.179] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5188698 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 15:43:48 +0200 Received: by mail-qc0-f179.google.com with SMTP id n7so667664qcx.38 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 06:56:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=+vJ2FTYqsP7yXw+YBEE5gZ1KqCVGtLfaoSjAb5jNY3I=; b=MYbmLeRhP9GI6k+jerogkr/DheuX3hJyWfr1hpye3igJNB9lxt8+UlaPYZFl9VrzNw J4hhkUsv9ilo/7toksSD86KYuRMHrbosl1OQLvTdoreydc0eEjFA0swmSTJUUB9X+BGf sIEyx9UYLtgUL1sKmgKTx15J268oGzXCZg7mL3gQvM4dnqvuIdQWt/3n8lLpVJ2RuckS Wy6DGe2pRhRSY6G993eyhwoIemTvuAO+TD5TA4E61tpHXfgpHvbqU981ljOxlSuU50nk oQmSTBQUqQnfc+Xt/oeN/A9J9wd6TXjMdELVgv9ZaoDgp/ERwbQVRyh5lYhJ81212r3Z lhhw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.49.37.132 with SMTP id y4mr17024359qej.56.1377525367334; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 06:56:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.116.49 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 06:56:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 09:56:07 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Adobe Premiere From: Teddy Gage To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bd7503a306f8204e4da1e6e --047d7bd7503a306f8204e4da1e6e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 What Robert said. RGB, and uncompressed alpha. Or obviously turn alpha off for footage without it. And yes, dont forget to set it for your proper color depth and framerate. On Sunday, August 25, 2013, Robert Kjettrup wrote: > I always set color to RGB since AE is RGB and most avid editors I know > imports files coming from AE as RGB, so there is just less errors in our > workflow doing that. > I cant either see any difference when importing an QT DNxHD back into AE > if it has been set to either RGB or 709. That might be either because AE > detects the colorspace correctly on import or that there is a 'bug' in the > QT DNxHD codec? > > For alpha I have always rendered as compressed and that has worked good up > untill AE CC. But in the Creative Cloud apps with the new native DNxHD cant > read files with compressed alpha, only uncompressed alpha is showing. > Hopefully this is something that is addressed quickly in a new realease, > because it has caused some confussion in some users here :-( > You can write an compressed alpha with the QT DNxHD codec, it is only the > reading of it that is unsupported in CC. > > And if you are delivereing to Avid MC remember to render as straight alpha > or else you will have an edge halo in Avid. This is one of many areas where > avid is very oldfasioned :-) > > -Robert > Den 25/08/2013 16.21 skrev "Mr. Eric D. Kirk" > >: > > Hello Teddy, > > I've been using the DNxHD since our conversation last week and now realize > there were some settings I had not adjusted in AE. It was defaulted to 59 > fps for one and I'm working on a 29.97 project. Then second - a question. > In the render settings it has a couple other settings I'd like your advice > on. > > 1. For color, should I used the 709 or RGB? > 2. Alpha settings have 3 choices: None, compressed, uncompressed. Which > is best here? > > The only other option was the FPS and resolution size mentioned above. > > Thanks ahead. > > Eric > > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Teddy Gage wrote: > > Eric I often deal with this exact workflow. While we could fill an > encyclopedia discussing codecs and formats, but I'll tell you exactly what > has worked for me in the past. Additionally, there seems to be this > obsession with "lossless" and in my practical experience, unless you need > to maintain the full dynamic range of 4:4:4:4 log-c 32bit color float > video, there is no practical value to encoding to a "lossless" format, > considering bandwidth and storage requirements. There are MANY options that > will preserve a video with 99% integrity, edit flawlessly, and work in > realtime while still saving storage space. > > - As I mentioned, I use DNxHD whenever possible. It looks great, has no > gamma issues or color shift in my experience and has good compression in > near-lossless format. This is what we use at MTV. Additionally, it can be > compressed further into a zip file at nearly 3:1 ratio, meaning a 1.5 gb > clip can be put into a 500mb zip file with zero quality loss for upload. > This is my main workflow. > > - If a studio needs prores output I run the DNxHD back through prores on > my mac mini server / MBP. I would highly recommend if you have the money to > invest in a mini or laptop for this purpose. I have wasted more hours > getting prores output on Pc than my time was worth. Additionally, you can > then handle multiple projects or be ready for curveballs. it would > additionally be a tax writeoff > > - The DNX codec package includes a full res, lossless Avid 4:4:4:4 codec > for 32bit / log footage. I've worked in it on movies, it's great > > - further suggestions, especially if audio is not really an issue: Image > sequences. A tif sequence is virtually lossless. A jpg sequence is great > for high-quality low-storage archival purposes. MJPG is another great low > bandwidth high quality codec for storage in an .mov / .avi. For CG and FX > work I use OpenEXR sequences, which can store TONS of information and > metadata in multiple sequence layers in a single file > > furthermore Brendan Bolles is working on an even better open codec option > with all of these benefits and more. Which I for one am extremely excited > about. > > Brendan - Please make encoding it multi-threaded, or even better, CUDA > supported. My only request... > > whew. Hope that helps somebody. > > > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 8:24 AM, Mr. Eric D. Kirk < > kirkproductions@gmail.com> wrote: > > Teddy, > > Yes, I know they are old. So, what is the recommendation then to maintain > best quality? In the projects I've been getting, I'm receiving ProRes > files, adding VFX and sending back. I've been rendering that Quicktime, > YUV, then converting to ProRes with that little plugin for AE that someone > I believe mentioned on here a while back. I'm trying to ensure they get > back a copy as clean as was received. > > What do you recommend? > > Appreciate it. > > Eric > > > On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 10:57 PM, Teddy Gage wrote: > > you do know those codecs ar > > -- Animator & Editor www.teddygage.com Brooklyn --047d7bd7503a306f8204e4da1e6e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What Robert said. RGB, and uncompressed alpha. Or obviously turn alpha off = for footage without it. And yes, dont forget to set it for your proper colo= r depth and framerate.

On Sunday, August 25, 2013, Robe= rt Kjettrup wrote:

I always set color to RGB sin= ce AE is RGB and most avid editors I know imports files coming from AE as R= GB, so there is just less errors in our workflow doing that.
I cant either see any difference when importing an QT DNxHD back into AE if= it has been set to either RGB or 709. That might be either because AE dete= cts the colorspace correctly on import or that there is a 'bug' in = the QT DNxHD codec?

For alpha I have always rendered as compressed and that has = worked good up untill AE CC. But in the Creative Cloud apps with the new na= tive DNxHD cant read files with compressed alpha, only uncompressed alpha i= s showing.
Hopefully this is something that is addressed quickly in a new realease, be= cause it has caused some confussion in some users here :-(
You can write an compressed alpha with the QT DNxHD codec, it is only the r= eading of it that is unsupported in CC.

And if you are delivereing to Avid MC remember to render as = straight alpha or else you will have an edge halo in Avid. This is one of m= any areas where avid is very oldfasioned :-)

-Robert

Den 25/08/2013 16.21 skrev "Mr. Eric D. Kir= k" <kirkproductions@gmail.com>:
Hello Teddy,

I've been using the DN= xHD since our conversation last week and now realize there were some settin= gs I had not adjusted in AE. =A0It was defaulted to 59 fps for one and I= 9;m working on a 29.97 project. =A0Then second - a question. =A0In the rend= er settings it has a couple other settings I'd like your advice on.

1. =A0For color, should I used the 709 or RGB?
2. =A0Alpha settings have 3 choices: None, compressed, uncompressed. =A0W= hich is best here?

The only other option was the F= PS and resolution size mentioned above.

Thanks ahead.

Eric
=


On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Teddy Gage <teddygage@gmail.com> wrote:
Eric I often deal with t= his exact workflow. While we could fill an encyclopedia discussing codecs a= nd formats, but I'll tell you exactly what has worked for me in the pas= t. Additionally, there seems to be this obsession with "lossless"= and in my practical experience, unless you need to maintain the full dynam= ic range of 4:4:4:4 log-c 32bit color float video, there is no practical va= lue to encoding to a "lossless" format, considering bandwidth and= storage requirements. There are MANY options that will preserve a video wi= th 99% integrity, edit flawlessly, and work in realtime while still saving = storage space.

- As I mentioned, I use DNxHD whenever possible. It looks great, = has no gamma issues or color shift in my experience and has good compressio= n in near-lossless format. This is what we use at MTV. Additionally, it can= be compressed further into a zip file at nearly 3:1 ratio, meaning a 1.5 g= b clip can be put into a 500mb zip file with zero quality loss for upload. = This is my main workflow.

- If a studio needs prores output I run the DNxHD back through pr= ores on my mac mini server / MBP. I would highly recommend if you have the = money to invest in a mini or laptop for this purpose. I have wasted more ho= urs getting prores output on Pc than my time was worth. Additionally, you c= an then handle multiple projects or be ready for curveballs. it would addit= ionally be a tax writeoff

- The DNX codec package includes a full res, lossless Avid 4:4:4:= 4 codec for 32bit / log footage. I've worked in it on movies, it's = great

- further suggestions, especially if audio is not really= an issue: Image sequences. A tif sequence is virtually lossless. A jpg seq= uence is great for high-quality low-storage archival purposes. MJPG is anot= her great low bandwidth high quality codec for storage in an .mov / .avi. F= or CG and FX work I use OpenEXR sequences, which can store TONS of informat= ion and metadata in multiple sequence layers in a single file

furthermore Brendan Bolles is working on an even better open codec opti= on with all of these benefits and more. Which I for one am extremely excite= d about.

Brendan - Please make encoding it multi-threaded, or even = better, CUDA supported. My only request...

whew. Hope that helps somebody.

=


On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 8:24 AM, = Mr. Eric D. Kirk <kirkproductions@gmail.com>= wrote:
Teddy,
=A0
Yes, I know t= hey are old.=A0 So, what is the recommendation then to maintain best qualit= y?=A0 In the projects I've been getting, I'm receiving ProRes files= , adding VFX and sending back.=A0 I've been rendering that Quicktime, Y= UV, then converting to ProRes with that little plugin for AE that someone I= believe mentioned on here a while back.=A0 I'm trying to ensure they g= et back a copy as clean as was received.
=A0
What do you recommend?
=A0
Appreciat= e it.
=A0
Eric


On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 10:57 PM, Teddy Gage <teddygage@gmail.com> wrote:
you do know those codecs ar


--
Animator &= Editor
www.teddygage.com=
Brooklyn

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