Return-Path: Received: from mail-ie0-f174.google.com ([209.85.223.174] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5188711 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 15:51:16 +0200 Received: by mail-ie0-f174.google.com with SMTP id k14so4850187iea.5 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 07:03:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=SK0JyKY3acEceu6lMC+HZUhq+Jim0JwSXgTGW3c4fso=; b=EVkOCtDFNZ/UVxLyuoH0l/pcGFqN+mNEyKVdSDxWZ2H9HxN0DDv8kJ2OYwpzPvTd6s B7tV2nYfNBbgGyznAmoszw6OPB1oyJUrncZ3mrqGEh0e98XeQwLWeML3dd3/0bCChhoE zZkPiSMsMBeg+iSHBIX/U29+lgex/JZFW0zaMmzn8gGgJWOx1P2Ye3y87t+xlAVKHvGo QKOz82HXODHzOuOQtAm3u3QzpXW9L1D8ONsfm51o73fe7j4mWQMixDv+Gy0XkhMweX6c gAAC9Mw0XG7yzZmF6ZDLlAOZFd9YdFyz+mK/4nKApH4nyQP7ZwlcVMsJ+tZZJCOglCw3 vtuw== X-Received: by 10.50.130.106 with SMTP id od10mr6761200igb.1.1377525814890; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 07:03:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.168.105 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Aug 2013 07:03:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: "Mr. Eric D. Kirk" Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 10:03:13 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] Adobe Premiere To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b414560dd996104e4da3887 --047d7b414560dd996104e4da3887 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 oops.."now will try uncompressed" On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Mr. Eric D. Kirk < kirkproductions@gmail.com> wrote: > Appreciate the great feedback. > > I defaulted to RGB anyway and not will try the uncompressed as well. > Haven't gone final on anything so timing is great. > > Thanks! > > Eric > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Teddy Gage wrote: > >> What Robert said. RGB, and uncompressed alpha. Or obviously turn alpha >> off for footage without it. And yes, dont forget to set it for your proper >> color depth and framerate. >> >> On Sunday, August 25, 2013, Robert Kjettrup wrote: >> >>> I always set color to RGB since AE is RGB and most avid editors I know >>> imports files coming from AE as RGB, so there is just less errors in our >>> workflow doing that. >>> I cant either see any difference when importing an QT DNxHD back into AE >>> if it has been set to either RGB or 709. That might be either because AE >>> detects the colorspace correctly on import or that there is a 'bug' in the >>> QT DNxHD codec? >>> >>> For alpha I have always rendered as compressed and that has worked good >>> up untill AE CC. But in the Creative Cloud apps with the new native DNxHD >>> cant read files with compressed alpha, only uncompressed alpha is showing. >>> Hopefully this is something that is addressed quickly in a new realease, >>> because it has caused some confussion in some users here :-( >>> You can write an compressed alpha with the QT DNxHD codec, it is only >>> the reading of it that is unsupported in CC. >>> >>> And if you are delivereing to Avid MC remember to render as straight >>> alpha or else you will have an edge halo in Avid. This is one of many areas >>> where avid is very oldfasioned :-) >>> >>> -Robert >>> Den 25/08/2013 16.21 skrev "Mr. Eric D. Kirk" < >>> kirkproductions@gmail.com>: >>> >>> Hello Teddy, >>> >>> I've been using the DNxHD since our conversation last week and now >>> realize there were some settings I had not adjusted in AE. It was >>> defaulted to 59 fps for one and I'm working on a 29.97 project. Then >>> second - a question. In the render settings it has a couple other settings >>> I'd like your advice on. >>> >>> 1. For color, should I used the 709 or RGB? >>> 2. Alpha settings have 3 choices: None, compressed, uncompressed. >>> Which is best here? >>> >>> The only other option was the FPS and resolution size mentioned above. >>> >>> Thanks ahead. >>> >>> Eric >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Teddy Gage wrote: >>> >>> Eric I often deal with this exact workflow. While we could fill an >>> encyclopedia discussing codecs and formats, but I'll tell you exactly what >>> has worked for me in the past. Additionally, there seems to be this >>> obsession with "lossless" and in my practical experience, unless you need >>> to maintain the full dynamic range of 4:4:4:4 log-c 32bit color float >>> video, there is no practical value to encoding to a "lossless" format, >>> considering bandwidth and storage requirements. There are MANY options that >>> will preserve a video with 99% integrity, edit flawlessly, and work in >>> realtime while still saving storage space. >>> >>> - As I mentioned, I use DNxHD whenever possible. It looks great, has no >>> gamma issues or color shift in my experience and has good compression in >>> near-lossless format. This is what we use at MTV. Additionally, it can be >>> compressed further into a zip file at nearly 3:1 ratio, meaning a 1.5 gb >>> clip can be put into a 500mb zip file with zero quality loss for upload. >>> This is my main workflow. >>> >>> - If a studio needs prores output I run the DNxHD back through prores on >>> my mac mini server / MBP. I would highly recommend if you have the money to >>> invest in a mini or laptop for this purpose. I have wasted more hours >>> getting prores output on Pc than my time was worth. Additionally, you can >>> then handle multiple projects or be ready for curveballs. it would >>> additionally be a tax writeoff >>> >>> - The DNX codec package includes a full res, lossless Avid 4:4:4:4 codec >>> for 32bit / log footage. I've worked in it on movies, it's great >>> >>> - further suggestions, especially if audio is not really an issue: Image >>> sequences. A tif sequence is virtually lossless. A jpg sequence is great >>> for high-quality low-storage archival purposes. MJPG is another great low >>> bandwidth high quality codec for storage in an .mov / .avi. For CG and FX >>> work I use OpenEXR sequences, which can store TONS of information and >>> metadata in multiple sequence layers in a single file >>> >>> furthermore Brendan Bolles is working on an even better open codec >>> option with all of these benefits and more. Which I for one am extremely >>> excited about. >>> >>> Brendan - Please make encoding it multi-threaded, or even better, CUDA >>> supported. My only request... >>> >>> whew. Hope that helps somebody. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 8:24 AM, Mr. Eric D. Kirk < >>> kirkproductions@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Teddy, >>> >>> Yes, I know they are old. So, what is the recommendation then to >>> maintain best quality? In the projects I've been getting, I'm receiving >>> ProRes files, adding VFX and sending back. I've been rendering that >>> Quicktime, YUV, then converting to ProRes with that little plugin for AE >>> that someone I believe mentioned on here a while back. I'm trying to >>> ensure they get back a copy as clean as was received. >>> >>> What do you recommend? >>> >>> Appreciate it. >>> >>> Eric >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 10:57 PM, Teddy Gage wrote: >>> >>> you do know those codecs ar >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Animator & Editor >> www.teddygage.com >> Brooklyn >> >> > > > -- > *Eric D. Kirk | **Kirk Productions* > *The Night Visitor | VFX* > *443.206.1347 > www.kirkproductions.com > kirkproductions@gmail.com* > *IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3351363/* > * * > -- *Eric D. Kirk | **Kirk Productions* *The Night Visitor | VFX* *443.206.1347 www.kirkproductions.com kirkproductions@gmail.com* *IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3351363/* * * --047d7b414560dd996104e4da3887 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
oops.."now will try uncompressed"


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 a= t 10:00 AM, Mr. Eric D. Kirk <kirkproductions@gmail.com> wrote:
Appreciate the great f= eedback.
=A0
I defaulted to RGB anyway and not will try= the uncompressed as well.=A0 Haven't gone final on anything so timing = is great.
=A0
Thanks!
=A0
Eric


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Teddy Gage <teddy= gage@gmail.com> wrote:
What Robert said. RGB, and uncompressed alpha. Or obviousl= y turn alpha off for footage without it. And yes, dont forget to set it for= your proper color depth and framerate.

On Sunday, August 25, 2013, Robert Kjettrup wrote:

I always set color to RGB since AE is RGB a= nd most avid editors I know imports files coming from AE as RGB, so there i= s just less errors in our workflow doing that.
I cant either see any difference when importing an QT DNxHD back into AE if= it has been set to either RGB or 709. That might be either because AE dete= cts the colorspace correctly on import or that there is a 'bug' in = the QT DNxHD codec?

For alpha I have always rendered as compressed and that has = worked good up untill AE CC. But in the Creative Cloud apps with the new na= tive DNxHD cant read files with compressed alpha, only uncompressed alpha i= s showing.
Hopefully this is something that is addressed quickly in a new realease, be= cause it has caused some confussion in some users here :-(
You can write an compressed alpha with the QT DNxHD codec, it is only the r= eading of it that is unsupported in CC.

And if you are delivereing to Avid MC remember to render as = straight alpha or else you will have an edge halo in Avid. This is one of m= any areas where avid is very oldfasioned :-)

-Robert

Den 25/08/2013 16.21 skrev "Mr. Eric D. Kir= k" <kirkproductions@gmail.com>:
Hello Teddy,

I've been using the DN= xHD since our conversation last week and now realize there were some settin= gs I had not adjusted in AE. =A0It was defaulted to 59 fps for one and I= 9;m working on a 29.97 project. =A0Then second - a question. =A0In the rend= er settings it has a couple other settings I'd like your advice on.

1. =A0For color, should I used the 709 or RGB?
2. =A0Alpha settings have 3 choices: None, compressed, uncompressed. =A0W= hich is best here?

The only other option was the F= PS and resolution size mentioned above.

Thanks ahead.

Eric
=


On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Teddy Gage <teddygage@gmail.com> wrote:
Eric I often deal with this exact work= flow. While we could fill an encyclopedia discussing codecs and formats, bu= t I'll tell you exactly what has worked for me in the past. Additionall= y, there seems to be this obsession with "lossless" and in my pra= ctical experience, unless you need to maintain the full dynamic range of 4:= 4:4:4 log-c 32bit color float video, there is no practical value to encodin= g to a "lossless" format, considering bandwidth and storage requi= rements. There are MANY options that will preserve a video with 99% integri= ty, edit flawlessly, and work in realtime while still saving storage space.=

- As I mentioned, I use DNxHD whenever possible. It looks great, = has no gamma issues or color shift in my experience and has good compressio= n in near-lossless format. This is what we use at MTV. Additionally, it can= be compressed further into a zip file at nearly 3:1 ratio, meaning a 1.5 g= b clip can be put into a 500mb zip file with zero quality loss for upload. = This is my main workflow.

- If a studio needs prores output I run the DNxHD back through pr= ores on my mac mini server / MBP. I would highly recommend if you have the = money to invest in a mini or laptop for this purpose. I have wasted more ho= urs getting prores output on Pc than my time was worth. Additionally, you c= an then handle multiple projects or be ready for curveballs. it would addit= ionally be a tax writeoff

- The DNX codec package includes a full res, lossless Avid 4:4:4:= 4 codec for 32bit / log footage. I've worked in it on movies, it's = great

- further suggestions, especially if audio is not really= an issue: Image sequences. A tif sequence is virtually lossless. A jpg seq= uence is great for high-quality low-storage archival purposes. MJPG is anot= her great low bandwidth high quality codec for storage in an .mov / .avi. F= or CG and FX work I use OpenEXR sequences, which can store TONS of informat= ion and metadata in multiple sequence layers in a single file

furthermore Brendan Bolles is working on an even better open codec opti= on with all of these benefits and more. Which I for one am extremely excite= d about.

Brendan - Please make encoding it multi-threaded, or even = better, CUDA supported. My only request...

whew. Hope that helps somebody.

=


On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 8:24 AM, = Mr. Eric D. Kirk <kirkproductions@gmail.com>= wrote:
Teddy,
=A0
Yes, I know they are old.= =A0 So, what is the recommendation then to maintain best quality?=A0 In the= projects I've been getting, I'm receiving ProRes files, adding VFX= and sending back.=A0 I've been rendering that Quicktime, YUV, then con= verting to ProRes with that little plugin for AE that someone I believe men= tioned on here a while back.=A0 I'm trying to ensure they get back a co= py as clean as was received.
=A0
What do you recommend?
=A0
Appreciat= e it.
=A0
Eric


On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 10:57 PM, Teddy Gage <teddygage@gmail.com> wrote:
you do know those codecs ar
=


--
Animator & Editor
www.ted= dygage.com
Brooklyn




--
Eric D. Kirk |= =A0Kirk Productions



--
Eric D. Kirk |= =A0Kirk Productions
--047d7b414560dd996104e4da3887--