Return-Path: Received: from mail-vc0-f172.google.com ([209.85.220.172] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5285936 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 18:31:03 +0100 Received: by mail-vc0-f172.google.com with SMTP id ij19so938275vcb.17 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 09:32:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=Q4idl6GHyAZDZdIEyCsBjg2STFDt5/01wZ59xs7Y1cs=; b=nGReGqI0aQvXCS9qY21zP8psrM0pdcl/MrTtUVVBM8ar5xBCEPACkBsWH3NnFM5wI+ eWVBPUxzzY2E4L9P3TVueZHE+7vF+NHPXckyREyceYOpvszyvB+6pMAAq2d5Ls2lrovE T7L1G6qgCRjtkDvGEmOeyLsWeS+CSNgOxwyT43JZrNBsn0axX6k/YeSLAL4CPhPKfOcG JGxPaF9YPFu3VcI5oqFpYw2nDw0JKkA7d8VoiJ5rQ1YmBFxO79EmLGdKNN/9hCrTaDZr kxDccZ5U22HFLJWvvAwCd9j7Y1lxuJmPDHo6sWpYW4gmtq6bAZ2MMn+OMk2drrW5vWEY qDxA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.230.202 with SMTP id ta10mr809058vdc.41.1384450372238; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 09:32:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.49.41 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 09:32:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 09:32:52 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] OT Contracts From: Rick Gerard To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0111d926a585f804eb267840 --089e0111d926a585f804eb267840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A two day job with a net due in 45 .... RUN unless you are completely broke or this job is going to set you up with a couple of years of guaranteed work and a severe penalty to them if they break the agreement. Can you go to a restaurant, enjoy the meal and then send them a check in 45 days? Chances are more than 99% that this client is going to be a grinder that will turn your 2 day job in to a two week ordeal with changes and re-dos and that they will then complain about your work to everyone they meet. It's not worth it. When you freelance, unless you want to be nothing more than a day laborer, remember that you are in charge. If they are not willing to meet you on your reasonable terms you will a slave to their every whim. In most states a sub contractor can, ans should ask for a deposit from a new client. The limit is usually something like 10% up to a maximum of $1,000. The guy putting in your new lawn is going to ask for that. You should too unless it's a government agency, which seldom give deposits, or a major corporation with an established and published procurement procedure= . Only when you get these details worked out should you move to the contract phase and you should be the one submitting it. Things are different if it is a network from a job posting, but if you seek find the client or are referred to the client, it should be your contract, not theirs. I've been at the film business since 1969. My wife tells me I shouldn't tell people that because they will think I'm an old man. In those 43 years only 10 of them were as a contract employee. I have had thousands of contracts with thousands of clients. Not one with a payment date longer than 15 days was ever paid on time, paid in full, or a pleasure to work on with repeat business. Watch out. On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 5:28 PM, patrick Siemer wrote: > I never had a lawyer look at my contracts, but I always read every word. > A lawyer friend once told me to cross out anything in the contract i did > not like and then initial it. Add what you want. > Then send it back,. If they want to work ith you they will change it. > no client ever had a problem with that. > good luck! > -patrick > On Nov 13, 2013, at 2:22 PM, Phil Spitler wrote: > > I never did contracts when I was freelance. > > Phil > > *Phil Spitler* | Creative Technologist | *Bonfire Labs* | t : > 415.394.8200 m : 415.571.3139 > > Website | Facebook > | LinkedIn > > On Nov 13, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Steve Oakley wrote: > > They are all different. Auto insurance is a new one. Another one is they > try to force you to carry worker's comp on yourself. It got bad enough th= at > I formed a LLC which has stopped most of the non-sense. Then there are > pages on s)xual harassment, toxic chemicals in the workplace, safety > procedures & PPE. just an unending pile of waste as the lawyer's try to > keep their jobs. the last time a LA prod co pulled this and made me fill > out the paperwork 3 times, I charged them 1hr for it. you want me to wast= e > my time filling out mostly needless junk, pay me ! > > They also didn't like it that I had changed some text on the contract, > mainly around if there was a dispute, it will be settled locally here, no= t > in LA. > > S > > On Nov 13, 2013, at 4:04 PM, Jim Curtis wrote: > > I was presented one that wanted proof of auto insurance, too. I did park > in their garage. So, that didn't bother me much. > > > But, they also wanted me to carry production insurance, when all I was > doing was editing and graphics on their computer systems. That was one > that I was able to successfully strike through, as I explained that might > be applicable to shooters with lights and electric and heavy equipment, b= ut > not me. > > > The contracts are meant to favor them for every possible contingency for > liability. That's what lawyers do. They're not designed to be fair. > > > BTW, I just sub-contracted a project for a very high profile animation > company=85 something to the effect of Sleepshop Spielman Katzenjammer Ghe= ko. > I didn't sign squat, and they FTP-ed me HD clips from their feature film= s. > > > > > > On Nov 13, 2013, at 3:47 PM, Rob Birnholz > wrote: > > > I am awaiting (this week) a contract with a major local entertainment > company. Aside from my particulars (name, address, tax numbers, etc) I ha= d > to supply proof of auto liability insurance in case I have an accident > while on their property. I don't object, but that was a new one for me. > > > My last contract with this company included six pages of what I couldn't > do with any work I created for them (basically show it to anyone) or > exactly how I was (or rather wasn't) allowed to speak their name in > connection with my own business. > > > But in practice there is a gray area=85 If I followed their last deal to = the > letter I wouldn't have gotten this new deal (as in "My demo reel includes > snippets of what I created for your company in the past. Please take > notice!"). > > > Rob Birnholz > > ABSOLUTE MOTION GRAPHICS, Inc. > > -digital design and post- > > Longwood, Florida > > www.absolutemotiongraphics.com > > > The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the > > cheese. > > > On Nov 13, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Jim Curtis wrote: > > > Some companies want you to indemnify them if you get hurt on their > premises or locations they pay you to work. > > > > +---End of message---+ > To unsubscribe send any message to > > > --=20 Rick Gerard --089e0111d926a585f804eb267840 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A two day job with a net due in 45 ...= . RUN unless you are completely broke or this job is going to set you up wi= th a couple of years of guaranteed work and a severe penalty to them if the= y break the agreement. Can you go to a restaurant, enjoy the meal and then = send them a check in 45 days? Chances are more than 99% that this client is= going to be a grinder that will turn your 2 day job in to a two week ordea= l with changes and re-dos and that they will then complain about your work = to everyone they meet. It's not worth it.

When you freelance, unless you want to be nothing more than a day= laborer, remember that you are in charge. If they are not willing to meet = you on your reasonable terms you will a slave to their every whim.

In most states a sub contractor can, ans should ask for a deposit fro= m a new client. The limit is usually something like 10% up to a maximum of = $1,000. The guy putting in your new lawn is going to ask for that. You shou= ld too unless it's a government agency, which seldom give deposits, or = a major corporation with an established and published procurement procedure= .

Only when you get these details worked out should you move to the= contract phase and you should be the one submitting it. Things are differe= nt if it is a network from a job posting, but if you seek find the client o= r are referred to the client, it should be your contract, not theirs.

I've been at the film business since 1969. My wife tells me I= shouldn't tell people that because they will think I'm an old man.= In those 43 years only 10 of them were as a contract employee. I have had = thousands of contracts with thousands of clients. Not one with a payment da= te longer than 15 days was ever paid on time, paid in full, or a pleasure t= o work on with repeat business. Watch out.


On Wed,= Nov 13, 2013 at 5:28 PM, patrick Siemer <siemer@gmail.com> w= rote:
I never had a lawyer look at my contracts, but I alw= ays read every word. =A0A lawyer friend once told me to cross out anything = in the contract i did not like and then initial it. Add what you want.
Then send it back,. =A0If they want to work = ith you they will change it.
no client ever had a problem with that.
good luck!
-patrick
<= div style=3D"font-size:21px">On Nov 13, 2013, at 2:22 PM, Phil Spitler <= phil@bonfirelabs.= com> wrote:

I never did contracts when I was freelance.<= /span>

Phil

= Phil Spitler= =A0 |=A0 Creative Technologist =A0 |=A0=A0Bonfire Labs= =A0 |=A0 t : 415.394.8200=A0 m : 415.571.3139

Website=A0|=A0Face= book=A0|=A0LinkedIn

On Nov 13, = 2013, at 2:17 PM, Steve Oakley wrote:

They are all differen= t. Auto insurance is a new one. Another one is they try to force you to car= ry worker's comp on yourself. It got bad enough that I formed a LLC whi= ch has stopped most of the non-sense. Then there are pages on s)xual harass= ment, toxic chemicals in the workplace, safety procedures & PPE. just a= n unending pile of waste as the lawyer's try to keep their jobs. the la= st time a LA prod co pulled this and made me fill out the paperwork 3 times= , I charged them 1hr for it. you want me to waste my time filling out mostl= y needless junk, pay me !

They also didn&= #39;t like it that I had changed some text on the contract, mainly a= round if there was a dispute, it will be settled locally here, not in LA.
S

On Nov 13, 2013, at 4:04 PM, Jim Curtis <jpcurtis@me.com> wrote:

I was presented one that wanted proof of auto insurance, too. =A0I did par= k in their garage. =A0So, that didn't bother me much.

But, they also wanted me to carry production insurance, when all I w= as doing was editing and graphics on their computer systems. =A0That was on= e that I was able to successfully strike through, as I explained that might= be applicable to shooters with lights and electric and heavy equipment, bu= t not me.

The contracts are meant to favor them for every possible contingency= for liability. =A0That's what lawyers do. =A0They're not designed = to be fair.

BTW, I just sub-contracted a project for a very high profile animati= on company=85 something to the effect of Sleepshop Spielman Katzenjammer Gh= eko. =A0I didn't sign squat, and they FTP-ed me HD clips from their fea= ture films.




On Nov 13, 201= 3, at 3:47 PM, Rob Birnholz <a= bsolutemotion@birnholz.com> wrote:

I am awaiting (this week) a contract with = a major local entertainment company. Aside from my particulars (name, addre= ss, tax numbers, etc) I had to supply proof of auto liability insurance in = case I have an accident while on their property. I don't object, but th= at was a new one for me.

My last contract with this company included six pages of what I c= ouldn't do with any work I created for them (basically show it to anyon= e) or exactly how I was (or rather wasn't) allowed to speak their name = in connection with my own business.

But in practice there is a gray area=85 If I followed their last = deal to the letter I wouldn't have gotten this new deal (as in "My= demo reel includes snippets of what I created for your company in the past= . Please take notice!").

Rob Birnholz
ABSOLUTE MOTION GRAPHICS, Inc.
-digital design and post-
Longwo= od, Florida
www.absolutemotiongraphics= .com

The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the
cheese.

On Nov 13, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Jim Curtis wrote:

Some companies want you to indemnify them if you get hurt on their premises= or locations they pay you to work.


+---End of message---+
To unsubscribe send any message to <= ;ae-list-off@media-motion.tv&= gt;




--
Rick Gerard --089e0111d926a585f804eb267840--