Return-Path: Received: from col0-omc2-s2.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.76] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 5316467 for ae-list@media-motion.tv; Fri, 13 Dec 2013 12:48:39 +0100 Received: from COL129-W55 ([65.55.34.72]) by col0-omc2-s2.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 13 Dec 2013 03:51:25 -0800 X-TMN: [FmeyhTW8E+u5D0sPMHGc5cffZnoBCpNz] X-Originating-Email: [colsebas@hotmail.com] Message-ID: Return-Path: colsebas@hotmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_91dd9a0b-29bc-49ea-a98d-f15774b64063_" From: Frederich Munch To: After Effects Mail List Subject: RE: [AE] Sluggish performance with many nulls and lights Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 11:51:24 +0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2013 11:51:25.0249 (UTC) FILETIME=[A67D9B10:01CEF7F9] --_91dd9a0b-29bc-49ea-a98d-f15774b64063_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Turned off keyframe-motion-trails? To: AE-List@media-motion.tv From: chris@chriszwar.com Date: Fri=2C 13 Dec 2013 21:42:16 +1100 Subject: Re: [AE] Sluggish performance with many nulls and lights On 11/12/2013=2C at 5:53 PM=2C adam mercado wrote:Chris= =2C did you ever get to the bottom of this? Did your experience improve? Ju= st curious No. I am fairly certain it's a bug / unfortunate behaviour with the cachin= g system introduced with CS6- but that's just a gut feeling=2C no hard evid= ence. =20 I should try it with CS5 and see what the difference it. I've used CS5 for= years and have worked with comps that have over 1000 layers in them. I'm = used to importing scenes from 3D apps with lots of nulls. It's only since = using CS6 that I've seen this behaviour.I always feel reluctant to submit b= ug reports when I'm not using the current release. I know that Todd has sa= id that CC fixed a lot of bugs=2C but I don't have a copy to compare. I've been working with a few other comps that have lots of layers (roughly = 200) and expressions and haven't had as many issues with them. If I find some spare time - very unlikely - I will experiment some more bec= ause it's very frustrating when it happens! -Chris=20 On Dec 3=2C 2013=2C at 1:25 PM=2C pixelbot@comcast.net wrote:are these null= s all different solids - so that you have 200 solids or have you tried chan= ging all the different nulls to one solid? just a thought. Timt On Tuesday=2C December 3=2C 2013 at 3:17 AM=2C Chris Zw= ar wrote: Had a really slow tedious day = today and am looking for suggestions. After Effects (CS6) just gets really= sluggish and unresponsive when working with big projects. Sometimes it ca= n sit there for minutes=2C doing nothing=2C except spinning the stupid beac= h ball every few seconds. For example - today I imported a maya scene. 30 seconds long=2C 1 camera a= nd about 200 nulls. The nulls are static=2C so only the camera has keyfram= es. After Effects just sits there and stops=2C every mouse click prompting= a beach ball that spins for a few seconds. Simply opening the file=2C sel= ecting a few nulls and complying them into a new composition took about 40 = minutes - it should have taken a few seconds. Despite the tedium I tried several things to fix the dreadful performance a= nd nothing worked. The obvious things like quitting and reopening=2C and then trying rebooting= =2C did nothing. Caps lock makes no difference - even though the scene is = only nulls so there's nothing to preview anyway. Turning the layer visibil= ity on and off also made no difference. I emptied all the caches in case i= t was a disk fragmentation issue. Ram didn't seem to be a problem=2C with = the activity monitor reporting I had 3 gig free. I tried toggling the hard= ware acceleration on and off. Even turning off the visibility of the nulls= in the view options made no difference. After Effects just sat there and = beach balled constantly=2C even when I wasn't doing anything. I converted the nulls to lights using David's script and the problem was th= e same - worse even. This is very difficult to understand. There is nothing to render - no laye= rs except nulls. All layers are turned off. The nulls are static and don'= t have keyframes. There are no hidden gotchas like motion blur=2C frame bl= ending or depth of field. No plugins. Just 200 nulls and a camera and eve= rything grinds to a halt. Even turning off the visibility of the lights an= d nulls makes no difference - so even with nothing to display After Effects= is just sitting there and beach balling=2C taking a minute to respond to e= ach mouse click. If I delete most of the nulls / lights then performance will suddenly impro= ve. It's like there's a hidden threshold for the number of nulls and light= s After Effects can handle=2C and once you go over it the performance falls= off a cliff. I have worked on compositions with almost 2000 layers - all = with masks=2C effects and expressions applied=2C so I don't understand why = a few nulls or some lights can practically break the application... Any insight? Or even sympathy from those who've experienced similar things= ? It's driving me insane=85 -Chris = --_91dd9a0b-29bc-49ea-a98d-f15774b64063_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Turned off keyframe-motion-trail= s?

To: AE-List@media-motion.tv
From:= chris@chriszwar.com
Date: Fri=2C 13 Dec 2013 21:42:16 +1100
Subject:= Re: [AE] Sluggish performance with many nulls and lights

= On 11/12/2013=2C at 5:53 PM=2C adam mercado <=3Badam@influxx.com>=3B wrote:
Chris=2C did you ever get to the bottom of this? = Did your experience improve? Just curious

=
No.  =3BI am fairly certain it's a bug / unfortunate behaviour wit= h the caching system introduced with CS6- but that's just a gut feeling=2C = no hard evidence.  =3B

I should try it with CS= 5 and see what the difference it.  =3BI've used CS5 for years and have = worked with comps that have over 1000 layers in them.  =3BI'm used to i= mporting scenes from 3D apps with lots of nulls.  =3BIt's only since us= ing CS6 that I've seen this behaviour.
I always feel reluctant to= submit bug reports when I'm not using the current release.  =3BI know = that Todd has said that CC fixed a lot of bugs=2C but I don't have a copy t= o compare.

I've been working with a few other comp= s that have lots of layers (roughly 200) and expressions and haven't had as= many issues with them.

If I find some spare time = - very unlikely - I will experiment some more because it's very frustrating= when it happens!


-Chris

On Dec 3=2C 2013=2C at 1:25= PM=2C pixelbot@comcast.net wro= te:

are these nulls all differe= nt solids - so that you have 200 solids or have you tried changing all the = different nulls to one solid? just a thought.

Timt=
=

On Tuesday=2C Dece= mber 3=2C 2013 at 3:17 AM=2C Chris Zwar wrote:

Had a really slow tedious day today and= am looking for suggestions. After Effects (CS6) just gets really sluggish= and unresponsive when working with big projects. Sometimes it can sit the= re for minutes=2C doing nothing=2C except spinning the stupid beach ball ev= ery few seconds.

For example - today I imported a = maya scene. 30 seconds long=2C 1 camera and about 200 nulls. The nulls ar= e static=2C so only the camera has keyframes. After Effects just sits ther= e and stops=2C every mouse click prompting a beach ball that spins for a fe= w seconds. Simply opening the file=2C selecting a few nulls and complying = them into a new composition took about 40 minutes - it should have taken a = few seconds.

Despite the tedium I tried several th= ings to fix the dreadful performance and nothing worked.

The obvious things like quitting and reopening=2C and then trying re= booting=2C did nothing. Caps lock makes no difference - even though the sc= ene is only nulls so there's nothing to preview anyway. Turning the layer = visibility on and off also made no difference. I emptied all the caches in= case it was a disk fragmentation issue. Ram didn't seem to be a problem= =2C with the activity monitor reporting I had 3 gig free. I tried toggling= the hardware acceleration on and off. Even turning off the visibility of = the nulls in the view options made no difference. After Effects just sat t= here and beach balled constantly=2C even when I wasn't doing anything.

I converted the nulls to lights using David's script a= nd the problem was the same - worse even.

This is = very difficult to understand. There is nothing to render - no layers excep= t nulls. All layers are turned off. The nulls are static and don't have k= eyframes. There are no hidden gotchas like motion blur=2C frame blending o= r depth of field. No plugins. Just 200 nulls and a camera and everything = grinds to a halt. Even turning off the visibility of the lights and nulls = makes no difference - so even with nothing to display After Effects is just= sitting there and beach balling=2C taking a minute to respond to each mous= e click.

If I delete most of the nulls / lights th= en performance will suddenly improve. It's like there's a hidden threshold= for the number of nulls and lights After Effects can handle=2C and once yo= u go over it the performance falls off a cliff. I have worked on compositi= ons with almost 2000 layers - all with masks=2C effects and expressions app= lied=2C so I don't understand why a few nulls or some lights can practicall= y break the application...

Any insight? Or even s= ympathy from those who've experienced similar things? It's driving me insa= ne=85


-Chris


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