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[174.25.106.112]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id om6sm6746238pbc.43.2013.12.13.11.15.03 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 13 Dec 2013 11:15:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 11:15:04 -0800 From: "Satya G Meka (Lists)" To: After Effects Mail List Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [AE] Sluggish performance with many nulls and lights X-Mailer: sparrow 1.6.4 (build 1178) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="52ab5cb8_2ae8944a_4cd3" --52ab5cb8_2ae8944a_4cd3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hello =46ritz, It is always much better performance wise to use lights instead of nulls = for Plexus, especially in CS6. You can use the Null Swapper (http://provi= deocoalition.com/pvcexclusive/story/null=5Fswapper=5F-=5Fplexus=5Fparticu= lar=5Futility=5Fscript) script for that. regards, Satya. On =46riday, December 13, 2013 at 6:22 AM, =46ritz Gnad wrote: > Hi Chris, > have the same impression. I was working on a project that involved 25 (= =21) null objects connected to plexus. In CS6 and CC I was not able to wo= rk because it was so terribly slow. I ended up working in 5.5 where perfo= rmance was just perfect. Exactly the same plexus setup. I tried things li= ke turning off the cache indicator (which sound like a voodoo-solution to= me) but I did not find a solution in CS6 and CC. =20 > Greetings from Cologne. > =46ritz > =20 > Am 13.12.13 12:51, schrieb =46rederich Munch: > > Turned off keyframe-motion-trails=3F > > =20 > > To: AE-List=40media-motion.tv (mailto:AE-List=40media-motion.tv) > > =46rom: chris=40chriszwar.com (mailto:chris=40chriszwar.com) > > Date: =46ri, 13 Dec 2013 21:42:16 +1100 > > Subject: Re: =5BAE=5D Sluggish performance with many nulls and lights= > > =20 > > On 11/12/2013, at 5:53 PM, adam mercado wrote: > > > Chris, did you ever get to the bottom of this=3F Did your experienc= e improve=3F Just curious > > =20 > > =20 > > No. I am fairly certain it's a bug / unfortunate behaviour with the = caching system introduced with CS6- but that's just a gut feeling, no har= d evidence. =20 > > =20 > > I should try it with CS5 and see what the difference it. I've used C= S5 for years and have worked with comps that have over 1000 layers in the= m. I'm used to importing scenes from 3D apps with lots of nulls. It's o= nly since using CS6 that I've seen this behaviour. =20 > > I always feel reluctant to submit bug reports when I'm not using the = current release. I know that Todd has said that CC fixed a lot of bugs, = but I don't have a copy to compare. > > =20 > > I've been working with a few other comps that have lots of layers (ro= ughly 200) and expressions and haven't had as many issues with them. =20 > > =20 > > If I find some spare time - very unlikely - I will experiment some mo= re because it's very frustrating when it happens=21 =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > -Chris > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > On Dec 3, 2013, at 1:25 PM, pixelbot=40comcast.net (mailto:pixelbot= =40comcast.net) wrote: =20 > > > > are these nulls all different solids - so that you have 200 solid= s or have you tried changing all the different nulls to one solid=3F just= a thought. =20 > > > > =20 > > > > Timt =20 > > > > =20 > > > > On Tuesday, December 3, 2013 at 3:17 AM, Chris Zwar wrote: > > > > =20 > > > > > Had a really slow tedious day today and am looking for suggesti= ons. After Effects (CS6) just gets really sluggish and unresponsive when = working with big projects. Sometimes it can sit there for minutes, doing = nothing, except spinning the stupid beach ball every few seconds. > > > > > =20 > > > > > =46or example - today I imported a maya scene. 30 seconds long,= 1 camera and about 200 nulls. The nulls are static, so only the camera h= as keyframes. After Effects just sits there and stops, every mouse click = prompting a beach ball that spins for a few seconds. Simply opening the f= ile, selecting a few nulls and complying them into a new composition took= about 40 minutes - it should have taken a few seconds. =20 > > > > > =20 > > > > > Despite the tedium I tried several things to fix the dreadful p= erformance and nothing worked. =20 > > > > > =20 > > > > > The obvious things like quitting and reopening, and then trying= rebooting, did nothing. Caps lock makes no difference - even though the = scene is only nulls so there's nothing to preview anyway. Turning the lay= er visibility on and off also made no difference. I emptied all the cache= s in case it was a disk fragmentation issue. Ram didn't seem to be a prob= lem, with the activity monitor reporting I had 3 gig free. I tried toggli= ng the hardware acceleration on and off. Even turning off the visibility = of the nulls in the view options made no difference. After Effects just s= at there and beach balled constantly, even when I wasn't doing anything. = =20 > > > > > =20 > > > > > I converted the nulls to lights using David's script and the pr= oblem was the same - worse even. =20 > > > > > =20 > > > > > This is very difficult to understand. There is nothing to rende= r - no layers except nulls. All layers are turned off. The nulls are stat= ic and don't have keyframes. There are no hidden gotchas like motion blur= , frame blending or depth of field. No plugins. Just 200 nulls and a came= ra and everything grinds to a halt. Even turning off the visibility of th= e lights and nulls makes no difference - so even with nothing to display = After Effects is just sitting there and beach balling, taking a minute to= respond to each mouse click. =20 > > > > > =20 > > > > > If I delete most of the nulls / lights then performance will su= ddenly improve. It's like there's a hidden threshold for the number of nu= lls and lights After Effects can handle, and once you go over it the perf= ormance falls off a cliff. I have worked on compositions with almost 2000= layers - all with masks, effects and expressions applied, so I don't und= erstand why a few nulls or some lights can practically break the applicat= ion... =20 > > > > > =20 > > > > > Any insight=3F Or even sympathy from those who've experienced s= imilar things=3F It's driving me insane=E2=80=A6 =20 > > > > > =20 > > > > > =20 > > > > > -Chris =20 > > =20 > =20 --52ab5cb8_2ae8944a_4cd3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Hello =46ritz,

It is always much better performanc= e wise to use lights instead of nulls for Plexus, especially in CS6. You = can use the Null Swapp= er script for that.

regards,
Satya= .
=20

On =46riday, December = 13, 2013 at 6:22 AM, =46ritz Gnad wrote:

=20 =20 =20 Hi Chris,
have the same impression. I was working on a project that involved 25 (=21) null objects connected to plexus. In CS6 and CC I was not able to work because it was so terribly slow. I ended up working in 5.5 where performance was just perfect. Exactly the same plexus setup. I tried things like turning off the cache indicator (which sound like a voodoo-solution to me) but I did not find a solution in CS6 and CC.
Greetings from Cologne.
=46ritz

Am 13.12.13 12:51, schrieb =46rederich Munch:
=20
Turned off keyframe-motion-trails=3F

To: AE-Lis= t=40media-motion.tv
=46rom: chris=40ch= riszwar.com
Date: =46ri, 13 Dec 2013 21:42:16 +1100
Subject: Re: =5BAE=5D Sluggish performance with many nulls and lights

On 11/12/2013, at 5:53 PM, adam mercado <adam=40influxx= .com> wrote:
Chris, did you eve= r get to the bottom of this=3F Did your experience improve=3F J= ust curious

No.  I am fairly certain it's a bug / unfortunate behaviour with the caching system introduced with CS6- but that's just a gut feeling, no hard evidence.  

I should try it with CS5 and see what the difference it.  I've used CS5 for years and have worked with comp= s that have over 1000 layers in them.  I'm used to impor= ting scenes from 3D apps with lots of nulls.  It's only sin= ce using CS6 that I've seen this behaviour.
I always feel reluctant to submit bug reports when I'm not using the current release.  I know that Todd has s= aid that CC fixed a lot of bugs, but I don't have a copy to compare.

I've been working with a few other comps that have lots of layers (roughly 200) and expressions and haven't had as many issues with them.

If I find some spare time - very unlikely - I will experiment some more because it's very frustrating when it happens=21


-Chris

On Dec 3, 2013, at 1:25 PM, pixelbot=40comcast.= net wrote:

are these nulls all different solids - so that you have 200 solids or have you tried changing all the different nulls to one solid=3F= just a thought.

Timt

On Tuesday, D= ecember 3, 2013 at 3:17 AM, Chris Zwar wrote:

Had a really slow tedious day today and am looking for suggestions. After Effects (CS6) just gets really sluggish and unresponsive when working with big projects. Sometimes it can sit there for minutes, doing nothing, except spinning the stupid beach ball every few seconds.<= /div>

=46or example - today I imported a may= a scene. 30 seconds long, 1 camera and about 200 nulls. The nulls are static, so only the camera has keyframes. After Effects just sits there and stops, every mouse click prompting a beach ball that spins for a few seconds. Simply opening the file, selecting a few nulls and complying them into a new composition took about 40 minutes - it should have taken a few seconds.

Despite the tedium I tried several things to fix the dreadful performance and nothing worked.

The obvious things like quitting and reopening, and then trying rebooting, did nothing. Caps lock makes no difference - even though the scene is only nulls so there's nothing to preview anyway. Turning the layer visibility on and off also made no difference. I emptied all the caches in case it was a disk fragmentation issue. Ram didn't seem to be a problem, with the activity monitor reporting I had 3 gig free. I tried toggling the hardware acceleration on and off. Even turning off the visibility of the nulls in the view options made no difference. After Effects just sat there and beach balled constantly, even when I wasn't doing anything.

I converted the nulls to lights using David's script and the problem was the same - worse even.

This is very difficult to understand. There is nothing to render - no layers except nulls. All layers are turned off. The nulls are static and don't have keyframes. There are no hidden gotchas like motion blur, frame blending or depth of field. No plugins. Just 200 nulls and a camera and everything grinds to a halt. Even turning off the visibility of the lights and nulls makes no difference - so even with nothing to display After Effects is just sitting there and beach balling, taking a minute to respond to each mouse click.

If I delete most of the nulls / lights then performance will suddenly improve. It's like there's a hidden threshold for the number of nulls and lights After Effects can handle, and once you go over it the performance falls off a cliff. I have worked on compositions with almost 2000 layers - all with masks, effects and expressions applied, so I don't understand why a few nulls or some lights can practically break the application...

Any insight=3F Or even sympathy from those who've experienced similar things=3F= It's driving me insane=E2=80=A6


-Chris



=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20

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