Return-Path: Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.195] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5319264 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 16 Dec 2013 20:52:31 +0100 Received: from [10.1.1.211] (71-13-195-18.static.eucl.wi.charter.com [71.13.195.18]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus2) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LpKbF-1VMbIj2zyf-00fiGp; Mon, 16 Dec 2013 14:55:22 -0500 From: Steve Oakley Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C2E9D2E0-FBB5-48A6-9CA1-FD6AE6C2BCAA" Message-Id: <771C21EE-E9D9-48EF-85DD-D390BB6D2891@practicali.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1822\)) Subject: Re: [AE] [AE] When time for 4K TV/video Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 13:55:20 -0600 References: To: After Effects Mail List In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1822) X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:Nj8ZAOOFFabReuP7X4w1Ra656EnpzCUyEfMf7QJOHwO dlQMPvPpGV+irVfE6Y79rsrGRdcuDWBmKmyn5vS+W3grc9zJdQ m5XK7LVt3XWr8TBg7VZusBi8mOqKnGxOdz7jhdixshlkROttDm tBbYUTK20brjiHXxLV6j7dulKEXVpYnNy2JdY6MoETsyLgI9Es 2WT3+lqvPAPVT7RKFIRRVI2so8fKmbqm8sKORtqgNs0e3h8qeP U0iGHjoSEVXfCh/g+oNyjG7V+9XCwNXieudAQlvLbKV6O1cLdE 5KIaMCjWXlSrNboo00nPvAueGY+qCOIIP7u2aPBh5rFr5krKkz KIGoQgMRfFmXHbzuDYDvTRHnUh9EEC+5mzLU4ANKLTNJXDAnAy rOFyOizffwF2g== --Apple-Mail=_C2E9D2E0-FBB5-48A6-9CA1-FD6AE6C2BCAA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 could be your ISP messing around / not playing nice with netflix = packets. I have a piddly 7mbit DSL at the house and it works fine most = of the time. back to 4K. h.265 is the bandwidth answer to get things back inline = with the current crappy US internet most of us are stuck with.=20 as for if to adopt 4K the question is simple. Does your work now have = any shelf life 5-10 years from now ? if yes, start in 4K. if not, don't = worry about it. Thats how I was an early HD adaptor and its paid for = itself rather well. I am still using shots from those first shoots on = current client projects. if they had been shot in SD they'd be useless. = It also depends on if you are a leader in your market that tends to set = the bar for local production, or not. I very much drove the local = market in that respect. so to look at it purely in terms of consumer adoption rates it may not = be the right factor to look at. it all depends on where its going. HD = adoption is now at 70 or 80% of the market thanks to cheap panels with = lower power consumption compared to big TV's.=20 S On Dec 16, 2013, at 1:31 PM, Jim Curtis wrote: > Interesting. I have 3x DSL (24 Mb down; 3 up), and I view Netflix = through my BR player and ethernet. I get a few buffering pauses on most = programs, generally right at the beginning; some times later on into the = show. Looks pretty good generally, except in dissolves and fades, which = are blocky. >=20 > Amazon Prime HD slightly worse. I also see many last frames repeated = prior to cuts. Strange, annoying, and probably not even noticed by most = people. >=20 > Both services seem to analyze my connection speed, and adjust quality = to suit. That might account for the difference in our viewing = experiences. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Dec 16, 2013, at 1:23 PM, brian@totaltraining.com wrote: >=20 >> That first statement is not true here; Netflix HD looks much better = than any broadcast station on our system... I use a PS3 or Apple TV as a = Netflix host, and am comparing it with Verizon HD... the Netflix stream = has better detail (especially in the shadows) and less noise in general = than broadcast. It's still not Blu-Ray, but it ain't bad. >> =20 >> I do have a very fat internet pipe into the house so I'm sure that = has something to do with the quality. >>=20 >> Brian >> =20 >> ------ Original Message ------ >> From: "Jim Curtis" >> To: "After Effects Mail List" >> Sent: 12/16/2013 2:12:44 PM >> Subject: Re: [AE] When time for 4K TV/video >>> What they now call HD over Netflix (for example) is a joke as it is = now. Fiber or satellite will be mandatory for real-time broadcast (and = not slow download to a local server as with the current Sony 4K), and it = could be decades before everybody has either. Hopefully not satellite, = because those antennae are visual blights on our landscape. >>>=20 >>> Significant available content would be important to me, too. >>>=20 >>> To me, HD isn't just about pixels=85 it's also about not seeing = compression artifacts. I don't consider it HD if it's upscaled or = blocky or time-smeared. But,what do I know? >>>=20 >>> But, to the OP, the time to upgrade your gear IMO is when your = clients are demanding it, and not a second sooner (unless you just like = being the first kid on your block to have it, for which you pay a = premium).=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Dec 16, 2013, at 11:08 AM, adam mercado wrote: >>>=20 >>>> =46rom what I understand, even basic HD uptake amongst general = consumers has been pitifully slow, so I don't expect 4k to become a = player anytime soon. I also heard 3D TVs are already on their way out, = as they flopped in the marketplace. Joe Consumer is neither interested = nor educated enough to appreciate the difference. Big screen =3D better = picture and that is all. If it takes off it will be with niche, experts = and hobbyists. Just my speculation. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Adam Mercado >>>> Influxx Media Production >>>> Fullerton, CA >>>>=20 >>>> Moving Images. For Business >>>> 714=B0928=B09896 >>>> http://www.influxx.com/ >>>> http://www.twitter.com/influxx >>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/influxx >>>> http://influxx.tumblr.com/archive >>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/influxx >>>>=20 >>>>=20 --Apple-Mail=_C2E9D2E0-FBB5-48A6-9CA1-FD6AE6C2BCAA Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 could = be your ISP messing around / not playing nice with netflix packets. I = have a piddly 7mbit DSL at the house and it works fine most of the = time.

back to 4K.  h.265 is the bandwidth answer = to get things back inline with the current crappy US internet most of us = are stuck with. 

as for if to adopt 4K the = question is simple. Does your work now have any shelf life 5-10 years = from now ? if yes, start in 4K. if not, don't worry about it. Thats how = I was an early HD adaptor and its paid for itself rather well. I am = still using shots from those first shoots on current client projects. if = they had been shot in SD they'd be useless. It also depends on if you = are a leader in your market that tends to set the bar for local = production, or  not. I very much drove the local market in that = respect.

so to look at it purely in terms of = consumer adoption rates it may not be the right factor to look at. it = all depends on where its going. HD adoption is now at 70 or 80% of the = market thanks to cheap panels with lower power consumption =  compared to big = TV's. 

S

On Dec = 16, 2013, at 1:31 PM, Jim Curtis <jpcurtis@me.com> wrote:

Interesting.  I have 3x = DSL (24 Mb down; 3 up), and I view Netflix through my BR player and = ethernet.  I get a few buffering pauses on most programs, generally = right at the beginning; some times later on into the show.  Looks = pretty good generally, except in dissolves and fades, which are = blocky.

Amazon Prime HD slightly worse.  I = also see many last frames repeated prior to cuts.  Strange, = annoying, and probably not even noticed by most = people.

Both services seem to analyze my = connection speed, and adjust quality to suit.  That might account = for the difference in our viewing = experiences.




On Dec 16, 2013, at 1:23 PM, brian@totaltraining.com = wrote:

jpcurtis@me.com>
To: = "After Effects Mail List" <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Sent: 12/16/2013 2:12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AE] When = time for 4K TV/video
What = they now call HD over Netflix (for example) is a joke as it is now. =  Fiber or satellite will be mandatory for real-time broadcast (and = not slow download to a local server as with the current Sony 4K), and it = could be decades before everybody has either.  Hopefully not = satellite, because those antennae are visual blights on our = landscape.

Significant available content would be = important to me, too.

To me, HD isn't just about = pixels=85 it's also about not seeing compression artifacts.  I = don't consider it HD if it's upscaled or blocky or time-smeared. =  But,what do I know?

But, to the OP, the = time to upgrade your gear IMO is when your clients are demanding it, and = not a second sooner (unless you just like being the first kid on your = block to have it, for which you pay a = premium). 


On Dec 16, 2013, = at 11:08 AM, adam mercado <adam@influxx.com> = wrote:

=46rom what I understand, even = basic HD uptake amongst general consumers has been pitifully slow, so I = don't expect 4k to become a player anytime soon. I also heard 3D TVs are = already on their way out, as they flopped in the marketplace. Joe = Consumer is neither interested nor educated enough to appreciate the = difference. Big screen =3D better picture and that is all. If it takes = off it will be with niche, experts and hobbyists. Just my = speculation.

<= /div>

= --Apple-Mail=_C2E9D2E0-FBB5-48A6-9CA1-FD6AE6C2BCAA--