Return-Path: Received: from mail-qa0-f51.google.com ([209.85.216.51] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5319279 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Mon, 16 Dec 2013 21:08:27 +0100 Received: by mail-qa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id o15so1891033qap.3 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 2013 12:11:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=totaltraining.com; s=google; h=from:to:subject:date:content-type:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:reply-to:user-agent; bh=4BX4GQv6SdSM8qaS7PHURBEnrgL4zGpRY+SMyRbIPy4=; b=S1hoRwTNuRxoh7nlItrCnggKSYXmipwl+8GCpNYH64MCPT4s+0Jmr83jwh58Jtiqyb L79u3+hsGfvPLsOB+OcQvzK5nDzPS9p/aJY6PXsUMWqMLiiRUzsNEXlDDZys2Z6I9U/K xxYElLtWpCaxtf6ElPHu4wZnhIzKQeurfBEw0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:content-type:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:reply-to:user-agent; bh=4BX4GQv6SdSM8qaS7PHURBEnrgL4zGpRY+SMyRbIPy4=; b=AntR/RPKZ6OYrXF2A64vLiPSU5XhDjRsqRkwFH6WdJxw35fHUn7L/w8PJ3jTi6Bw+H JoDfo8dT7WsRqsrVQz3EWFvS/yKdSy6+d6JFQnvzU11IWC6GvpMd5HRuDUiECSm7nMZJ hAiadIVxIlFYUWhf+lF0YkBO/laihWQjcmrQD1F1aHww1nxA/wlupGveSSnOFOnh97ky 5ItIkSMOokA6VCI/oeIoTEXPa0Jz62Ow+LSWlt2tsMA5wKtq18mjNLiNPRotmCKtwi4n dHJYvT5t4YLOhAQ9oKGPjRYb9gNUqb8IvcCvJ6WWFds7/A0dzSy1ZqWgcMD2YK4cIBiU 8Xcw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkm6Tl5vL/+pCu2rOjcLJyRdzdMJA5VbA2zzfscCwDvLOiZskGAKwd6oh9Y+Lz/ocZYgQuR X-Received: by 10.224.147.208 with SMTP id m16mr36027296qav.21.1387224679806; Mon, 16 Dec 2013 12:11:19 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.1.17] (pool-108-41-82-35.nycmny.fios.verizon.net. [108.41.82.35]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id n14sm48421082qav.8.2013.12.16.12.11.17 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 16 Dec 2013 12:11:18 -0800 (PST) From: brian@totaltraining.com To: "After Effects Mail List" Subject: Re[2]: [AE] [AE] When time for 4K TV/video Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 20:11:24 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------=_MB8E2C39AE-DB6F-4CDF-B75B-0384822688DB" In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: brian@totaltraining.com User-Agent: eM_Client/5.0.19406.0 --------=_MB8E2C39AE-DB6F-4CDF-B75B-0384822688DB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8 Yeah, I'm very fortunate to have a stead 75 down and 35 up, so it might=20 have something to do with it. When my wife and I were binge-watching "Breaking Bad" to catch up with=20 the last half of the final season, I was stunned when we started=20 watching live how much worse the AMC broadcast version looked. Very=20 crunchy and contrasty. However, I can confirm that Amazon video is still generally-poor=20 quality. Also, Apple's compression is consistently excellent. Brian ------ Original Message ------ From: "Jim Curtis" To: "After Effects Mail List" Sent: 12/16/2013 2:31:32 PM Subject: Re: [AE] [AE] When time for 4K TV/video >Interesting. I have 3x DSL (24 Mb down; 3 up), and I view Netflix=20 >through my BR player and ethernet. I get a few buffering pauses on=20 >most programs, generally right at the beginning; some times later on=20 >into the show. Looks pretty good generally, except in dissolves and=20 >fades, which are blocky. > >Amazon Prime HD slightly worse. I also see many last frames repeated=20 >prior to cuts. Strange, annoying, and probably not even noticed by=20 >most people. > >Both services seem to analyze my connection speed, and adjust quality=20 >to suit. That might account for the difference in our viewing=20 >experiences. > > > > >On Dec 16, 2013, at 1:23 PM, brian@totaltraining.com wrote: > >>That first statement is not true here; Netflix HD looks much better=20 >>than any broadcast station on our system... I use a PS3 or Apple TV as= =20 >>a Netflix host, and am comparing it with Verizon HD... the Netflix=20 >>stream has better detail (especially in the shadows) and less noise in= =20 >>general than broadcast. It's still not Blu-Ray, but it ain't bad. >> >>I do have a very fat internet pipe into the house so I'm sure that has= =20 >>something to do with the quality. >> >>Brian >> >>------ Original Message ------ >>From: "Jim Curtis" >>To: "After Effects Mail List" >>Sent: 12/16/2013 2:12:44 PM >>Subject: Re: [AE] When time for 4K TV/video >>>What they now call HD over Netflix (for example) is a joke as it is=20 >>>now. Fiber or satellite will be mandatory for real-time broadcast=20 >>>(and not slow download to a local server as with the current Sony=20 >>>4K), and it could be decades before everybody has either. Hopefully=20 >>>not satellite, because those antennae are visual blights on our=20 >>>landscape. >>> >>>Significant available content would be important to me, too. >>> >>>To me, HD isn't just about pixels=E2=80=A6 it's also about not seeing= =20 >>>compression artifacts. I don't consider it HD if it's upscaled or=20 >>>blocky or time-smeared. But,what do I know? >>> >>>But, to the OP, the time to upgrade your gear IMO is when your=20 >>>clients are demanding it, and not a second sooner (unless you just=20 >>>like being the first kid on your block to have it, for which you pay=20 >>>a premium). >>> >>> >>>On Dec 16, 2013, at 11:08 AM, adam mercado wrote: >>> >>>>From what I understand, even basic HD uptake amongst general=20 >>>>consumers has been pitifully slow, so I don't expect 4k to become a=20 >>>>player anytime soon. I also heard 3D TVs are already on their way=20 >>>>out, as they flopped in the marketplace. Joe Consumer is neither=20 >>>>interested nor educated enough to appreciate the difference. Big=20 >>>>screen =3D better picture and that is all. If it takes off it will be= =20 >>>>with niche, experts and hobbyists. Just my speculation. >>>> >>>> >>>>Adam Mercado >>>>Influxx Media Production >>>>Fullerton, CA >>>> >>>>Moving Images. For Business >>>>714=C2=B0928=C2=B09896 >>>>http://www.influxx.com/ >>>>http://www.twitter.com/influxx >>>>http://www.linkedin.com/in/influxx >>>>http://influxx.tumblr.com/archive >>>>http://www.flickr.com/photos/influxx >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Dec 16, 2013, at 4:51 AM, Greg Balint wrote: >>>> >>>>>As an owner of a 1080p home theater projector as my main TV, with a= =20 >>>>>135" screen and 1gb fiber optic ISP. I cannot welcome a new 4k=20 >>>>>overlord soon enough. >>>>> >>>>>I'd expect places like mine and also wherever Google fiber is=20 >>>>>installed will first start toying with 4k on demand videos to see=20 >>>>>the usage patterns, etc. But I'd expect it'd be at least another=20 >>>>>2-3 years before it is more common place or at least more of a=20 >>>>>household word. >>>>> >>>>>///Greg Balint >>>>>//Art Director / Motion Graphics Designer >>>>>/321.514.4839 >>>>>delRAZOR.com/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On Dec 16, 2013 7:44 AM, "Anders Sundstedt" = =20 >>>>>wrote: >>>>>>Thanks Mylenium, >>>>>> >>>>>>I will read Stu=E2=80=99s article. >>>>>> >>>>>>They recently started advertising a 4K TV for sale on UK=20 >>>>>>television, so I was thinking, what would they be able to use it=20 >>>>>>for at the moment. >>>>>> >>>>>>Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>>Anders >>>>>> >>>>>>From: mylenium@mylenium.de >>>>>>Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 12:38 PM >>>>>>To: After Effects Mail List >>>>>>Subject: Re: [AE] When time for 4K TV/video >>>>>> >>>>>>You might want to read Stu Maschwitz' "4k in the home" article or=20 >>>>>>so.... It won't necessarily be better in terms what you actually=20 >>>>>>will see and so far no major broadcaster has announced any firm=20 >>>>>>plans. I believe they will use it to some effect during the soccer= =20 >>>>>>world championships for crop & pan to HD, but beyond that I would=20 >>>>>>think 4k will be mostly a production format for some time. It's=20 >>>>>>kind this weird situation where on a reasonably sized home screen=20 >>>>>>you won't be able to see much of a difference because your eye=20 >>>>>>can't keep up and compression will eradicate some of the sharpness= =20 >>>>>>while at the same time only so many people will even have a flat/=20 >>>>>>condo/ room in their house where they could sit far enough from=20 >>>>>>the screen to actually draw benefits from 4k. Stu nails those=20 >>>>>>points perfectly... >>>>>>Mylenium >>>>>>[Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, ange sur terre] >>>>>>----------------------------------------- >>>>>>http://www.mylenium.de/ >>>>>>>Anders Sundstedt hat am 16. Dezember 2013= =20 >>>>>>>um 13:28 geschrieben: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Hi, >>>>>>>I am curious to know when you think 4K TV will become popular and= =20 >>>>>>>when/what channels and what TV boxes will actually start=20 >>>>>>>broadcasting 4K. >>>>>>>I am also curious on how you would buy a 4K film, what home use=20 >>>>>>>formats and players would support this at the moment if any? >>>>>>>Same with internet/YouTube, when do you think something better=20 >>>>>>>than 1080p will be an option? >>>>>>>I have two reasons for asking this: 1) When is it time to=20 >>>>>>>consider making my animations in 4K, 2) when would it be any idea= =20 >>>>>>>to upgrade my TV from a 1080p to a 4K tv. >>>>>>>Thanks >>>>>>>Anders Sundstedt >>>>>>>http://sundstedt.co.uk/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> > --------=_MB8E2C39AE-DB6F-4CDF-B75B-0384822688DB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Yeah, I'm very fortunate to have a stead 75 down and 35 up, so it migh= t have something to do with it.
 
When my wife and I were binge-watching "Breaking Bad" to catch up with= the last half of the final season, I was stunned when we started watching= live how much worse the AMC broadcast version looked. Very crunchy and = contrasty.
 
However, I can confirm that Amazon video is still generally-poor quali= ty. Also, Apple's compression is consistently excellent.
 
Brian
 
------ Original Message ------
From: "Jim Curtis" <jpcurtis@me.= com>
To: "After Effects Mail List" <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Sent: 12/16/2013 2:31:32 PM
Subject: Re: [AE] [AE] When time for 4K TV/video
Interesti= ng.  I have 3x DSL (24 Mb down; 3 up), and I view Netflix through my= BR player and ethernet.  I get a few buffering pauses on most program= s, generally right at the beginning; some times later on into the show. =  Looks pretty good generally, except in dissolves and fades, which = are blocky.=20

Amazon Prime HD slightly worse.  I also see many last frames repe= ated prior to cuts.  Strange, annoying, and probably not even noticed= by most people.

Both services seem to analyze my connection speed, and adjust quality= to suit.  That might account for the difference in our viewing experi= ences.




On Dec 16, 2013, at 1:23 PM, brian@totaltraining.com wrote:

That first statement is not true here; Netflix HD looks much better= than any broadcast station on our system... I use a PS3 or Apple TV as = a Netflix host, and am comparing it with Verizon HD... the Netflix stream= has better detail (especially in the shadows) and less noise in general= than broadcast. It's still not Blu-Ray, but it ain't bad.
 
I do have a very fat internet pipe into the house so I'm sure that = has something to do with the quality.

Brian
 
------ Original Message ------
From: "Jim Curtis" <jpcurtis@me.= com>
To: "After Effects Mail List" <AE-List@media-motion.tv>
Sent: 12/16/2013 2:12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AE] When time for 4K TV/video
What they= now call HD over Netflix (for example) is a joke as it is now.  Fiber= or satellite will be mandatory for real-time broadcast (and not slow downl= oad to a local server as with the current Sony 4K), and it could be decades= before everybody has either.  Hopefully not satellite, because those= antennae are visual blights on our landscape.=20

Significant available content would be important to me, too.

To me, HD isn't just about pixels=E2=80=A6 it's also about not seeing= compression artifacts.  I don't consider it HD if it's upscaled or= blocky or time-smeared.  But,what do I know?

But, to the OP, the time to upgrade your gear IMO is when your clients= are demanding it, and not a second sooner (unless you just like being the= first kid on your block to have it, for which you pay a premium). 


On Dec 16, 2013, at 11:08 AM, adam mercado <adam@influxx.com> wrote:

From what I understand, even basic HD uptake = amongst general consumers has been pitifully slow, so I don't expect 4k = to become a player anytime soon. I also heard 3D TVs are already on their= way out, as they flopped in the marketplace. Joe Consumer is neither inter= ested nor educated enough to appreciate the difference. Big screen =3D bett= er picture and that is all. If it takes off it will be with niche, experts= and hobbyists. Just my speculation.=20



On Dec 16, 2013, at 4:51 AM, Greg Balint wrote:

As an owner of a 1080p home theater projector as my main TV,= with a 135" screen and 1gb fiber optic ISP. I cannot welcome a new 4k over= lord soon enough.

I'd expect places like mine and also wherever Google fiber = is installed will first start toying with 4k on demand videos to see the= usage patterns, etc. But I'd expect it'd be at least another 2-3 years = before it is more common place or at least more of a household word.

///Greg Balint
//Art Director / Motion Graphics Designer/321.514.4839
delRAZOR.com/
&nb= sp;  

On Dec 16, 2013 7:44 AM, "Anders Sundstedt" <sundstedt@hotmail.com> wrote:=
Thanks Mylenium,
 
I will read Stu=E2=80=99s article.
 
They recently started advertising a 4K TV for sale on UK television,= so I was thinking, what would they be able to use it for at the moment.
 
Thanks,
 
Anders
 
Sent: Monday,= December 16, 2013 12:38 PM
Subject: Re:= [AE] When time for 4K TV/video
 
You might want to read Stu Maschwitz' "4k in the home" article or so..= .. It won't necessarily be better in terms what you actually will see and= so far no major broadcaster has announced any firm plans. I believe they= will use it to some effect during the soccer world championships for crop= & pan to HD, but beyond that I would think 4k will be mostly a product= ion format for some time. It's kind this weird situation where on a reasona= bly sized home screen you won't be able to see much of a difference because= your eye can't keep up and compression will eradicate some of the sharpnes= s while at the same time only so many people will even have a flat/ condo/= room in their house where they could sit far enough from the screen to = actually draw benefits from 4k. Stu nails those points perfectly...
Mylenium
[Pour Myl=C3=A8ne, ange sur terre]=  
----------------------------------------- 
= http://www.mylenium.de/
Anders Sundstedt <sun= dstedt@hotmail.com> hat am 16. Dezember 2013 um 13:28 geschrieben: 

Hi,
I am curious to know when you think 4K TV will become popular and when= /what channels and what TV boxes will actually start broadcasting 4K.
I am also curious on how you would buy a 4K film, what home use format= s and players would support this at the moment if any?
Same with internet/YouTube, when do you think something better than= 1080p will be an option?
I have two reasons for asking this: 1) When is it time to consider = making my animations in 4K, 2) when would it be any idea to upgrade my TV= from a 1080p to a 4K tv.
Thanks
Anders Sundstedt
<= /DIV>

 



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