Return-Path: Received: from mail-qc0-f178.google.com ([209.85.216.178] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5326080 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Sun, 22 Dec 2013 01:43:59 +0100 Received: by mail-qc0-f178.google.com with SMTP id i17so3674677qcy.23 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 16:47:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=WBAeuVnxoI8ojPrLgtnuMk6aznxjtAakLtLEew9ASy4=; b=jZQ2CidoS6HT1DiaALQAKum0e851ajy+/+T3iUIUNPsVDqzX45RhnkdKF6CNowAp7F emtHH7wMjlkIr3LkecZzEZSsHkm6e5aejNgrGcV35WXRINalxvmVUhJBc6EIhjhEPiEs 9LLKleCTVRHAFULIuShhiytqR4lwu+0m/kjgaJ/kwVOlU+a83gu0JZQQZegT0UsN1E4+ WzF1b8RwmJgXpLUrf2xB4OG0Bt33gwHgQal1RwDilOv6eL+bDEJPL0aA2h3RU7TLyQDU njshmQCRUhmqKvd/I3rU88XHx1jnKPo3QttXyxcDhRvuqNsU7l1zKN4hSZxOAU/XuCHZ 2BYw== X-Received: by 10.224.69.69 with SMTP id y5mr28403414qai.53.1387673221678; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 16:47:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.96.16.102 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 16:46:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Teddy Gage Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 19:46:21 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] (OT) New Mac Pro - Who's getting it? To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2fda8715d9e04ee14d992 --001a11c2fda8715d9e04ee14d992 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable James, you can do whatever you want, but don't misrepresent the facts. A custom PC with similar render numbers on many benchmarks than your new mac pro will actually run you closer to $1,200-1,500. You could literally buy three hex-core computers for the price of that single mac pro. In terms of render power, that's a far cry from "a couple hundred dollars" difference. Yes the Pro has many bespoke custom parts. But they are more or less matched to 90% by regular high end PC components. For example nobody "needs" ECC RAM at 200% markup or Xeon-class chips at 300% markup. Regular DDR4 RAM and i7 chips are just as good, if not faster, in many cases. You don't have to build it yourself, and you don't have to buy it from Dell or HP, who also charge a hefty markup closer to Apple's, which is where a lot of these inaccurate numbers are coming from. There are tons of mid-level workstation builders out there with great reliability and good warranties. Your justification is fine, I'm not here to tell you how to spend your money. But your comparison is simply not accurate if you understand computer hardware and benchmarks. On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 5:10 PM, James Culbertson wro= te: > I'm looking at buying a 6 core base processor, 512GB SSD, 32GB RAM, and > dual D700s (and AppleCare) for about $5500 + tax. Thunderbolt peripherals > extra of course. > > From what I can see an equivalent cost workstation PC isn't all that > different. Building one yourself is cheaper I assume but that's still not > really worth the time based on my hourly/daily rate. > > Then there is the cost of equivalent GPUs on the PC side. As I understand > it a D700 is pretty equivalent to a W9000 at over $3000/GPU. But even the > D300 is a pretty good deal. Someone correct me if I am wrong here. > > In any case, if there is a couple of hundred dollar premium (GPUs aside) > for having what I personally consider a superior system (knowing full wel= l > that what each of us considers a superior system varies immensely) and I > can pay for it on average with about 2 weeks of work... well, what's the > debate really about? > > James > > > On Dec 20, 2013, at 12:11 PM, S=F8ren Christensen wrote: > > > I was trying to configure a HP Z workstation and a Boxx workstation with > the same specs (cpu, gfx card etc)as the new mac pro. > They ticked in between 38-51% more expensive than a new mac pro. With > normal sata6 ssdnand with smaller category gfx cards (And off course pci= e > slots). > With one gfx card they where still expensiverl... > I find it quite odd that people are ranting about how expensive the mac i= s > maxed out when pc counterparts cost the same or a lot more for the same > configuration. > > In my case the mac pro comes as a blessing and the form factor is very > welcome. I do a lot of live visuals and virtual scenography where gpu > performance and multiple (more than 3) outputs is a must. And super fast > ssd speeds to handle xx amounts of realtime hd video layers a necessity. > This small wine-cooler-look-a-like design (Bodum, anyone?) fits in the > hand luggage. Touring with mac pros has become fun again :-) > > Looking forward to see some real world cpu and gpu tests. What has been > clear for a long time is that gpu power is the new 'black'. Lets hope tha= t > the all-in bet on opencl pays off. > > > Cheers, > S=F8ren > > > > > > > > > > |||| DESILENCE STUDIO > |||| www.dslnc.com - motion & interactivity > |||| +34 93 268 0953 / +34 61 555 9963 (mobile) > > |||| SOCIAL > |||| twitter.dslnc.com facebook.dslnc.com > > |||| SHOWREEL 2013 > |||| v5.dslnc.com/reel/ > > > > On 20 Dec 2013, at 20:20, dennis@reelsolutions.com wrote: > > You say "Not interested in starting any mac vs. pc debate..." Then > "I imagine they are mainly for rich nerds to show off?" ... Ok... > > > Count me in as a rich nerd I guess - I'll be buying one. I've never > regretted buying a Mac, when I've gotten a bad one (1 in 16+years, they'v= e > been great at correcting the problem). > > I've made a couple PC purchases I'd rather not go into... > > Why make an assumption how long it will take to get repaired? I had a > MacPro way out of warranty that had a power supply go bad; I guess they > didn't have the part because they gave me a brand new base model MacPro f= or > no charge at all, they didn't even charge for the diagnostic fee. (And th= ey > let me pay the difference to upgrade it to the fastest MacPro). What a > waste of money! > This was for a 4+ yr old machine, they weren't obligated to do anything. > Time to receive the new machine was about a week ( mainly because I > requested a non-stocked configuration). > > HP wants $3,749 for the 12 core Xeon chip, they're not cheap. > > 800.00 to upgrade from a 256GB SSD isn't bad considering it will do 1200 > MB/s. To match that speed, you can't really replicate it easily (RAID add= s > latency). > > mho... Dennis Wilkins > > > > --=20 _____________________________ VFX & Motion Graphic Artist teddygage dot com --001a11c2fda8715d9e04ee14d992 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=A0 =A0 =A0James, you can do whatever you want, but don= 9;t misrepresent the facts. A custom PC with similar render numbers on many= benchmarks than your new mac pro will actually run you closer to $1,200-1,= 500. You could literally buy three hex-core computers for the price of that= single mac pro. In terms of render power, that's a far cry from "= a couple hundred dollars" difference.=A0Yes the Pro has many bespoke c= ustom parts. But they are more or=A0less matched to 90% by regular high end= PC components. For example nobody "needs" ECC RAM at 200% markup= or Xeon-class chips at 300% markup. Regular DDR4 RAM and i7 chips are just= as good, if not faster, in many cases.=A0

=A0 =A0 =A0You don't have to build it yourself, and you = don't have to buy it from Dell or HP, who also charge a hefty markup cl= oser to Apple's, which is where a lot of these inaccurate numbers are c= oming from. There are tons of mid-level workstation builders out there with= great reliability and good warranties. Your justification is fine, I'm= not here to tell you how to spend your money. But your comparison is simpl= y not accurate if you understand computer hardware and benchmarks.=A0


O= n Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 5:10 PM, James Culbertson <albion@speakeasy.net<= /a>> wrote:
I&#= 39;m looking at buying=A0a 6 core base processor, 512GB SSD, 32GB RAM, and dual D700s (and AppleCare) for = about $5500 + tax. Thunderbolt peripherals extra of course.

From what I can see an equivalent cost workstation PC isn't all that = different. Building one yourself is cheaper I assume but that's still n= ot really worth the time based on my hourly/daily rate.

Then there is the cost of equivalent GPUs on the PC side. As I understand= it a D700 is pretty equivalent to a W9000 at over $3000/GPU. But even the = D300 is a pretty good deal. Someone correct me if I am wrong here.

In any case, if there is a couple of hundred dollar premium (GPUs aside) = for having what I personally consider a superior system (knowing full well = that what each of us considers a superior system varies immensely) and I ca= n pay for it on average with about 2 weeks of work... well, what's the = debate really about?

James

=

On Dec 20, 2013, at 12:11 PM, = S=F8ren Christensen wrote:


I was trying to configure a HP Z worksta= tion and a Boxx workstation with the same specs (cpu, gfx card etc)as the n= ew mac pro.
They ticked in between 38-51% more expensive than a new mac pro. With = normal sata6 ssdnand =A0with smaller category gfx cards (And off course pci= e slots).
With one gfx card they where still expensiverl...=
I find it quite odd that people are ranting about ho= w expensive the mac is maxed out when pc counterparts cost the same or a lo= t more for the same configuration.

In my case the mac pro comes as a blessing and the form factor is very= welcome. I do a lot of live visuals and virtual scenography where gpu perf= ormance and multiple (more than 3) outputs is a must. And super fast ssd sp= eeds to handle xx amounts of realtime hd video layers a necessity. This sma= ll wine-cooler-look-a-like =A0design (Bodum, anyone?) fits in the hand lugg= age. Touring with mac pros has become fun again :-)

Looking forward to see some real world cpu and gpu test= s. What has been clear for a long time is that gpu power is the new 'bl= ack'. Lets hope that the all-in bet on opencl pays off.


Cheers,
S=F8ren







Count me in as a rich nerd I guess - I'll be buyi= ng one. I've never regretted buying a Mac, when I've gotten a bad o= ne (1 in 16+years, they've been great at correcting the problem).

I've made a couple PC purchases I'd rather not = go into...=A0

Why make an assumption how long it w= ill take to get repaired? I had a MacPro way out of warranty that had a pow= er supply go bad; I guess they didn't have the part because they gave m= e a brand new base model MacPro for no charge at all, they didn't even = charge for the diagnostic fee. (And they let me pay the difference to upgra= de it to the fastest MacPro). What a waste of money!
This was for a 4+ yr old machine, they weren't obligated to do any= thing. Time to receive the new machine was about a week ( mainly because I = requested a non-stocked configuration).

HP wants $= 3,749 for the 12 core Xeon chip, they're not cheap.

800.00 to upgrade from a 256GB SSD isn't bad = considering it will do 1200 MB/s. To match that speed, you can't really= replicate it easily (RAID adds latency).

mho... D= ennis Wilkins





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VFX & Motion Graphic Artist
teddygage dot com
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