Return-Path: Received: from mail-qe0-f42.google.com ([209.85.128.42] verified) by media-motion.tv (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP-TLS id 5326088 for AE-List@media-motion.tv; Sun, 22 Dec 2013 02:10:25 +0100 Received: by mail-qe0-f42.google.com with SMTP id b4so4013297qen.1 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 17:13:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=59i8P8L9nAVkjKM9VnLi2rjN2Qi664zuc4HU9rY5YeQ=; b=p0LJnlzj7SiXQoLIWjnuAIN1HHV5RlVbwt/iRsH02mJKbDAwxPzB08eJ/OFDQ+8NM9 m7TPGwxi7w87W2b2zeuEGu5iSCD5vpC//ALtKcE4NID0cYn/byLfEwvOn8xc+Jsw86la zACsj56NbfesOx7BRKVpSlHtny+gos1KUMm2fXIdtQw3ncQ6IcId0WbTtqHXACn82D5Y BfNfV/QWjZr4OBxpu2/mumRARmowQr2YBxQofPGu84YgMuaEAaP5hExJgzQTSNx8sm6c KFjQu9Wf9nmcrqwY0Ote7f67KLcVTNiGNgro90H1Yo1Em1TTAHN8OpkAH+ZuRFyvmYP7 t8VA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.124.74 with SMTP id t10mr28643023qar.40.1387674807270; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 17:13:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.236.68 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Dec 2013 17:13:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 19:13:27 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [AE] (OT) New Mac Pro - Who's getting it? From: Brian Behm To: After Effects Mail List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c29512f3820104ee153780 --001a11c29512f3820104ee153780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Teddy, has anyone ever told you that you wobble on the line between speaking your mind and being a bully? There's certainly room for talking about the pros and cons, but you pretty regularly get aggressive and negative. Take a deep breath. You've often got really valuable things to say, but you need to check your tone. It can be pretty off putting. Brian Behm On Saturday, December 21, 2013, Teddy Gage wrote: > James, you can do whatever you want, but don't misrepresent the > facts. A custom PC with similar render numbers on many benchmarks than yo= ur > new mac pro will actually run you closer to $1,200-1,500. You could > literally buy three hex-core computers for the price of that single mac > pro. In terms of render power, that's a far cry from "a couple hundred > dollars" difference. Yes the Pro has many bespoke custom parts. But they > are more or less matched to 90% by regular high end PC components. For > example nobody "needs" ECC RAM at 200% markup or Xeon-class chips at 300% > markup. Regular DDR4 RAM and i7 chips are just as good, if not faster, in > many cases. > > You don't have to build it yourself, and you don't have to buy it > from Dell or HP, who also charge a hefty markup closer to Apple's, which = is > where a lot of these inaccurate numbers are coming from. There are tons o= f > mid-level workstation builders out there with great reliability and good > warranties. Your justification is fine, I'm not here to tell you how to > spend your money. But your comparison is simply not accurate if you > understand computer hardware and benchmarks. > > > On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 5:10 PM, James Culbertson w= rote: > > I'm looking at buying a 6 core base processor, 512GB SSD, 32GB RAM, and > dual D700s (and AppleCare) for about $5500 + tax. Thunderbolt peripherals > extra of course. > > From what I can see an equivalent cost workstation PC isn't all that > different. Building one yourself is cheaper I assume but that's still not > really worth the time based on my hourly/daily rate. > > Then there is the cost of equivalent GPUs on the PC side. As I understand > it a D700 is pretty equivalent to a W9000 at over $3000/GPU. But even the > D300 is a pretty good deal. Someone correct me if I am wrong here. > > In any case, if there is a couple of hundred dollar premium (GPUs aside) > for having what I personally consider a superior system (knowing full wel= l > that what each of us considers a superior system varies immensely) and I > can pay for it on average with about 2 weeks of work... well, what's the > debate really about? > > James > > > On Dec 20, 2013, at 12:11 PM, S=F8ren Christensen wrote: > > > I was trying to configure a HP Z workstation and a Boxx workstation with > the same specs (cpu, gfx card etc)as the new mac pro. > They ticked in between 38-51% more expensive than a new mac pro. With > normal sata6 ssdnand with smaller category gfx cards (And off course pci= e > slots). > With one gfx card they where still expensiverl... > I find it quite odd that people are ranting about how expensive the mac i= s > maxed out when pc counterparts cost the same or a lot more for the same > configuration. > > In my case the mac pro comes as a blessing and the form factor is very > welcome. I do a lot of live visuals and virtual scenography where gpu > performance and multiple (more than 3) outputs is a must. And super fast > ssd speeds to handle xx amounts of realtime hd video layers a necessity. > This small wine-cooler-look-a-like design (Bodum, anyone?) fits in the > hand luggage. Touring with mac pros has become fun again :-) > > Looking forward to see some real world cpu and gpu tests. What has been > clear for a long time is that gpu power is the new 'black'. Lets hope tha= t > the all-in bet on opencl pays off. > > > Cheers, > S=F8ren > > > > > > > > > > |||| DESILENCE STUDIO > |||| www.dslnc.com - motion & interactivity > |||| +34 93 268 0953 / +34 61 555 9963 (mobile) > > |||| SOCIAL > ||| > > -- > _____________________________ > VFX & Motion Graphic Artist > teddygage dot com > --=20 not getting enough of my blather? check out http://flabbyironman.blogspot.com or my portfolio at http://behmcreative.com --001a11c29512f3820104ee153780 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Teddy, has anyone ever told you that you wobble on the line between speakin= g your mind and being=A0a bully?

There's certainly r= oom for talking about the pros and cons, but you pretty regularly get aggre= ssive and negative. Take a deep breath.=A0

You've often got really=A0valuable thi= ngs to say,=A0but you need to check your tone. It can be pretty off putting= .

Brian Behm


On Satur= day, December 21, 2013, Teddy Gage wrote:
=A0 =A0 =A0James, you can d= o whatever you want, but don't misrepresent the facts. A custom PC with= similar render numbers on many benchmarks than your new mac pro will actua= lly run you closer to $1,200-1,500. You could literally buy three hex-core = computers for the price of that single mac pro. In terms of render power, t= hat's a far cry from "a couple hundred dollars" difference.= =A0Yes the Pro has many bespoke custom parts. But they are more or=A0less m= atched to 90% by regular high end PC components. For example nobody "n= eeds" ECC RAM at 200% markup or Xeon-class chips at 300% markup. Regul= ar DDR4 RAM and i7 chips are just as good, if not faster, in many cases.=A0=

=A0 =A0 =A0You don't have to build it yourself, and you = don't have to buy it from Dell or HP, who also charge a hefty markup cl= oser to Apple's, which is where a lot of these inaccurate numbers are c= oming from. There are tons of mid-level workstation builders out there with= great reliability and good warranties. Your justification is fine, I'm= not here to tell you how to spend your money. But your comparison is simpl= y not accurate if you understand computer hardware and benchmarks.=A0


On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at= 5:10 PM, James Culbertson <albion@speakeasy.net> wrote:
I'm looking at buying= =A0a 6 core base processor, 512= GB SSD, 32GB RAM, and dual D700s (and AppleCare) for about $5500 + tax. Thu= nderbolt peripherals extra of course.

From what I can see an equivalent cost workstation PC isn't all that = different. Building one yourself is cheaper I assume but that's still n= ot really worth the time based on my hourly/daily rate.

Then there is the cost of equivalent GPUs on the PC side. As I understand= it a D700 is pretty equivalent to a W9000 at over $3000/GPU. But even the = D300 is a pretty good deal. Someone correct me if I am wrong here.

In any case, if there is a couple of hundred dollar premium (GPUs aside) = for having what I personally consider a superior system (knowing full well = that what each of us considers a superior system varies immensely) and I ca= n pay for it on average with about 2 weeks of work... well, what's the = debate really about?

James

=

On Dec 20, 2013, at 12:11 PM, S=F8ren Chris= tensen wrote:


I was trying to configure a HP Z workstation and a Bo= xx workstation with the same specs (cpu, gfx card etc)as the new mac pro.
They ticked in between 38-51% more expensive than a new mac pro. With = normal sata6 ssdnand =A0with smaller category gfx cards (And off course pci= e slots).
With one gfx card they where still expensiverl...=
I find it quite odd that people are ranting about how expensive t= he mac is maxed out when pc counterparts cost the same or a lot more for th= e same configuration.

In my case the mac pro comes as a blessing and the form factor is very= welcome. I do a lot of live visuals and virtual scenography where gpu perf= ormance and multiple (more than 3) outputs is a must. And super fast ssd sp= eeds to handle xx amounts of realtime hd video layers a necessity. This sma= ll wine-cooler-look-a-like =A0design (Bodum, anyone?) fits in the hand lugg= age. Touring with mac pros has become fun again :-)

Looking forward to see some real world cpu and gpu test= s. What has been clear for a long time is that gpu power is the new 'bl= ack'. Lets hope that the all-in bet on opencl pays off.


Cheers,
S=F8ren






--
_____________________________
VFX &= amp; Motion Graphic Artist
teddygage dot com


--
not getting enough of my blather?
chec= k out http://flabbyironman.bl= ogspot.com
or my portfolio at ht= tp://behmcreative.com

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